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Peace Fox
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Posted - 2005.04.21 11:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Peace Fox on 21/04/2005 11:26:07
Dear POS-Owners :)
Everyone knows that problem: how do i get enough and regularly the fuel for my pos?
What is best?
- mine urself
- have expensive contracts
- buy even more expensive on the market
- build up a ice-mining division within the corp.
I wonder how u do that?
Thanks for discussion
Peace Fox
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Dantes Darkheart
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Posted - 2005.04.21 11:54:00 -
[2]
Hey Peace,
That is a question that I'm sure nearly 90% of corporations that choose to run a POS ask themselves and the answer depends on MANY variables. Ask yourself these questions:- The most important question IMHO is: What type of corporation are you? Mining, PVP or a mix.
- If mining, you can probably safely assume that you can easily mine all the ice you would need.
- If you're PVP only, forget it. Trust me when I say that ice mining will drive your PVPers insane with boredom.
- If your corp is a mix, you'll have to take a poll of your fellow corpmates and see if this is something they could do.
- If your POS will be able to produce a profit and you either can't mine all your ice or would rather be mining other more profitable ores, I would contract out the ice mining. There are corporations out there that will do this and I'm sure ice mining will only get more profitable.
- I don't buy ice on the market. Period. I typically fly between 10-15 regions looking at the market in each region and let me tell you, there are only a few times when you can find acceptable volumes of ice products at realistic prices. The market is just too unpredictable atm to rely on it providing you with all the ice you need.
- An ice-mining division is a solution but from the standpoint of morale, I would grab every miner I could that could ice mine for ice mining ops. This way, the op will take less time and everyone can get back to what they really want to do. If some people in your corp actually love ice mining, then an ice mining division is a very real possibility.
I hope this helps somewhat. My corporation has run the gambit on how we have achieved our ice products, so we've been there. 
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Deklein Resident/POS Manager/Uber Hauler
"I'm kept warm by my hatred of the POS implementation." |
Peace Fox
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Posted - 2005.04.21 12:12:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Peace Fox on 21/04/2005 12:14:06
Dantes, Thanks for ur clear thoughts!
Are there really corp's which would enter acceptables ice mining contracts?
Peace Fox
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Peace Fox
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Posted - 2005.04.21 13:40:00 -
[4]
BTW is it possible ot havest Ice with miner II? Or only with the mining barge?
If yes the nbr of ppl who can mine ice becomes small. Considering the ones who want to actually do it then teh nbr becomes really small.
Peace Fox
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.04.21 13:43:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Peace Fox
BTW is it possible ot havest Ice with miner II? Or only with the mining barge?
You can only mine ice with the ice harvester, which can only be fitted to mining barges.
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Dantes Darkheart
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Posted - 2005.04.21 14:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Peace Fox
Are there really corp's which would enter acceptables ice mining contracts?
Sure are, you just have to ask around.
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Deklein Resident/POS Manager/Uber Hauler
"I'm kept warm by my hatred of the POS implementation." |
Xron
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Posted - 2005.04.21 16:10:00 -
[7]
Going to be starting up a POS...well looking for a good spot soon. My corp is fairly small and we plan on doing a mix of mining our own ice and buying it. As I have yet to even start mining ice, what is everyone's opinion on keep a medium sized POS running constantly with a corp of 4 active people?
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voidvim
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Posted - 2005.04.21 17:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xron
Going to be starting up a POS...well looking for a good spot soon. My corp is fairly small and we plan on doing a mix of mining our own ice and buying it. As I have yet to even start mining ice, what is everyone's opinion on keep a medium sized POS running constantly with a corp of 4 active people?
I' do able it will take 1 per in large barge 1 hour a day to keep it runing, but thats just isotopes. your need 20 ice cubes and then some ozone and heavy water too.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=153485&page=1
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=172662
these to link could help
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Badshah
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Posted - 2005.04.21 18:04:00 -
[9]
I would love to get into full-time ice-mining. I currently have a retriever, and ice-harvesting V. I own a covetor (which I found at a fire-sale), and am training the last two levels of mining barge so I can fly it. The boredom doesn't bother me. There are all sorts of things you can to while away the hours.
Here's my concern: There is no market for ice, to speak of. I just checked The Forge, and there is one buy order for White Glaze. I also mine ore with an Apoc, using DCMs II and I can make a bundle if isk in a short while.
How can I make ice-mining worthwhile? If the money was at least equal, I would ice-mine. There are some advantages...
Anyway, if someone wants to offer me a fat contract, I mean, at least equal to scordite, I will commit to keeping your POS supplied.
Just me,
Bad |
Xron
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Posted - 2005.04.21 18:09:00 -
[10]
Thanks Voidvim!
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Shifar
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Posted - 2005.04.21 18:22:00 -
[11]
Only sure fire way to get enough fuel is to mine the ice yourself. That way you remove the problem of not knowing for sure if you'll be able to buy enough ice/fuel for the next week/month.
