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Pagefault
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Posted - 2005.04.27 15:53:00 -
[31]
The nice thing on eve is, that a 20 mil SP char cannot stand against 10 500k SP chars. Thats quite different to other games, where a lvl 50 can kill 100s of lvl 10 chars at ease...
If you are young with this game, just find a couple of other young chars, and u will be quite a force, and that is true for almost every part of the game, not only PvP.
The argument, that u don't have a corp doesnt count... eve is about finding friends, just go and get some.
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Tananda Vaakaja
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Posted - 2005.04.27 16:56:00 -
[32]
Welcome to Eve
It's not really a matter of "competing" with older players.. you compete with your peers... other players in the same skill range, even with yourself (ooOO Can I fly that Kewl Ship?) etc.
None of us could compete with older players who have an established corp network to draw on for resources (don't forget a lot of the devs play the game and just code themselves ships.. sux to be human don't it?)
So don't think of it as trying to go head to head with someone.. play for yourself.. the enjoyment the nifty stuff you can get and the occasional "DeepProbing" by a player gank squad. It may be frustrating in Eve.. but it's rarely boring.
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Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2005.04.27 17:16:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Naburi NasNaburi
Yah but thats the case in every other mmo/online game.. Friends always *twink* you out and make you tough *grins*
The only people I know here is my hubby - and hes pretty new to Eve aswell.
Which brings me back on track: Learning and Doing everything from scratch = players with alot of skill and knowledge.
Time will tell how much I can learn and catch up..but one thing I already know: you guys encouraged me alot :)
experience of the game > sp.
i mainly play with low sp specialised alts instead of my 25m sp main that can't do nothing else than pvp :)
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.04.27 17:17:00 -
[34]
removed, that's no way to welcome a new player - Grosvenor Corama
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Mitawyn
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Posted - 2005.04.27 17:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Joe Magio
Edited by: Joe Magio on 27/04/2005 11:35:31
The important thing is defining your priorities in eve in accordance to who you want to be. Some people want to be mining barges, some people would want to be combatants, some people want to be haulers, some people want to be miners, etcetera.
Come up with a list of importants to that topic. Say for instance this can be mine as a mining barge wantabe.
- Learning to IV
- Spacial Awareness (Perception) to IV
- Analytical Mind (Intellegence) to IV
- Memory Recall (Memory) to IV
- Empathy (Social) to IV
- Iron Will (Willpower) to IV
- Frigate to III
- Electronics to IV
- Targeting to IV
- Drones to IV
- Scout drones to III or IV
- Science to IV
- Astrogeology to III
- Navigation to IV
- Afterburner to III
- Industry to V
- Mining Barge to V
My list can change at any time. There could be something that I'm missing for instance I could need Mechanic IV and Hull Upgrades IV to increase cargohold expanders use.
Point is to come up with your priority to catch up from being a noobie to an experienced noobie. Although in my opinion, I would hold off on the "V" level until you plan a vacation.
You actually want to be a "barge"?  Or is that miner using a barge? 
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.04.27 17:31:00 -
[36]
Answer the original poster: yes, newcomers are forever second class citizens in EVE, it's a fact and not even remotely debatable.
You will never catch up and will have to specialize to be effective, which means a lot of game content that you will never see (unless in a distant future).
You will read many replies from people who say it's ok, and I won't go into that debate again since logic seems out of place on this very topic.
I will only tell you this: you won't hear many people supporting a skill cap or non-linear training curve on these forums, because those who don't like EVE's skill system are not playing EVE, excepted a very few.
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SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2005.04.27 17:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Naburi NasNaburi
The only question that keeps itching:
Will new players be able to compete with the oldies ? Will there ever be a time when a new player can take on someone who has been playing for a year or more ? Or should someone like me just flee as fast as her ships let her once attacked ?
To be honest. No you wont be able to take him on. Though you can keep him warpscrambled untill your bigger buddies arrive 
A person that has played for two years is a person that has played for two years. He has invested insane amounts of gametime, not to mention subscriptionfee. This is not a game for people who want to win or want to be the best. Though some people sure seem to be trying.
