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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.04.23 01:36:00 -
[31]
cap skills @ 4
shield skills @ 4
electronics/engineering 4 minimum (barely fit standard lvl4 rig)
energy systems operations @ 4 (i think is the name?) for PDS II
weapon upgrades @ 4
shield upgrades decreases shield upgrade power need right? also @ 4 (away from game so cant check)
cald. bs @ 3 minimum
torps @ 3 minimum, 4 helps a lot with the tougher spawns, especially if you cant afford the more expensive siege launchers.
tactical shield manipulation @ 1 or higher - for active hardeners.
the skill to use nosf... energy transfer systems? or something? anyway enough for heavy NOS.
you can do it with less of the specific skills - some of my apoc-flying friends have been scrambling for a raven since nerf... torps @ 2, bs @ 2 and they still manage most missions without warping out overmuch... ofc they wouldnt attempt the bonus section in angel's extravaganza... but then from what i hear - too scared to go there myself atm - you need multiple bs to take that on.
if you look at the skill list above its not really that big. the only ones that take more than a couple of days are caldari bs and possibly torps 4.
provided you can put a checkmark next to every element of thaat list, can solo all lvl3s in a cruiser - no matter how long it takes, angel extra takes 3.5 hours in my maller and something like 5 in my omen - you get a friend to come along with you for the 1st few missions & you are cautious, you should be able to take them on. no accounting for user stupidity tho, almost lost one of my cruisers in lvl 3 Angel EX, because of overconfidence. 
knowing a few ppl who run lvl4s who you can poll for mission difficulty, and hence know which missions to decline while learning how to handle a bs in knife-edge situations, will ofc be invaluable.
if you hve a few ppl in system who will let you help them in their missions while you train those skills, youll get a *MUCH* better idea of what to expect.
the sort of focused firepower a lvl4 mission can bring onto your tank *if* you dont know what youre doing can take most if not all non-faction tanks down. learning to recognise when your tank is overwhelemed before youre out of shields, and weather you can shooot yourself out of gank-lock before you terminally break tank, are fundamental to lvl4 agent running. so are enemy recognition and target prioritising - especially knowing which of those pesky frigs scramble.
even tho youre not a kill-oriented character, the above character skills wont really take tooo far off your time. player skills are ofc, something else entirely. - i should mention that the cash youll make out of these odd kill lvl4s youll get will be very pleasant to your wallet
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 Originally by: Gnauton
It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.04.23 09:32:00 -
[32]
This thread demonstrates so many things that are wrong with the game right now.
The fact that 2 month old characters can 1) jump in a Raven, 2) use that Raven effectively, and 3) solo all L4 missions without batting an eye, is just wrong.
Aren't L4 missions supposed to be difficult? Aren't they supposed to require skill and experience to complete?
Where's the fun in the game if you can do what's supposed to be some of the most advanced parts of it after 2 months? What are people supposed to look forward to if things are this easy? Talk about killing long-term playability, why don't you.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.04.23 11:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: F'nog
This thread demonstrates so many things that are wrong with the game right now.
The fact that 2 month old characters can 1) jump in a Raven, 2) use that Raven effectively, and 3) solo all L4 missions without batting an eye, is just wrong.
Aren't L4 missions supposed to be difficult? Aren't they supposed to require skill and experience to complete?
Where's the fun in the game if you can do what's supposed to be some of the most advanced parts of it after 2 months? What are people supposed to look forward to if things are this easy? Talk about killing long-term playability, why don't you.
yep. raven runner can do it with a million sp if he only trains a few specific skills very high.
someone in an apoc better have 6 months of training gunnery unnder him, and even then hes going to have a hard time and lose ships.
if the coming missiles readjustement undermines the raven's ease of use in lvl4s - and it almost certainly will - i think we'll see many ppl's incomes drop like bricks.
for me, missions are a "job" and i use a raven cause atm it's the most efficent tool for the job. but i fly amarr for fun.
if the FoTM gets too bad, i'll just hop in that apoc. and lose a fair few ships, because im too new
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Originally by: Gnauton
It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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Sir Tidus
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Posted - 2005.04.23 11:21:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Sir Tidus on 23/04/2005 11:25:27
Edited by: Sir Tidus on 23/04/2005 11:24:19
I found out that i was ready to try some easier lvl 4 missions when i solo'd the bonus stage on lvl 3 guristas extravaganza in my dominix. I then kept rejecting lvl 4 missions every 4 hours (to keep standing) until i got a normal space missiong that i felt i could handle. Smoked it completely. Within the next two weeks i too k on every normal space mission, except mordus and completed them all, a few were tricky but i did them.
