| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tas Devil
   |
Posted - 2005.04.29 15:49:00 -
[1]
First... I would like to point that I am writing this post out of frustration... but will try my best to keep it constructive... the point is not to just rant about stealth bombers (and especially whether they are usefull or not) because I think usefullness depends on the use you wish to make of them... so a personal decision....but my problems lies in the various attributes of these ships... (I admit I have only tried 3 of the 4 as I cannot fly minmattar t2 frigs so my comments apply to the 3 other races only)
In no specific order ...
1) the speed bonus while cloaked isn't implemented as it is labelled !!! All 3 SBombers give a 25% bonus to speed while cloaked ... I have coverts ops skill to level 4 making a 100% bonus.... to this applies a -25% malus for using the t2 improved cloak ... this is simple math ... Xm/s x .75 x 2 = Xm/s x 1.5... which ever way you apply the bonus etc... it should always be that cloaked with covert ops level 4 skill your ship goes 50% faster then uncloaked... well guess what ... that's not what happens in game... base speed for my purifier is 215m/s * 1.25 (nav level 5) = 268.75 m/s .... as stated above cloaked I should get 403.125m/s ... guess what it tops at 335m/s... what it looks like is that the implemented bonus is only of 15% per covert ops level ... not 25% ... is this a now famous CCP typo ? or does the description state the correct intended amount of 25% per level but the math implentation was fubared ??? (if you guys are thinking like me that this is perhaps another instance of lack of Quality control ... well yeah I'm thinking like you ...  )
2) other covert ops skill bonuses : all SBombers apart from manti have a racial damage bonus of 5% per level in their corresponding damage type... the manti has an extra fitting bonus in order to be able to fit a 3rd cruise launcher...now without going into too much detail... is it better to fire volleys of 3 missiles or volleys of 2 with a max of 25% more damage per missile.... it doesn't take a maths degree to figure that the volley of 3 is better especially if you take into account potential defender missiles if you assume that your traget can knock 1 cruise out per volley with defender missiles... the manti is by far dealing more damage then the other SBombers... why is it so ? why are the 3 other races so gimped ? (this is even more so unfair when you take into account the fact that the manti has a damage bonus to racial missiles as well under the caldari frig skill bonus).
3) race frig level 5 bonuses ... the first one is a fitting bonus for all 4 ships of 19,65% per level so everyone gets the 98.25% reduction ...nothing to say here its like most t2 frigs they have a special fitting bonus for equipment required to pursue their mission...
BUT  what are the 2nd bonuses for ??? hybrid turret damage for the Nemesis and energy weapon cap usage for the purifier... most t2 frigs work well if they are used to do what they are made for and dedicated to one and one role only... so why please tell me should my SBomber diversify into a gun boat as well ? would it have been too far fetched to see ROF bonuses for missile launchers here ? or speed bonuses to cruise missile... basically something usefull and in line with the role of the ship ?  I cannot help but ask ... was CCP too lazy and did they just copy and paste other ships bonuses here ???
a last point on that bonus... again the caldari is given another advantage... by making its damage bonus dependent on the caldari frigate skill which all SBomber flyers have to level 5 they automatically have +25% dmg to kin missiles.... something other races will be hard pressed to match... cause I doubt that many people will go beyond training covert ops skill to level 4.... this makes no sense... there is no instance of a race having such superior bonuses in a small niche t2 frigate class... what it does mean is that caldari SBombers will fire 3 missiles at 125% dmg while others will fire 2 at 120% damage... no I'm really hard pressed to choose which one I want to keep .... and which one I want to chuck away...