All those old players provide you with a splendid background of content and political games. My suggestion is just to jump in and surf the wave. Enjoy a game so unlike any other MMOG out there. Compete with yourself and people who are in the same position as you. Accept that you are just a small person in a very big world and start take steps from there
*
-"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.04.27 17:40:00 -
[38]
In my opinion new characters definitely need a way to speed up skill training. I'd be happy if all new accounts started with 2 million skillpoints, but this would probably be a problem due to all of the crappy alts that CCP refuses to reveal.
Tactics and experience count for more than anything, but skillpoints are becoming more and more of a factor. I don't care how crafty you are, a noob that gets hit by T2 1400's is probably gonna die.
The biggest equalizer in EVE used to be EW, but now that all EW is skillbased this is no longer true. This is the main reason I was opposed to the EW changes, but now that they are here they don't seem too bad, but that is because I have lots of skills. Small groups of noobs should always be able to beat 1 25 mil sp char if they use their brains, and I'm not so sure that is true anymore. EW is still the key for noobs, but you gotta train up a lot of skills for that now too.
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Grut
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Posted - 2005.04.27 18:10:00 -
[39]
Team >> skillpoints
Mostly harmless |
Knoppaz
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Posted - 2005.04.27 18:29:00 -
[40]
ISK >>> Skills 
Since this discussion is mostly about combat..
ISK = Mercs (or  , whatever fits better) = dead 20mio. SP 
Hubby here btw
___________________
2005.05.06 19:35:17combatYour 650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon perfectly strikes Angel Liquidator, wrecking for 438.7 damage. |
Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.04.27 18:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Naburi NasNaburi
Dont get me wrong on the topic please :)
I am starting to love the game to bits. I am slowly starting to understand how things work ( thanks to my husband for explaining every single silly point lol )
The only question that keeps itching:
Will new players be able to compete with the oldies ? Will there ever be a time when a new player can take on someone who has been playing for a year or more ? Or should someone like me just flee as fast as her ships let her once attacked ?
Unlike other games there is no max level here, thats the reason why this question came to mind.
I would appreciate any answers on this :)
My son was killing elite frigs with his tech 1 frig 3 days into the game.
its all a matter of tactics and numbers.
Zandramus
Zandramus
Parking Violations Officer
Geminate Division
S.A.S
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.27 18:41:00 -
[42]
If you get certain core gunnery skills and I think you can get most of the important ones to lvl4 and be around 1.5 mil sp or so in gunnery with those, then you have the basis to do okay versus anyone with higher skillpoints. Add large turret skill of your choice to lvl 4/5 to the aforementioned and you're good to go.
Then your wallet will become the limiting factor, not your skillpoints. A tempest for example with 10 mil expended in guns vs. say 50 mil expended in guns are very different in terms of capability. Also the difference between expensive t2 damage mods and less capable\cheaper t1 variants.
Get a decently kitted out BS and a friend or two, and you'll see how the 25 smil sp character go down just as quick as the 5 mil sp characters do to a well considered and executed plan of attack. I can back this up with an example. A month ago I was playing on two comps, 2 tempests characters of mine and a friend was flying ops for us. I warped to him and with my two 10mil sp chars, we easily dispatched a near 30 mil sp character in a tempest who was sniping people at the gate.
That one character had more SP then ALL of us combined. Yet a well executed plan of attack combined with solid gunnery foundations on my characters and really nice flying on the part of the cov ops guy, allowed us to win, and win easily I might add. In total, the loot ended up to be worth around 50 mil.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.04.27 19:47:00 -
[43]
not really. just get a bit tired of the exact same post poping up as soon as the last 1 on the same subject of new players has got to 12 pages and finaly died to page6.
A. when it comes to small ships a vet and newb can reach the same level very fast.
lots of newbs fly ceptors cus once you reach t2 guns for it theres not much skill wise that can make it better.
B. vets had no +1 +2 +4 +5 +6 implant when they started, no teir 2 learning skills or the SOONtm atribute boosters.
C. theres generaly alot more to do in eve now and more corps. So pleanty more than vets had to keep them busy well skill crunching.
D. Lots of Vets have diversified into multiple race ships. so the newbs whp joined when eve was becoming more specilised catch up in less fields faster.
