They really ought to split the classification for empire faction and pirate faction frigates since they are designed to be two separate tiers.

I think the price difference, now more than ever, is plenty to stop a real proliferation in pirate faction frigates. Also, some of the faction frigates can be very effective in countering the pirate ones.
The main problem now will not be faction versus pirate faction. It will be T1 versus faction. Most of them are worlds apart. Ships like the Hookbill can be fit as an effective counter to an enormous range of fits on T1 frigates and as is the privilege of frigates you just don't engage what you can't kill. A quick look at their speed and guns and you still have the time to warp off.

I thought the novice plexes were meant to be a playing group for the cheap ships. Currently they will not be, far from it in fact. And as I stated in my original post, there is no reason to ban destroyers from them if faction frigates aren't.

I think the price difference, now more than ever, is plenty to stop a real proliferation in pirate faction frigates. Also, some of the faction frigates can be very effective in countering the pirate ones.
The main problem now will not be faction versus pirate faction. It will be T1 versus faction. Most of them are worlds apart. Ships like the Hookbill can be fit as an effective counter to an enormous range of fits on T1 frigates and as is the privilege of frigates you just don't engage what you can't kill. A quick look at their speed and guns and you still have the time to warp off.

I thought the novice plexes were meant to be a playing group for the cheap ships. Currently they will not be, far from it in fact. And as I stated in my original post, there is no reason to ban destroyers from them if faction frigates aren't.

This has never been true imo. I always hear this argument that price is a barrier, but the fact is that there are lots of players in fw and the local pirate community, that have more then enough isk to field dd's and drams. Price is never a barrier if it was they wouldn't of nerved the dramiel

I think the new destroyers will fit well with the t2 frigates in the new small/minor plexes. If they were allowed in novice plexes then they might dominate 2 groups of plexes.

I think a lot of people are forgetting the buffs that frigates are getting. The role bonuses and whatnot of the t1 frigs are going to be glorious. Faction frigates are just another combat ship. There's still ewar and logi frigates that will work as support (ewar can essentially nullify a frig on its own) and it'll be fine. The goal of tiericide is to bring tactics to the tech 1 class anyway. Maybe we'll se structured gangs taking over minor plexes now? Don't fret at any rate. Destroyers aren't the only thing that will be able to keep pirate/faction frigates in check post patch.

this is true and whats nice is that a dd or dramiel is not gonna take on a goup of t1's and murder them anymore. Heck a merlin and griffin can take out anyone of these frigs. I guess i'm thinking more about solo 1v1 fights. Although like the other guy said if i'm in t1 ship i'm not gonna fight any of those ships without back up so they wont get fights but i'm not really arguing that. I'm more stating that it's let down for me that pirate frigs are allowed in novices because if it was only t1 or t1 and navy frigs then there would be a whole lot of fights. ships like dd's and dramiels in a novice won't promote fights it will promots guys in those ships sitting in plexes killing any t1's 1 v 1 or warping away when they see that there is two. I think novices would be better as just t1 or at most navy factions. Anyway i'm repeating myself hopefully others feel the same but either way i'm stoked about up comming changes and hope it leads to more small gang space fights then we currently have in gal v cal fw.

I am fascinated by usual bullshit of overpowered ships in eve .... huh .... AC thrasher can be killed one way .... 10mn ab cormy other one .... that how this game works. Unfortunately some CCP thinks that tears polishing is the way to design the game

and BTW Xgal ... some of the thrashers u posted are arty .... very easy to kill in ur usual blaster comet.

he never flew blaster comet :( always TD rail :(

he never flew blaster comet :( always TD rail :(

The Thrasher is the new rifter. It just doesn't realize it yet. Do you want a sniper? The new Corm can put 388 DPS out to 23km optimal. Within 5 seconds it can switch to 212 DPS at 83km. The new Beam Coercer tracks 30% better then an arty thrasher, switches ammo instantly, and ranges from 416 DPS at 14km to 241 DPS at 53 km. Firing every two seconds for both ships make them much more flexible. You don't have to wait until 'you see the whites of their eyes.'

Maybe a brawler is more your speed? The Algos puts out similar DPS to an armor thrasher and has 40%-45% more EHP. The new Catalyst has more gank, better projection, and is now faster then the Thrasher. The age of Winmatar is over.

Most of those Thrasher fits are actually pretty standard. Many of them are solo too.

The Thrasher is the new rifter. It just doesn't realize it yet.

Th The Algos puts out similar DPS to an armor thrasher and has 40%-45% more EHP.

Building 5 Algos hulls now. Need good fit. Any suggestions?

Building 5 Algos hulls now. Need good fit. Any suggestions?

So far it seems L1 and L2 can be omgwtfpwn'd by any T1 frig. So I expect farmers to have a field day once again. We'll be able to test out whether or not the limit on "over-contesting" systems helps or not.

Day of destroyers ... even new cruisers will be pretty ****** up ...

well anyway life of EVE .... in one cycle CCP buffs in another nerfs ....

So far it seems the first three levels can be omgwtfpwn'd by any T1 frig. So I expect farmers to have a field day once again.

And you seem to be complaining? We all know CCP didnt introduce timer rollback yet because Hans and frogs probably screamed it to CCP. They only want to have such things up when they have had proper time to entrench on that high-tier.

Don-¦t understand the whining here about the Hookbill.
As experienced Hook pilot I can tell it is really easy to counter because Hook really lacks dps in comparison to other faction frigs. Double repped Incursus can probably tank it infinitely.
The same issue like with all other caldari boats: Good tank but lame dps. Although lame dps at good range.

The thing with the Hookbill is not the tank and it's DPS is irrelevant. It has "enough" of it. It has 5 mids and that gives it the ability to both mitigate damage and completely dictate range at the same time. It makes it very hard to counter.
Yes, the Incursus will tank it forever. The Incursus will tank a lot of frigates forever. However, there is no way an Incursus with that fit can kill a hookbill, unless the pilot messes up severely.


Also: is it me or do the new destroyers have similar DPS to the old ones but with about twice the EHP?

Have you ever flown a hook? Because the brawler fits s....completely in fw. It has the same problem all caldari missile boats have: Low dps. You can get very good hook fits, yes.
But don-¦t tell me that ?&%$-º=? about mid slots and so on.
When an Incursus enters I can-¦t do nothing in a hook. Okay.... the brawler Hook will die to Incursus. Slasher and breacher is problematic too bur that depends very much on the fit. So first try and then write something. Hookbill is a great ship but you need hellish much experience with it to fly and fit it properly and you still be very helpless vs many targets.
Actually all tech 1 and non pirate faction frigs with exception of Punisher (because it s....) and Tormentor (see Punisher) are really good balanced. Okay executioner is also not as good like atron, slasher, condor.
What we really need on the frig sector is a rebalance of pirate faction frigs and tech2 stuff.
After some days of Retribution I can really say that CCP has done a great job with the new plexes.
I feared "plexorama2" but the new rats are great, rookie plex is super and although I had doubts, almost all improvements and changes to fw seem to be really good.