4) the cloak... a lot have complained that the ship doesn't use the covert ops cloak... they have a point... least of which that the nice idea of surprising an ennemy with a cloak ship like CCP story developpers like to romance in their background stories that introduced the SBombers only applies if you have been sitting at that gate to gank your target for ages waiting for him to appear ... those story tellers forgot to include in their story that the SBomber flyers had spent 3 hrs doing nothing at a gate but watch traffic pass before finally ganking their victim.... sure we can adapt...sure its not impossible to find a role for the SBomber with the ability to fly to the target while cloaked... but it limits mobility and the fluidity of the game.... my view which is extreme is the following... see second post...
|
Tas Devil
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 16:01:00 -
[2]
either :
1) use the SBombers with cloaks on ... in static point defense roles... such as to protect your alliance system entrance points .... a gate covered by 10 SBombers cloaked and waiting to attack any intruder of your alliance space has got to impress a few .... even thought they might just pass through while all your very expensive fixed missile batteries decloak and recalibrate... any incoming inty will be long gone before anything happens of an aggressive nature... but as far as I am concerned this is the best use there is for cloaked Stealth bombers ...as the minute you travel you cannot cloak and hence you loose the surprise element ...
OR 2) This is really far fetched and shows in my opinion how unplanned these ships were .... USE THE SBOMBER WITHOUT A CLOAK AT ALL !!!! ... use it in packs to hunt large slow moving targets without a cloak so as not to have a recalibration time + scan resolution malus (yes equipping a t2 improved cloak means you not only have torecalibrate but you have a 40% slower lock time)... as soon as you move you are going to appear in front of your potential target anyway... so why cloak at all... and why bother equipping a cloak ? fit cruise missile bays in high sensor boosters in med and wcs and nanofibers in low... even maybe a webby or warp scrambler in med spread out amongst your pack... anything else is useless... hunt with such a setup in packs of 4 and you can do enough damage... and flee before your ennemy has a chance to kill you. Its absurd because the stealth bomber is then as stealthy as my grandmother on Xmas eve .... but I bet it works a lot better then with a cloak... cause a cloak implies cpu usage + the need to carry ECM burst or jammers to force your ennemy to loose his lock so as to cloak...
2 WCS will do the trick better in allowing you to run ....
ALL views are welcomed... I have tried to stay as constructive as I can on a topic that annimated me due to the clear lack of thinking through by CCP....
|
Tas Devil
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 16:03:00 -
[3]
BTW before people say anything about the suggestion not to use claoks... my main business in eve is to sell t2 improved cloaks and trade in them ... or other forms of cloaks... this post is potentially killing a revival in my main source of income... but in all fairness I am posting this even with the impact it could have on my sales...
|
Zaintiraris
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 16:31:00 -
[4]
It's a rant, but by disclaiming that in the topic, I totally ignored it. Therefore I can't confirm whether or not its a 'good' rant.
---
 Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
|
Zerobyte1
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 17:15:00 -
[5]
Well,
After being ORDERED to read this post by my CEO (Tas Devil), these are my thoughts.......
I agree that it has more of a use for being just a "Bomber" rather than a "Stelth Bomber"... all i can say, is,,,,Buy me one and ill try it...
:)
|
Darmed Khan
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 17:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zaintiraris
It's a rant, but by disclaiming that in the topic, I totally ignored it. Therefore I can't confirm whether or not its a 'good' rant.
I read the first bit, but then I got bored 
Originally by: Tas Devil
1) the speed bonus while cloaked isn't implemented as it is labelled !!! All 3 SBombers give a 25% bonus to speed while cloaked ...
There are 4 stealth bombers
Originally by: Tas Devil
I have coverts ops skill to level 4 making a 100% bonus.... to this applies a -25% malus for using the t2 improved cloak ... this is simple math ... Xm/s x .75 x 2 = Xm/s x 1.5...
You obviously haven't used a proto/improved cloak before.
The prototype cloak has a -90% speed penalty, so you move at 10% of your usual speed. The improved cloak has a -75% speed penalty, so you move at 25% of your usual speed.
Using the usual stacking formula, your speed with covert ops lvl 4 should be X * 0.25 * 2 = X * 0.5. Even with covert ops lvl 5 you wouldn't get the faster speed that the ship description claims, which is because the bombers are using a different formula:
Cloaked speed = Base speed * ((1-Cloak velocity penalty)+Covert ops skill*0.25)
So for covert ops lvl 4 and an improved cloak, you'd get:
Base speed * ((1-0.75) + 4*0.25) = Base speed * (0.25 + 1)
So while cloaked you'll travel at 125% of your original speed. With lvl 5 you'll get 150%, which is a pretty nice bonus if you can justify the training time needed.
|
Tas Devil
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 18:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Darmed Khan
Originally by: Zaintiraris
It's a rant, but by disclaiming that in the topic, I totally ignored it. Therefore I can't confirm whether or not its a 'good' rant.