Solo'd a single spawn of 2x battleships, 19 cruisers and 4 frigates without warping out. Tank held long enough (dual large automated + 3 hardener) to kill off 3-4 cruisers and let the tank catch up.
BTW, this is with cruiser guns on the dominix and about 1 million skill points in the combat area
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Markie
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Posted - 2005.04.23 11:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Markie on 23/04/2005 11:39:39
There is no way in this world that a 2 mil sp character can take ALL lv 4 missions solo to use a quote walk in the park. NO WAY.
I find them easy for the most part, but, I have all the skills to tank and issue damage and 1.5 bil worth of ship. Are you realy telling me you can drop a 5 mil DG and a 2.75m raven on your own (for the record I had that on a assault mission)
added, but I build and sell Raven if and when you want a new one.
CCP hope you are reading this, as I belive most the patitions for loosing ships will be just this. And yes people I am ****ed with some of the comment with less SP people saying there simple as they are not, if you make a silly move you will be scrambled webbed and have a wall of shiny lights with your name on it.
When you can do an Angel Extragavansa solo in 1hr 20 mins then you mak say it's simple, If you have to (no offence intended) warp in and make a book mark then warp out and back to the BM you are not ready, if you have to warp away from a mission then you are not ready, if you can't afford to loose your ship, you are not ready, if you turn down missions because they are too hard, you are not ready. if you have to ask if you are ready THEN YOU ARE NOT READY!
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sbaker
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Posted - 2005.04.23 11:41:00 -
[36]
G-day all,
I guess I am abit like Hero123, I still on LvL 3 mission, I have done one LvL 4 mission, but i lost my raven to a bit lag  I been asking in local for players who are doing LvL3 missions in my system to come along and do a lvl 4 agent that is one jump away, but there is no one...my corp is minner corp if anyone is near jerma (domain space) pop in and say g-day...I really want to do a LVL 4 mission.
Sbaker
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Hero123
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Posted - 2005.04.23 12:47:00 -
[37]
OK gonna update you all now, for starters I have been playing about 9-10 months, which as it happens is how long it has taken me to scrimp and save for my raven.
anyone that says I dont deserve to fly it can F*cking jump, further I took the earlier advice and went on a 5 hour lvl 4 binge with two of my corp mates, where I proudly took out multiple bs upto a 2.5 mill.
I would just like to say my tank held out for what it is worth however I was with two other ravens and we took it in turns to kill the groups,dunno what it would be like solo :/.
My conclusion is I believe there is a chance I could do lvl 4's however I am not prepared to risk my raven that took so long to save for on a chance, I am moving from amarr to caldari and will start again from lvl 1's and when i can do lvl 4's with the caldari navy i will have a go solo.
Till then gonna keep doing them in groups cause it is ALOT of fun.
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Markie
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Posted - 2005.04.23 12:55:00 -
[38]
1 question, 9 months 2.5 mil sp? what you been doing, eating them?
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Hero123
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Posted - 2005.04.23 13:11:00 -
[39]
not sure what u mean, but if it's y haven't i got more well i didn't play for a month or 2.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.04.23 14:28:00 -
[40]
no need to get angry heh...
i prefer trying missions when im not ready. it more of a challenge
lvl2 in a punisher with 500k skills?
lvl3 in an omen when i couldnt use t2 reppers or active hardeners?
yep. it was hard. took damn near forever. and it was fun 
ive only got large energy turret 1 and did a few of the easier lvl4 realspace in my armageddon w. beams.
so what if i cant uber all of them? whoopity do you can do lvl3 angel extra in a bs. would you like a medal? im pretty sure i could do it too in my apoc 
i'll keep doing the ones i think i can do, and snub my nose at you griefers.
****
@hero. that's the way, groups 4tw, ignore these bitter old men here 
constantly put your abilities to the test now youre gonna do the cald. military line, by doing them with the smallest/weakest ship possible. for example: the easier lvl3s in a frigate.
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Originally by: Gnauton
It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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Tythran
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Posted - 2005.04.23 17:58:00 -
[41]
Level 4 missions are only different to lesser level missions, in that they inflict more damage on you. There are several things you should remember....
1. You are fighting AI, which means there are rules for you to use to your advantage.
2. Learn what damage types your opponents will inflict and defend accordingly.
3. Never target or attack first when you initially warp in. Several missions will have the NPCs regroup without attacking you, time to get to some range and then pick off one group at a time. Where the NPCs do attack you immediately, use your overview to target and shoot only those NPCs that are flashing red or yellow.
