To put this differently: exactly how does Destiny handle collisions between ship balls?

So it approximates what *feels* right to a person, but is not at all mathematically correct, except for being correct as far as the EVE Physics model goes.

implies that yes, Newtons third law is also in effect.

P.S: Yay now i feel motivated enough to finish my work on particle physics \o/

F=MA isn't as useful for this purpose (I think) as E=1/2MVV.

F=MA deals with the force acting on a single object and how it affects the motion of that objerct, but here we're interested in how two different objects interact when they collide. That's going to be some sort of kinetic energy transfer, so you want to maximise the kinetic energy of the bumping ship in order to have the greatest effect on the target.

As E=1/2MVV, Velocity is much more important than mass. Getting hit by a car travelling at speed is much more devastating than getting hit by a truck that's barely moving.

I think that's right, it's been a while...

I think you confusing a few different things in OP, we do not really care about the force involved in bumping, just the kinetic energies.

IIRC eve simulates elastic collisions between ships, so no %mass does not equal %velocity increase in terms of bumping

Oi, it seems I opened a can of worms here.

What I understand from the above posts is that you can't just combine F=ma and F=-F. I figured that that would be possible, since the first Law does not apply: a constant force is needed to be at a certain speed, and if you suddenly slow down to 0 in a (well aimed) bump, all that F has to be in the target. Is that an absolutely stupid line of thinking? (In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not exactly a physics major :P)

We all know that movement in EVE flies in the face of Newton's First Law, but what's the status of his Second and Third Laws?

In particular, I'd be interested to know if, when bumping, increasing my ship's mass by x% will have the same effect as increasing my velocity by x% (since F=ma). Furthermore, will all my F result in precisely -F for my target?

To put this differently: exactly how does Destiny handle collisions between ship balls?

No, Newton was not GOD therefore the law was meant to be broken

think of that apparatus with 5 shiny metal balls.

exactly how does Destiny handle collisions?

Newtons second law is +úf = +öp / +öt. Or the resultant force = the rate of change of momentum. A simpler version is +úf=ma. This is pretty simple for someone to go out and test. As long as experimental conditions are maintained it should be simple for determine.

Newtons third law states that when an object A exerts a force on object B, Object B exerts a reaction force of equal magnitude and opposite direction on Object A. Seeing as when you are in the captains quarters you don't usually ( its bugged a few times for me) fall through the floor, or the fact that there is any motion at all, implies that yes, Newtons third law is also in effect.

tldr: GTFO noob

P.S: Yay now i feel motivated enough to finish my work on particle physics \o/

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

You seems to be applying a lot of non-essential math to some very simple principles that don't require it. You're also expanding on Newtons Laws,and adding to them.

Actually:



Don't overdo it, you might strain yourself.

Now, an interesting question (to me is) what would EVE be like if we had a space physics model like the old games Independance War and Edge of Chaos had ?

Now, an interesting question (to me is) what would EVE be like if we had a space physics model like the old games Independance War and Edge of Chaos had ?

It's not like anything he said was wrong or didn't directly follow from Newton's laws.

Mostly, the ignorance of that statement, which afaik has nothing to do with any of Newtons laws. Also, Newtons laws are relatively simple; there isn't any good reason to complicate them, and I'd say he did more than that.

Delta p/ Delta t is a reference to a variable change of pressure over a variable period of time. (upper case)Sigma f is Sum of frequency, where f = frequency. F = Force.

How exactly does that make sense? I'm terrible at math, and all I need to do is google it.

So his first formula could be read as the Sum of frequency is equal to a change of pressure over a period of time. Not much to do with Newtons Laws if read that way.

+úF=ma is the correct form, with the slanted ma indicating a vector according to the documentation I've read. Also read as Force is equal to mass times acceleration. Very little to do with pressure, frequency, or the like there.

So unless I'm missing something, it isn't exactly right is it?

Either way, I probably wouldn't have said anything were it not for the "gtfo noob". In hindsight however, after actually reading the post and seeing the general attitude, it isn't as if he were actually being intentionally offensive, but more like he intended it in a non-offensive manner.

Someone needs to study more.

edit:

+úF = +öp/+öt is correct too apparently, with p = momentum in this case, and the expression being a change in momentum. This is apparently how Newton himself expressed his 2nd Law. (Love how they change meanings willy nilly in math; makes it so fun to learn)

p = mv (mementum = kg * m/s)

+úF = ma = m(+öv/+öt)


Still, that f should have been capitalized.

/me goes to make sure the switch at jita which produces fluidic space and ceases Newtonian physics, is still in the [ON] position rendering all maths in this thread inert. Check.

From what I'm led to believe; EVE's simulation deals with space as a Superfluid rather then a body of space that accurately models newtonian physics; which in and of itself is a misnomer as we know that Newtonian physics are only good enough for non relativistic speeds.

So it approximates what *feels* right to a person, but is not at all mathematically correct, except for being correct as far as the EVE Physics model goes.

Now, an interesting question (to me is) what would EVE be like if we had a space physics model like the old games Independance War and Edge of Chaos had ?

We all know that movement in EVE flies in the face of Newton's First Law, but what's the status of his Second and Third Laws?

In particular, I'd be interested to know if, when bumping, increasing my ship's mass by x% will have the same effect as increasing my velocity by x% (since F=ma). Furthermore, will all my F result in precisely -F for my target?

To put this differently: exactly how does Destiny handle collisions between ship balls?

Law III: To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions.

EVE is set 21.000 years in the future. I think that with that kind of far future technology, EVE engineers are able to break some of the fundamental laws of nature. Like breaking spacetime continuum (for jump drives). So breaking something trivial like thermodynamic laws is easy

F=MA isn't as useful for this purpose (I think) as E=1/2MVV.

F=MA deals with the force acting on a single object and how it affects the motion of that objerct, but here we're interested in how two different objects interact when they collide. That's going to be some sort of kinetic energy transfer, so you want to maximise the kinetic energy of the bumping ship in order to have the greatest effect on the target.

As E=1/2MVV, Velocity is much more important than mass. Getting hit by a car travelling at speed is much more devastating than getting hit by a truck that's barely moving.

I think that's right, it's been a while...

Newton's first law applies to bodies in motion through space. Perhaps our EVE ships do not move through space, and in fact, sit perfectly still in space and instead move the space in which they sit.

Perhaps there is no damage from collision, because our ships do not actually collide... perhaps it is the spaces in which we sit perfectly still, that are colliding with each other. This would explain why I am 0 meters from that acceleration gate or station, even when I can still be moving towards it... I'm in the same space as it, though have not contacted it yet.....


So, perhaps Newton's law does apply to bodies in motion through space, like bullets... but simply does not apply to bodies at rest, within a moving are of space.....


I think the real question is a stealth "nerf bumping" thread.

A stabber with a mass of 11million kg is (sitting still in space that is) moving at 1000 m/sec hits (the space that a) mining barge (is in) that has a mass of 20 million kg. Assuming a perfectly elastic collision where all the momentum from the stabber('s space) is transfered to the mining barge('s space), the stabber should end up not moving while the mining barge goes flying off at (11/20 * 1000 =) 550 m/sec.

Put a couple 1600mm plates on the stabber to up its mass to 16 million kg, and you'd get something closer to (16/20 *1000 =) 800 m/sec for the mining barge.

In particular, I'd be interested to know if, when bumping, increasing my ship's mass by x% will have the same effect as increasing my velocity by x% (since F=ma). Furthermore, will all my F result in precisely -F for my target?