And can often fly 1 BS to max where a vet can fly all 17 (yes theres 17types of bs and varients) reasonable.
Flame over. good all that rage from agents giving the same mission over and over is out of my system.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Grosvenor Corama
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Posted - 2005.04.27 20:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Naburi NasNaburi
Dont get me wrong on the topic please :)
I am starting to love the game to bits. I am slowly starting to understand how things work ( thanks to my husband for explaining every single silly point lol )
The only question that keeps itching:
Will new players be able to compete with the oldies ? Will there ever be a time when a new player can take on someone who has been playing for a year or more ? Or should someone like me just flee as fast as her ships let her once attacked ?
Unlike other games there is no max level here, thats the reason why this question came to mind.
I would appreciate any answers on this :)
Welcome to EVE, and welcome to the forums. A place where skillpoints are irrelevant, and everybody gets to compete.
Note to other posters, don't scare away the new people
~{Forum Rules}~ ♥ ~{contact us}~ |
Miner's Bane
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Posted - 2005.04.27 20:04:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Miner''s Bane on 27/04/2005 20:06:08
If you can't compete with 2m in non-learning SP, you cant compete with 20m.
The only difference is that 20m will hide your incompetence somewhat more effectively then 2m.
Oh, and I think that the first 2m SP on an account should train at an accelerated rate, but thats because I'm not a huge fan of the skill system in the first month or two of play - it seems excessively restrictive, whereas after a decent SP base, its more of an enabler.
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Grosvenor Corama
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Posted - 2005.04.27 20:15:00 -
[46]
Those first few SP do have their own charm IMO. That feeling of "oh nice, can use new module I've never seen before now, or after a hour or so you're doing 5% more damage"
~{Forum Rules}~ ♥ ~{contact us}~ |
Xtro 2
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Posted - 2005.04.27 21:00:00 -
[47]
Older pilots simply fly/use more toys, you only have to remember that out of ever skill out there, they all only go so far as level 5.
Only takes about 4 months to pilot battleships that can use what it wants and tank just as well as an old player, so long as thats all you train for, as many do tho they want to fly everything out there so train for too many things at once.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Aureus
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Posted - 2005.04.27 23:58:00 -
[48]
people tell us newbies to 'specialize'. sure that's all well and good but here's my analogy to specializing. It's like a pitcher who throws only one type of pitch every time. Every batter coming up to the plate will know what to expect and how to take advantage of you. Vets can mix it up- you face the same guy again and you really have no idea what his advantage might be this time...
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Naburi NasNaburi
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Posted - 2005.04.28 09:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Grosvenor Corama
Welcome to EVE, and welcome to the forums. A place where skillpoints are irrelevant, and everybody gets to compete.
Note to other posters, don't scare away the new people
*snicker*
No worries takes a bit more to scare me away 
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Alexander Reikson
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Posted - 2005.04.28 09:52:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Alexander Reikson on 28/04/2005 09:52:27
Originally by: Knoppaz
ISK >>> Skills
Since this discussion is mostly about combat..
ISK = Mercs (or , whatever fits better) = dead 20mio. SP
Hubby here btw
He speaks truth!
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.04.28 09:57:00 -
[51]
IMHO new players shouldnt be able to catch up totaly with older players.. simply because older players have been playing longer and have invested more time. There is no way around this and it shouldnt be changed.. I mean seriously what are you going to do thats not going to cause people to quit?
People already train and improve quicker at the start than later on thanks to the skill ranking system.
Your going to give everyone a million sp when they start?? Well that blows big hairy monkey nuts. If thats the case then I want an extra million SP to spend as I see fit to. You'd have to give the older players a million sp to be fair, why should they miss out .. they were new players too.
Nope it shouldnt be changed. Being able to do more things well than a newer player, even though he may do some things as good as you, is your reward for playing for months (years anyone?).
Quote:
I will only tell you this: you won't hear many people supporting a skill cap or non-linear training curve on these forums, because those who don't like EVE's skill system are not playing EVE, excepted a very few.
Eve already has a non liniar training curve.. its called the skill ranking system
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Naburi NasNaburi
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Posted - 2005.04.28 10:03:00 -
[52]
Oh noo I never said I wanted skill caps or any free SP to start out with !