4. 9 times out of 10, the targets you should attack first will be the ones that target you first. This is usually the ships that will warp scramble you.
5. If using missiles, learn how many to fire at each type of NPC, this can save you time which could save your ship.
6. Always direct your ship towards an object you can warp to. Being able to run fast is often vital.
7. A speedy battleship does not exist, discard afterburners for more useful modules. You can always bookmark the loot and return in a fast ship, once the mission is completed.
8. Fit some warp core stabilisers for your first few missions. If you aren't sure what you are up against, ask in local, odds are someone will be able to advise you.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.04.24 03:04:00 -
[42]
yes, alagning is fundamental really...
i direct myself towards a gate and set my speed to what i find useful...
often 1m/s, just to keep alignement. if/when things start getting hairy i give it full speed...
that way if you see your tank is about to go termianlly you click on the object youre aligned to, and as soon as you click "warp to" youre instantly out of there. and i mean instantly. click and youre in warp.
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Originally by: Gnauton
It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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Kelso Bluebane
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Posted - 2005.04.24 08:19:00 -
[43]
Most of the advice offered here is spot on but i would like to add few ideas that I feel will help.You sound as though you have put most of your skills into the operation of the raven so as mentioned b4 anything allied to shield boosting and cap usage is a must.Caldari B/S to lv 4 also.
I would also ensure you could operate 6 heavy drones (they will save you more than once ).Missle skills should be as high a possible and the use of cruise is a must.Navigation skills would figure in my list also.If your not in a corp some refining skills would be useful for loot reprocessing.
I would highly recommend going along with friends for a good few missions, just to get the feel for each mission.Not sure but don't production agents give out huge hauling missions mostly so your going to have to get a big hauler as well.
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Markie
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Posted - 2005.04.24 11:18:00 -
[44]
Kelso, as allways the voice of reason. good advice from all.
Hope you well m8y
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2005.04.24 16:13:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Van Cleef on 24/04/2005 16:15:17
Quote:
Is it me or are people in a mad rush to join EVE and jump into a BS? Why can't CCP change the skills required to fly a BS to enclude Electronics 4 sig anals 4 nav 4 etc, this would ensure that when people get into a big ship they have the skills and knowledge to fly one, as when I lost my first BS I almost stopped playing.
Because CCP made Crusiers suck. If they gave Crusiers a bone and beefed them up maybe people would use them more often.
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Serve the State
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
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Posted - 2005.04.24 17:47:00 -
[46]
There is only one simple measure to know if you're ready for lvl 4.
Clearly you are using a Raven... are you ready to loose it in the mission and can you afford to replace it.
Then you are ready.
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.04.25 02:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Larsson7
I was on a lvl 4 Angel Extravaganza with a very experienced pilot yesterday and we both had to warp out twice.
For the bonus stage we took in THREE Ravens and two of us had to run and the other died.
Then you are doing SOMETHING wrong. On the bonus level 2 support ravens + a tank raven will totally obliterate any spawn you have to take on and by support I mean shield/energy transfer. There is no reason why you shouldnt be able to do the other parts with just 2.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2005.04.25 09:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Markie
Edited by: Markie on 20/04/2005 14:59:34As a favor you are welcome to join me on a LV4 mission if you want to see what they are made of and in turn I can advise you of my 1 fit tank that has not yet been broken and I use the same one for every mission, you intrested?
When ever I do missions my hauler ault keps getting message saying "unknown is attempting to warp scramble the battle ship Markie" so there is a very good reason for you to have a good long hard think about it.
I would be interested in doing some lvl4 missions with you in my raven if the offer is open. I'm in virtually the same position as that guy although I have completely neglected missions and can only do lvl2s. Which I hate and am just steaming through them in my caracal - they are so damn easy its ridiculous  - going from rat hunting in 0.2 systems with a kessie to lvl2s is not fun .
What do you think? (It will have to wait until my corporation has finished its war though - we were declared upon last night - EVE should be more fun starting tonight onwards - I personally can't wait until 20 to 7 tonight )
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Stop Whining!!!
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U'puauht
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Posted - 2005.04.25 11:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Markie
I am now in a good position where I can tackle any LV4 mission solo, apart from the bonus round on an extragavansa (can anyone solo it?)
Except for Angels Extravaganza I think every other Extravaganza bonus stage can be soloed. I know the Guristas one can for sure, and I've been told by mates that Serpentis ain't no big deal either.
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