I've played around with medium towers and found if you limit the amount of CPU you can make your ice (empire ice) strecth further. Having a refinery for example uses a lot of CPU so turning it off when not in use is a good idea.
I'd also like to add that CCP made my life all the harder when they reduced Empire ice yields. I'd forgive then numerous nerfs if they'd undo that one.
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Xron
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Posted - 2005.04.21 19:22:00 -
[12]
I am planning on using the POS for moon mining and production...along with of course defenses for the station itself. I do not plan on doing refining at the POS at this time. From what I can tell, a medium should be able to do this just fine. Does anyone have any suggestions on type of tower (race) or any other suggestions that they would like to pass on?
I am reading through the forums, but welcome any and all advice.
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Peace Fox
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Posted - 2005.04.22 07:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Badshah
How can I make ice-mining worthwhile? If the money was at least equal, I would ice-mine. There are some advantages...
Anyway, if someone wants to offer me a fat contract, I mean, at least equal to scordite, I will commit to keeping your POS supplied.
Thats the Point!!
I made the maths:
1 hour Scordite Mining with big mining barge = 6 mil/ hour
1 hour ice mining = 24 cubes
If scordite mining = ice mining then 1 cube ice would have to cost 250k!!! Nobody would pay that.
Ice cost is at the beginning of the production chain. It influences at the end the T2 item price.
Atm i aim for 80k per ice cube.
Peace Fox
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voidvim
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Posted - 2005.04.22 10:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Peace Fox
Originally by: Badshah
How can I make ice-mining worthwhile? If the money was at least equal, I would ice-mine. There are some advantages...
Anyway, if someone wants to offer me a fat contract, I mean, at least equal to scordite, I will commit to keeping your POS supplied.
Thats the Point!!
I made the maths:
1 hour Scordite Mining with big mining barge = 6 mil/ hour
1 hour ice mining = 24 cubes
If scordite mining = ice mining then 1 cube ice would have to cost 250k!!! Nobody would pay that.
Ice cost is at the beginning of the production chain. It influences at the end the T2 item price.
Atm i aim for 80k per ice cube.
Peace Fox
as a large pos needs 40 empire ice cubes per day for isotopes that you make that would make running a pos about 10 million a day (if you include buying ozone and heavy water). that 76 million a week (6 million for trade goods). very few pos's could make that much isk back.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.04.22 10:58:00 -
[15]
What ice do you get in 0.0? Same as empire or something better?
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Dantes Darkheart
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Posted - 2005.04.22 11:40:00 -
[16]
It's slightly better. Empire ice yield 300 units of isotopes while the 0.0 version yields 350.
I'm gonna have a party...anybody with me? 
======================================
Deklein Resident/POS Manager/Uber Hauler
"I'm kept warm by my hatred of the POS implementation." |
Ranx Xerox
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Posted - 2005.04.22 12:15:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ranx Xerox on 22/04/2005 12:16:59
to answer you : In 0.0 you have about 20 times more pos fuel for the big type they are needed (water and ozone)
heavy water and liquid ozone are so poor in empire, realy i am wishing to buy good quantities in empire border (torrinos ?) , whould people begin to seel good quantities at border ?
Alone i am able to do 20 - 30 M by hours with others stuffs that mining ice so i really hope people will begin to sell big quantities of ice.
I am affraid that miners corps inside empire never goes to specialise on this, seeing what they can do with 3 normals ores miners on large barge or 8 miners 2 ...
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Shovasta
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Posted - 2005.04.22 13:45:00 -
[18]
CCP should release a new ice mining barge with 5 or 6 mining lasers. Or for simplicity just up the yield from refining ice.
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Ranx Xerox
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Posted - 2005.04.22 14:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ranx Xerox on 22/04/2005 14:11:41
Exactly, because currently what happen is that medium and small pos from my point of view are totaly isk and time lost for individuals and small corps, it's only usefull for big corps having already severals larges POS, with big ice miners team and needed to add some extra dedicated pos for low price to their networks, one as outpost with guns (small pos) or one medium for somes dedicated reactors missings reactions... But for others peoples the trade price and mining cost is just pain.
Not only the fuel problem, think also to the current "too much T2 drop from agent problem" that kill your incomes on the other side...
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Badshah
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Posted - 2005.04.22 14:11:00 -
[20]
Well, this is certainly bad news. I would really like to make a career out of ice-mining. There are certain aspects of it that I appreciate. The money is just not there...
I have thought of two options. Please tell me what you think. BTW: I never intend to operate a POS; my aim is to support those who have them, and to make a living.
#1. Train Ice Processing in addition to ice mining. Then I can market the components directly. My question here is, what are they worth? Any chance of a decent profit here? There is not enough data on the market to answer this question.
#2. Mine ice as much as possible and cart it out to .3 space to put up on the market. I'm hoping with this arrangement, people would be willing to pay more since they could avoid the trip to high sec. space.
Feedback, please...