This was a general question, something I wanted to know - simply because I had no answer to it due to being SO new to the game.
I never complained - I only wanted to learn something :)
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.04.28 10:07:00 -
[53]
that wasnt directed at you .. It was implied by some of the replies.
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Naburi NasNaburi
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Posted - 2005.04.28 10:08:00 -
[54]
*phew*
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.04.28 10:29:00 -
[55]
Skill points really are not a good indication of ability; let me make an example:
Say I was to take a Megathron into combat, how would I do?
Well, none of my corp management skills help, but I don’t have many, but still that’s 50k sp that are no good.
Drones:
Going to use, at most, 520k out of 540k, not bad.
Electronics: 970k / 1.4mil
Engineering : 1.7mil / 1.8mil (although many of these are shield skills which are not utilised to the full because I will be armour tanking)
Gunnery: 2.6mil / 5mil (yeah, I suck I know)
Industry: 0 / 170k
Leadership: 0 /7k (wow)
Learning: 0 / 2mil
Mechanic: 800k / 900k
Missiles: 0 / 1.3mil
Navigation: Well, probably most of the 2.4mil sp’s – but only the mwd ones actually help my mega.
Science: 0 / 1.4mil
Social : 0 / 150k
Spaceship Command: 1.35mil / 5mil (that includes my current levels at the pre-req ship skills, not just the required levels, used total is much less)
So, where does that leave me (apart from toasted?)
10.3ish million sp’s are useful … much less than half my total (and I have overestimated the useful total)
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Bawldeux IV
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:32:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 28/04/2005 12:33:18
Originally by: Grosvenor Corama
Originally by: Naburi NasNaburi
Dont get me wrong on the topic please :)
I am starting to love the game to bits. I am slowly starting to understand how things work ( thanks to my husband for explaining every single silly point lol )
The only question that keeps itching:
Will new players be able to compete with the oldies ? Will there ever be a time when a new player can take on someone who has been playing for a year or more ? Or should someone like me just flee as fast as her ships let her once attacked ?
Unlike other games there is no max level here, thats the reason why this question came to mind.
I would appreciate any answers on this :)
Welcome to EVE, and welcome to the forums. A place where skillpoints are irrelevant, and everybody gets to compete.
Note to other posters, don't scare away the new people
uhhh
skill point don't matter????
since when?
I create a charactor, and it can fly a t2 frigate with cloaking and t2 guns right away?
I can fly bs's covered in t2 gear, right away?
My skills for mining, hauling, building, refining are all equal to that of a vet?
get off the *****pipe and tell the truth. skills DO MATTER.
can a noob compete with a vet, NO!
can they work with a vet, YES!
does this give the vets the upper hand and the control of the game, yes. you, nor ccp may like this, but it is the truth, (if not, why not just give allplayers maxed skills on 'birth').
for the noobs, just work with some vets so they can nurse you along, until you can stand on your own. dont be dilusional about the game, it is hard, a steep learning curve, and is not noob friendly, but it is fun once you get over a few hurdles.
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>>...wanna cookie?<<
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Grosvenor Corama
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:37:00 -
[57]
Skillpoints do not matter on the forums. If you can read, and write you can compete on the same lvl as all others here.
~{Forum Rules}~ ♥ ~{contact us}~ |
Mr Crowley
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:45:00 -
[58]
Skill points dont matter when it comes to making money, im not even two months old and I am filthy rich. When your rich you can hire somone to do all the PVP for you, make yourself kinda a kingpin type of dude.
I used to have a nice sig but it keeps getting removed by somone with no explanation. Typical isnt it. |
DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2005.04.28 13:26:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mr Crowley
Skill points dont matter when it comes to making money, im not even two months old and I am filthy rich. When your rich you can hire somone to do all the PVP for you, make yourself kinda a kingpin type of dude.
i hear a lot of that crap "i am rich after a month or two" but never any info on how they get the isk...
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Bawldeux IV
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Posted - 2005.04.28 13:28:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Grosvenor Corama
Skillpoints do not matter on the forums. If you can read, and write you can compete on the same lvl as all others here.
since when was I paying for a sub to post on a forum?
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>>...wanna cookie?<<
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