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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.04.27 13:00:00 -
[1]
I know its been a long struggle. I knew everything that CCP did would help the game. Its now with moments like this that gives me faith.
This devblog has changed the game. This change will be huge.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Sam Spacey
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Posted - 2005.04.27 13:18:00 -
[2]
The changes were needed, I am happy.
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William Konrad
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Posted - 2005.04.27 13:31:00 -
[3]
yay !! POS 4TW
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.27 17:42:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Harisdrop
I know its been a long struggle. I knew everything that CCP did would help the game. Its now with moments like this that gives me faith.
This devblog has changed the game. This change will be huge.
In this particular area of the forums the discussion is quite different than the other areas. It's much more measured and balanced in terms of constructive criticism versus simple tirades and complaints that offer nothing in the way of alternatives that aren't mere "gimme gimme gimme" ploys for more power for this group or that faction, etc.
And certainly at some basic level, if I were a Dev I would want to read this area of the board whilst skipping the others because my head would hurt less :)
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2005.04.28 03:57:00 -
[5]
Agreed very exciting time to be a POS owner.
Calladen 
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Dantes Darkheart
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:11:00 -
[6]
Very true Cummillia. I agree that this change will have a profound effect on POS operations and T2 component production. T2 module production is another beast because it's governed by the availability of BPOs.
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Deklein Resident/POS Manager/Uber Hauler
"I'm kept warm by my hatred of the POS implementation." |
Dreck Morrison
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Posted - 2005.04.28 15:14:00 -
[7]
Signed - I am very happy with this announcement since it will jump-start this whole new market that was not going anywhere!
At this point I have built up a stock of 100K of 5 different moon materials. But I hadn't gone through the effort to use a reactor since the profit margins didn't seem to justify the time investment in the POS (it was better used as a refinery).
Now...I am frantically calculating how much time it will take to make them into tech 2 items. I hadn't gone back to my spread sheets since I realized that POS were not profitable. Finally something more to think about when I am not playing. |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.28 16:06:00 -
[8]
I have a feeling it might kill the T2 market. POS owners will be the source of all T2 comps which will make them more profitable, but I don't think they can take up the slack when agent drops stop. And keep the same supply. Who is going to buy Intys at 30mil? For that price I can afford to lose dozens of cruisers.
If POS can't take up the slack T2 will sky rocket and a lot of people will stop buying. You might be making a lot more on any individual T2 item, but I have a feeling that there will be no volume.
And all the bright eyed eager POS owners will compete until they are barely breaking even, just like now. POS *should* be profitable as they are. Passing on the cost to T2 buyers is not the solution.
Mark my words a few months after this change CCP will either put agent drops back, buff POS T2 production or cut the running costs a lot.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.04.28 16:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: theRaptor
I have a feeling it might kill the T2 market. POS owners will be the source of all T2 comps which will make them more profitable, but I don't think they can take up the slack when agent drops stop. And keep the same supply. Who is going to buy Intys at 30mil? For that price I can afford to lose dozens of cruisers.
If POS can't take up the slack T2 will sky rocket and a lot of people will stop buying. You might be making a lot more on any individual T2 item, but I have a feeling that there will be no volume.
And all the bright eyed eager POS owners will compete until they are barely breaking even, just like now. POS *should* be profitable as they are. Passing on the cost to T2 buyers is not the solution.
Mark my words a few months after this change CCP will either put agent drops back, buff POS T2 production or cut the running costs a lot.
Raptor - you're missing one VITAL part of T2 pricing. The component price make very little difference, the prices are made by the bpo owners.
So, when inty's start costing 30m you can blame the t2 owners, the only chokepoint *might* be the isotopes.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.04.28 16:23:00 -
[10]
I've been told it costs 2-3 million to make an interceptor. Yet they go from 10 to 20 million each. I think I see where the real problem will lay if they hit 30 million plus.
Now, as of saying that. I found 2 moons that will give everything I need to make titnium carbide. An advance reaction and as I understand it the basic building blocks of tech II. Something I hope that will remain in high volume. Now, I am going to need 1 large at least and possiable a med. Problem is, you can't. Because production will then be at a back log because of the different production rates of med and small.
As I see, med doesn't save money or easier to run, it only makes it cost more.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.28 16:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Raptor - you're missing one VITAL part of T2 pricing. The component price make very little difference, the prices are made by the bpo owners.
