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Coreola
Reasonable People
Of Sound Mind
3
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Posted - 2012.11.27 20:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just curious what the general thought is on this. The buff AFs "recently" received helped, but now with cruisers getting buffed, is it likely people will still fly AFs?
Jump, jump, jump. |
Aria Ta'Rohk
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.11.27 20:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Of course people will still fly the assualt frigates. They need to in order to fly an Assault Cruiser  !
In all seriousness, however, yes the assault frigs will still be popular and flown extensively. In those situations where you need big tank and high damage but the maneuverability of a frigate, there is no competition. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates
Nyanpire
214
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Posted - 2012.11.27 21:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2012.11.28 11:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right
If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway.
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
158
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Posted - 2012.11.28 11:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Since more medium slots are introduced on many ship hulls with the next patch, Assault Frigates (and Frigates in general) will suffer very much from this. Most brawling cruisers will in the future be fitted with dual web, which reduces survivability of frigates within scram range of a cruiser to less than 10 seconds.
Basically we will run into the following situation:
- Brawling cruisers will have dual web and kill every frigate which enter their 10km kill zone immediatelly.
- Kiting cruisers (especially Cynabal) will behave as in the past... they will simply out run assault frigates.
Result: Put your assault frigates back into the relicts box.
BTW: This was exactly the reason why I always advocated that assault frigates should get a "web effect reduction" bonus instead the crappy MWD-bonus they got. |
Maeltstome
The Burning Red
129
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Posted - 2012.11.28 11:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cpt Branko wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway.
I'd be more worried about twin LSE rax's with TE's blapping me from 20k using neutrons. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
233
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Posted - 2012.11.28 12:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Cpt Branko wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway. I'd be more worried about twin LSE rax's with TE's blapping me from 20k using neutrons.
Rofl kiting with unbonused medium blasters.. So bad..
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
446
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Posted - 2012.11.28 12:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aria Ta'Rohk wrote:[...]In those situations where you need big tank and high damage but the maneuverability of a frigate, there is no competition.
...except they do not have the maneuverability of a frigate.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
17
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Posted - 2012.11.28 12:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Maeltstome wrote:Cpt Branko wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Dual web rax's will be raping close range af's left and right If they're daft enough to engage a competent cruiser in webrange, yes. It's not like a Thorax or any cruiser can actively *hunt* AFs, or that anything fundamental changes, because all cruisers worth undocking in already did kill AFs anyway. I'd be more worried about twin LSE rax's with TE's blapping me from 20k using neutrons. Rofl kiting with unbonused medium blasters.. So bad..
That works quite well m8, puts out like 350dps t0 20km more than enough to gank frigates, but i dont get why you would fit dual lse for that, i your caught your dead anyways so tank wont help you so either go web/lase/point/lse for kting or get a cap booster to improve the rather poor cap!
If your afraid of kiiting cruisers in your afs, fear the new omen (more dps than a vaga at 20 km)!! |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
40
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Posted - 2012.11.28 12:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Smaller sig, faster, higher resists, better agility, etc. Yes, AFs will still be very viable. |
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
158
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Posted - 2012.11.28 14:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Smaller sig, faster, higher resists, better agility, etc. Yes, AFs will still be very viable.
Once double webbed there is not much left from your speed... and the problem with signature is even if you have small signature turrents can hit you with full damage if the traversal is low... and traversal tends to be low if you are moving slow and the other ship is also moving slow. |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
17
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Posted - 2012.11.28 15:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Smaller sig, faster, higher resists, better agility, etc. Yes, AFs will still be very viable. Once double webbed there is not much left from your speed... and the problem with signature is even if you have small signature turrents can hit you with full damage if the traversal is low... and traversal tends to be low if you are moving slow and the other ship is also moving slow.
No thats not true, turrets only hit well when you have 0 tranversal, ab (mwd ones will be boned, but only because than the other ship is faster and can keep transversal at 0) frigates will still laugh at dualweb medium turret ships. Even a vengeance wich will be going 250m/s wont be hit by medium turrets as long as its faster than the target and can keep transversal up! (thats due to the signature radius of guns, medium ones have like 125 which means for the guns the venegance will have a orbit speed of about 1000m/s, more tha enough not to get hit) |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
211
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Posted - 2012.11.28 16:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Eh. Frigates in general (afs as well) having something other than a couple of specific cruisers and dessies be a viable threat to them I think is a good thing all in all.
I see AF's still being flown a lot after expansion.
There is a special Hell for people like that,
Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater.
~Firefly |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
748
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Posted - 2012.11.28 17:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Of all the new combat and attack cruisers, only the Rupture and Stabber have utility highs. And the latter really needs to fit launchers there to supplement it's already weak DPS. Most of the attack cruisers with the exception of the Omen (3 mids) will probably be Shield fit. 18- 25k EHP with no webs. The combat cruisers, designed fo brawling, will be dangerous. (Moa and Maller will probably only have one web). If I am in an AF I would probably not try to solo a Rupture or vexor. I would be cautious around a Thorax looking at its speed for clues before I closed. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
525
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Posted - 2012.11.28 17:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
First - AFs have never been able to compete with cruisers on a one for one basis in general. Smaller ships are always disadvantaged in direct combat to compensate for their superior speed and strategic agility (e.g. ability to not get tackled by blobs)
Anyway, cruisers are getting buffed, this much is true. However it's worth noting that pre-Retribution, the metagame heavily emphasizes things that happen to be very good at killing smaller ships. What are the most common battlecruiser and cruiser hulls? Hurricane, Drake, Rupture, (occasionally) AML caracal... all of which are unusually good at dealing with ships smaller than themselves.