Just me,
Bad |
Ranx Xerox
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Posted - 2005.04.22 14:18:00 -
[21]
nice post, happy to see someone wanting to mine ice!
My question about Ice miners is more about what way you should go, from empire to 0.0 or from 0.0 to empire ?
With small and medium pos the empire heavy water and liquid ozone is extremly hard to have, so you could sign a contract with a lot of people and probably mine in > = 0.5 this ice.
In the other way you should mine in 0.0 to have huge volume of them but very few of the other fuel types, with a nice oportunities to be killed by all sort of people, when mining and hauling...
how are you seeing that, did you look a little about prices you can do in each way including ship / clone price ?
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Badshah
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Posted - 2005.04.22 14:32:00 -
[22]
I apologize for posting again so soon, but an idea just snuck up and hit me over the head! I had to share... This is a novel idea that just dawned on me.
Since I kinda enjoy ice mining and want to support the POS industry... I can lower my income expectations and mine for what it's worth! I do not have to earn top dollar. Yes, I can make more isk, mining scordite in my Apoc, but I like ice mining, and I can help others.
I guess this is what I will do for now. It's not bad money, just not the most I can make. And if ever the market turns around, or new technology comes out that improves productivity, I will be in a good position to reap the benefits.
Ok, done this time! 
Just me,
Bad |
Sieur NewT
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Posted - 2005.04.22 14:52:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Sieur NewT on 22/04/2005 14:55:35
Badshah i am thinking same at pos side, i could do 20 - 30 m by hour with Trades in 1.0, but i want to enter in the POS market Side. So eve mail me with price offer for your ice / fuel stock or if you prefere we can think about a weekly basis contract, i will not have time to mine ice and i want more to see my pos running with very low profit than to kill my time with what dedicated ice miner are coming for :)
Cheers :)
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Sauvez les castors, mangez la foret! |
Badshah
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Posted - 2005.04.23 15:46:00 -
[24]
To Sieur NewT: I am not quite ready to begin something like this in a big way. But it would help me plan, if I knew how much ice you would be interested in per week, and where you need it delivered.
Also, I have been getting 130,000+ in Jita. That constitutes a loss for me, based on mining scordite, etc... How much would you be offering? I am not much of a business man. If you would prefer to answer in EVEmail, that is great.
Recapping: Volume per week, where to, isk offered. I still need to get my ice-processing skills up, but I can at least deliver the ice for now.
Just me,
Bad |
BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2005.04.23 19:11:00 -
[25]
they could cut down the 8 minute + cycle time on the ice miners - that would make ice mining easier and more profitable...
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
Caribardi
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Posted - 2005.04.23 23:39:00 -
[26]
It seems to me ice mining is somewhat easier than mining scordite. The ice chunks are huge! You just pick one, target, fire your lasers, set an egg timer and watch TV or do your homework. With scordite in 0.9-1.0 systems you have much competition and may have to hunt for a good spot, and the roids will pop.
I believe you will be somewhat more productive mining ice and can actually break even vs. scordite selling it for less than what you would make in a fairy-tale scord belt where you didn't have to move every hour or less and you never lost any efficiency due to roid popping.
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This area is a Sun-Tzu-Quote- and Dead-Language-Free Zone. |
Oron
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Posted - 2005.04.24 06:16:00 -
[27]
If you POS managers have transport problems you may be intressed in the our risk transport services.
take a first look at our igb page: http://dss.digitale-environment.net/ or convo/mail me to chat about.
see you outa space
Oron
CEO of Deep Space Services
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Badshah
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Posted - 2005.04.29 16:04:00 -
[28]
To those who EVEMailed me regarding ice-harvesting/processing contracts:
First, I appreciate your interest. I was suprised to get such a good response.
Second, I am not in a position skill-wise to really be of much help yet! I hope that when I am, there will still be some contracts available. keep me in mind. I will send out a notice when I think I am ready.
What remains to be done: Ice-processing needs to be trained. I am currently looking at 2 more weeks of Ref. Eff. V, then HydroMagnetics. I am not done training for the Covetor but I can do with my Retriever in the meantime.
If anyone near Jita was will to simply settle for ice shipments without the refining, I could arrange to put some on escrow in Jita. Ok, nevermind that plan. I will simply put my ice-stock up in the regular market in Jita at a competitive price.
Just me,
Bad |
SaorAlba
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Posted - 2005.04.29 18:24:00 -
[29]
Should the pos community ever want to be able to buy ice off the market the price has the equal that of scordite per hour. Wenn agents stop dropping tech 2 this will be able. POS owners will become the only source and the price of ice will found back in the end price of the product.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.04.29 19:36:00 -
[30]
To Ranx : in the last big patch they upped the 0.0 fuel ice yield to 350 (empire fuel ice is 300) - so 0.0 now has higher yields of everything than empire does.
To Badshah : currently ice refining with refinery efficiency 5 loses aproximately 0.5% to waste, so while ice processing is something to have in the long run, its of rather small effect compared to simply maxing your basic refinery skills.
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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