So, when inty's start costing 30m you can blame the t2 owners, the only chokepoint *might* be the isotopes.
No the markup is set by the BPO owners (quite a nice mark up currently).
Most T2 comps are currently sold by agent runners like me that want quick Isk and fill the closest buy order. You really think POS owners that have sweated for weeks, at least, to get a finished comp, are going to fill the nearest buy order?
T2 BPO owners are about to learn a nasty lesson about economics. Without the flow of comps from agent runners, POS owners will be free to set the price.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.28 16:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
I've been told it costs 2-3 million to make an interceptor. Yet they go from 10 to 20 million each. I think I see where the real problem will lay if they hit 30 million plus.
Now, as of saying that. I found 2 moons that will give everything I need to make titnium carbide. An advance reaction and as I understand it the basic building blocks of tech II. Something I hope that will remain in high volume. Now, I am going to need 1 large at least and possiable a med. Problem is, you can't. Because production will then be at a back log because of the different production rates of med and small.
As I see, med doesn't save money or easier to run, it only makes it cost more.
That is now because as I said BPO owners are getting a lot of comps on the cheap from impatient agent runners. Once that supply is gone, POS owners will be setting the price. And they have a certain level of income they *need* to keep production running, and are smart enough to want a bigger slice of the pie.
If CCP don't reduce the cost of running a POS, T2 can *never* get cheaper. No matter how many POS there are, they have a certain level of income needed for upkeep. And at the very best comp prices can fall low enough to support the bare minimum profit needed.
What happend to POS making T2 cheaper? 
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PASTOR TROY
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Posted - 2005.04.28 17:48:00 -
[13]
1)People will always pay for tech 2 items. see cap charger 2's.
2)Stable supply = stable prices(whatever that may be)eventually.
3)There is no way POS would ever as a whole survive or become profitable if Agent drops remained. No way.
4)A few more tech 2 bpos's need to be injected once supply stabalizes.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.04.28 21:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Dianabolic
Raptor - you're missing one VITAL part of T2 pricing. The component price make very little difference, the prices are made by the bpo owners.
So, when inty's start costing 30m you can blame the t2 owners, the only chokepoint *might* be the isotopes.
No the markup is set by the BPO owners (quite a nice mark up currently).
Most T2 comps are currently sold by agent runners like me that want quick Isk and fill the closest buy order. You really think POS owners that have sweated for weeks, at least, to get a finished comp, are going to fill the nearest buy order?
T2 BPO owners are about to learn a nasty lesson about economics. Without the flow of comps from agent runners, POS owners will be free to set the price.
Raptor - POS owners can ALREADY produce for LESS than the agent runners - what's gonna effect it is the availability of isotopes.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.28 21:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
I've been told it costs 2-3 million to make an interceptor. Yet they go from 10 to 20 million each. I think I see where the real problem will lay if they hit 30 million plus.
Now, as of saying that. I found 2 moons that will give everything I need to make titnium carbide. An advance reaction and as I understand it the basic building blocks of tech II. Something I hope that will remain in high volume. Now, I am going to need 1 large at least and possiable a med. Problem is, you can't. Because production will then be at a back log because of the different production rates of med and small.
As I see, med doesn't save money or easier to run, it only makes it cost more.
That is now because as I said BPO owners are getting a lot of comps on the cheap from impatient agent runners. Once that supply is gone, POS owners will be setting the price. And they have a certain level of income they *need* to keep production running, and are smart enough to want a bigger slice of the pie.
If CCP don't reduce the cost of running a POS, T2 can *never* get cheaper. No matter how many POS there are, they have a certain level of income needed for upkeep. And at the very best comp prices can fall low enough to support the bare minimum profit needed.
What happend to POS making T2 cheaper?
Actually there is alot of substance to this point of view. The cost structure of a POS will most certainly have an income on price for t2 produced from this production chain.
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voidvim
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Posted - 2005.04.29 15:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Harisdrop
I know its been a long struggle. I knew everything that CCP did would help the game. Its now with moments like this that gives me faith.
This devblog has changed the game. This change will be huge.
\o/ for CCP
I perosnal hope ccp will not look at operating cost and other pos moduals like factorys
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