With the balance changes you'll see a lot more things that are less intrinsically good at killing frigates. Things that use lasers or don't have a bunch of neuts. |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
17
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Posted - 2012.11.28 17:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Most of the attack cruisers with the exception of the Omen (3 mids) will probably be Shield fit. 18- 25k EHP with no webs. T.
You do realize that the best new turret nano shield cruiser of them all will be the shield omen right? |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration
Reckless Faith
78
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Posted - 2012.11.28 20:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Posting in a hang up all yer frigates thread \o/
Seriously ppl have been killing above class stuff for years despite the bigger ships being 'better' at everything according to some.
Get over it, grow a pair and figure out how to defeat the bigger stuff.
With the teiricide the classes are much more even but guess what they will still die and now more than ever ther is no 'i-win' button in pvp!!
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
Sister Lumi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.11.28 20:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Posting in a hang up all yer frigates thread \o/
Seriously ppl have been killing above class stuff for years despite the bigger ships being 'better' at everything according to some.
Get over it, grow a pair and figure out how to defeat the bigger stuff.
With the teiricide the classes are much more even but guess what they will still die and now more than ever ther is no 'i-win' button in pvp!!
Overreacting yes, but I don't think there's ever been any medium turrets with the new Thorax tracking. Blaster tracking was buffed recently, now it gets the hull bonus and option to fit dual webs. And drones. And speed. It's not exactly the easiest thing for frigs imho.
Anyway, we'll see how things work out when people have couple of months of experience. Fits emerge, counters appear, all we know now is that we have new toys to play with
and break 
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Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat
Dark Taboo
24
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Posted - 2012.11.28 20:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
AF's have the totally awesome t2 resists, coupled with the new logi frigs that will be a huge advantage over the new t1 cruisers.
AF's have smaller sig, better resi and better speed than T1 cruisers and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 cruisers.
HAC's have, you guessed it, smaller sig, better resi and speed than T1 BS's and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 BS's.
Logi supported HAC gang against Logi supported T1 BS gang, guess who wins.
Logi supported AF gang against Logi supported T1 Cruiser gang, guess who wins. |
Karmu Ivanostrov
Drunken Old Farts
Massa Interitum
6
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Posted - 2012.11.28 20:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:AF's have the totally awesome t2 resists, coupled with the new logi frigs that will be a huge advantage over the new t1 cruisers.
AF's have smaller sig, better resi and better speed than T1 cruisers and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 cruisers.
HAC's have, you guessed it, smaller sig, better resi and speed than T1 BS's and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 BS's.
Logi supported HAC gang against Logi supported T1 BS gang, guess who wins.
Logi supported AF gang against Logi supported T1 Cruiser gang, guess who wins.
But there are not HML Battleships out there... I will be in my Rapid Light Missile Launcher Bellicose and Caracal hunting AFs I can tell you that xD |
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Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates
Nyanpire
217
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Posted - 2012.11.28 20:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:
and are otherwise pretty much on the same level statwise as t1 cruisers.
I want some of what you are smoking...
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Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant
Tribal Band
169
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Posted - 2012.11.29 01:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
They are fun
such as the blarpy
I Endorse this Product and/or Service
Source Recorder-esque tool for EVE |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
Tribal Band
6
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Posted - 2012.11.29 08:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Even the Omen now got a drone bay. And afaik the new attack cruisers are faster (shield-tanked) than most AFs, sure about the stabber and omen, not that sure about those others, and can easily fit a T2 point. |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
271
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Posted - 2012.11.29 15:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pretty damn sure I will stil fly my 450+ DPS, 12k EHP, 2400m/s Harpy, currently as it is cruisers are a valid target within reason, same way a Hurricane is a taget within reason, an Arty Hurricane the now is as vulnerable as an Omen to any competent frigate.
All we have to deal with is a few more variables, kills are still possible.
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Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates
Nyanpire
218
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Posted - 2012.11.29 17:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:Pretty damn sure I will stil fly my 450+ DPS, 12k EHP, 2400m/s Harpy, currently as it is cruisers are a valid target within reason, same way a Hurricane is a taget within reason, an Arty Hurricane the now is as vulnerable as an Omen to any competent frigate.
All we have to deal with is a few more variables, kills are still possible.
Kills are most certainly "still" possible however cruisers will be seeing extremely significant buffs this patch. As stated a dual web armor rax will easily slaughter any close range af it catches. With live rax stats, an enyo can easily kill one 1v1 even while webbed. The new tracking bonus + the option to field a second web means that AFs will be unable to speed tank or even dictate range within scram range. 600+ dps blows even dual masb hawks and harpies apart if they're dual webbed.
Expect to see allot of these rax's flying around, their performance against other cruisers and frigates is top notch and their significant speed buff means they will be able to run from anything able to face tank/kill them. XL ASB dual prop vagas may even have a hard time. |
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