I read the first bit, but then I got bored
Originally by: Tas Devil
1) the speed bonus while cloaked isn't implemented as it is labelled !!! All 3 SBombers give a 25% bonus to speed while cloaked ...
There are 4 stealth bombers
Originally by: Tas Devil
I have coverts ops skill to level 4 making a 100% bonus.... to this applies a -25% malus for using the t2 improved cloak ... this is simple math ... Xm/s x .75 x 2 = Xm/s x 1.5...
You obviously haven't used a proto/improved cloak before.
The prototype cloak has a -90% speed penalty, so you move at 10% of your usual speed. The improved cloak has a -75% speed penalty, so you move at 25% of your usual speed.
Using the usual stacking formula, your speed with covert ops lvl 4 should be X * 0.25 * 2 = X * 0.5. Even with covert ops lvl 5 you wouldn't get the faster speed that the ship description claims, which is because the bombers are using a different formula:
Cloaked speed = Base speed * ((1-Cloak velocity penalty)+Covert ops skill*0.25)
So for covert ops lvl 4 and an improved cloak, you'd get:
Base speed * ((1-0.75) + 4*0.25) = Base speed * (0.25 + 1)
So while cloaked you'll travel at 125% of your original speed. With lvl 5 you'll get 150%, which is a pretty nice bonus if you can justify the training time needed.
I wrote a disclaimer about commenting on only 3 of the 4 SBombers above mate ... as I cannot test the minnie one...
as far as your speed calculation ... my BAD... I used the cloaks info window when equipped showing a 25% speed bonus instead of looking at the module unequipped... so it seems you are right the speed bonus works as intended ... although why the cloak penalty is added to the covert ops skill bonus before being multiplied to base speed instead of the 2 multiplied to base speed independantly is beyond me ... its hardly how other bonuses in eve are applied... but hey you showed me how it works ...all the best
|
marioman
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 18:38:00 -
[8]
the caldari SBomber being better than the rest only makes sense from a RP perspective, seeing as caldari specialize in missles. None of the other races does missles as well as caldari so it only makes perfect sense for a cruise wielding SBomber being made by Caldari are superior over any other race's SBombers
I mean, which makes a better missle boat? Mega, Apoc, Tempest, or Raven?
|
Dirtball
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 18:57:00 -
[9]
I like being an Sbomber infact I have Energy PUlse weapons lvl 5. I hate acronyms
|
Weirda
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 19:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dirtball
I like being an Sbomber infact I have Energy PUlse weapons lvl 5. I hate acronyms
Translation on aisle 5 please! 
--
Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
|
|
Gierling
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 21:34:00 -
[11]
Actually if you think about the ranges that you can effectively use a cruise missille without a velocity bonus at, the guns are somewhat sensible.
With long range guns your hitting at about 20k, which is about as far as I'd be willing to fight someone in a stealth bomber.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Seraph Demon
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 21:59:00 -
[12]
I definately agree on the skills point, and either make it use the covert ops cloak or get rid of the stealth bonus, make them bombers, and give them some other more relevant bonus.
I for one, am not training up covert ops to use these ships as they are now.
|
Cracken
|
Posted - 2005.04.29 22:13:00 -
[13]
plz double space after every point or every few lines makes posts much easier too read.
|
Nova Ivanova
|
Posted - 2005.04.30 14:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zerobyte1
Well,
After being ORDERED to read this post by my CEO (Tas Devil), these are my thoughts.......
I agree that it has more of a use for being just a "Bomber" rather than a "Stelth Bomber"... all i can say, is,,,,Buy me one and ill try it...
:)
ROFL
|
Shocky
|
Posted - 2005.04.30 17:30:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Shocky on 30/04/2005 17:33:25
Tempest should be redesigned imo, its just a flying cube with bits sticking out with a crappy ship config also.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |