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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
484
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Posted - 2012.12.03 17:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Rek Seven wrote:You do realize this is a computer game and that ship you lost was just pixels and data, right? If you look at it this way, EVE totally falls apart at the seams. There's no risk, no reward, no nothing, since it's all pixels. In fact, from this point of view, EVE is no different from every other MMO out there, including WoW. All that is left is entertainment value, content, storyline, etc., of which EVE has precious little. And many folks like to avoid stress, in gaming anyway, because their daily lives are stressful enough as it is. Really nothing wrong with that. In fact, the way combat in EVE is done, it lends itself very well to low-stress gameplay, at least as far as PvE goes. Most other MMOs, even PvE can be very hectic and you constantly need to watch for respawns, patrols, live events, etc., all of which are absent in EVE (in a good way). Spawns are predictable and usually predicated on triggers, incoming DPS is often known, meaning if your ship fits a tank that can easily handle incoming DPS, it is impossible for you to die no matter how badly you screw up. Very few MMOs have that.
Oh there is nothing wrong with avoiding stress, I just think that if you suffer from crippling stress by playing a video game, then you need to do something about it or chage you out look. Hell, some peole chose to view life as a dream. They see me trolling, they hating... |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
391
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Posted - 2012.12.03 17:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why would I want my trade alts to leave hi sec? |

Traska Gannel
The Real OC The ROC
8
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Posted - 2012.12.03 18:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Here are some of the reasons from my perspective:
1) High sec feels safer. There are suicide gankers but to be honest they are usually only after worthwhile targets and most players are not worthwhile. 2) You can make income in high sec with relatively low risk. 3) You can always access your assets in high sec ... stations are always accessible. 4) You can do almost any activity in high sec except pvp ... you might be able to do them better in 0.0 or WH space but you can still do them and the additional reward does not appear to be equal to the perceived risk of 0.0 and low sec. 5) If you like mission running ... high sec is good ... the only player interference you might encounter are ninja salvagers (not really worth it at current salvage prices) and ninja looters (who can probably find more enjoyable ways to PVP). 0.0 and low sec missions are much more risky since they run out of areas that can be easily camped for the most part. 6) Mining in high sec is more problematic but if you mine in groups or with high hp mining ships the risk is less. In addition, ganking high sec miners is really only worthwhile when someone else is footing the bill and paying you for the kills (e.g. Hulkageddon).
Why is nullsec less attractive? 1) Logistics - if your corp/alliance is organized, supportive, friendly then getting stuff moved out there is pretty easy - industrialists stock local markets with reasonable markups ... but this is sometimes not the case. You can make loads of isk running anomalies and exploration sites but there is a certain amount of effort needed to get going. 2) 0.0 really needs team players and not everyone wants to be a team player. Standing fleets, home defense fleets, CTAs, owning and being able to fly appropriate doctrine ships ... ready in hangar at whichever system is selected as the jump off point. What you own and the skills you train are often dictated by the alliance you are with until you get those skills to an acceptable level ... T3 BC ... armor HACs ... Abbaddons .... Tengu. It can be expensive, time consuming and a significant commitment to be a member of a 0.0 alliance. 3) Renters. If you go to 0.0 as a renter or pet there can be a huge rental bill. Good PVE operations will usually easily cover it but folks need to be active on close to daily basis either PVE, mining or manufacturing to make it worthwhile. 4) 0.0 is generally not as casual/relaxed ... if you log in once a week for a few hours you could find your local station changed hands, your POS is gone, customs offices blown up. 0.0 isn't that good for casual play ... though there are parts of 0.0 that have remained stable for a long time and probably feel pretty safe. 5) Many 0.0 and all WH dwellers operate out of a POS. This requires trust. Shared access to Ship Maintenance Arrays and Corporate Hangar Arrays means that the corp is always vulnerable to theft. Of course, in 0.0 you are welcome to blow them up ... but by the time you realize you should have done that it is usually too late. 6) Cloaky campers can make it risky to do your every day activities. You can be forced into either doing nothing which is boring or risking a hot-drop. In high sec this can only happen during a war dec or possibly if you have somehow become a target for suicide gankers. 7) Gate camps can make it tough to get out there the first time ... but once you have a jump clone or two in place it is trivial t go back and forth. First timers in 0.0 also don't know the basic rules ... - never warp gate to gate ... you might be able to risk it if the system is empty but you still might end up in a drag bubble 100km off the gate you were warping to ... usually warp to a planet off the direct line between gates then to the exit gate - use dscan to see what ships are in space and within range ... get within dscan range of the exit gate to see if any folks are sitting waiting for you - use dotlan and the in-game tools to look for kills in the last hour and pilots in space ... this will often give a clue to gate camps.
What are the good things about nullsec? 1) In a good corp, with good people, it is fun! 2) It is generally safer than high sec ... in Alliance space with NBSI (not blue shoot it) ... the bad guys are easy to identify. 3) Intel channels and small lists of folks in local make spotting the bad guys really easy. 4) You can make a lot of ISK from PVE in null sec both from anomalies and plexes. 5) Opportunity to PVP - roams, fleet ops, gate camps
After you have lived in null sec for a while ... the local display in high sec feels dangerously full ... and most are neutrals (which is bad on the nerves :) ).
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Kimsemus
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
29
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Posted - 2012.12.03 18:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think everyone reacts to different situations differently. I am actually at the lowest "stress" level in big fights. Any trepedation I feel is completely wiped out by a burning adrenaline rush that no other game has been able to replicate for me (Except the occasional FPS match).
I feel like I'm at my finest when I'm a hictor bubbling enemy fleets or supers. When I FC, I eventually will flat out screaming targets because I am so excited about the fight and the kills, and especially winning.
In highsec, I just don't get that kind of rush. Just stress, just a desire to finish my business and go "home" to 0.0. I've had fun in lowsec too, but everyone is usually too afraid of everyone else to do anything real most of the time. |

Zim69
Zombie Apocalypse Redux
1
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Posted - 2012.12.03 18:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think its more of a generational thing really. In nullsec, u see alot of 5-9 yo old toons. Back when they first started, Nullsec was dynamic and full of excitement. Now its all locked down and has been for years, same people, same corps and alliances, stagnate, boring. Also gatecamps at most of the entrances, bubbles everywhere, hinder people of the second generation 2-3yo toons for exploring nullsec to any significant degree |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
81
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:But in a game that has an easy (too, too easy) counter to just about everything makes the other security areas of the game unviable for most standard gamepley functionality. When a T2 Transport with 4 stabs giving it Wapr Protection +6 can be countered with a single module providing focused interdiction..........that's handing out 'victories on a platter' with lazy effort: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14682167
You died in a transport, hauling a low value cargo that would fit into a blockade runner, to a group that had more than 6 points of scramble without the hictor, on a character that has the skill to fly a blockade runner and fit a covops cloak.
|

Merouk Baas
47
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
What's with you NC people and these questions? What keeps you from PVP'ing?Why aren't you leaving high-sec? Why are you a carebear? Why? Why?
Is this philosophy month or something? These threads are flame bait. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
1047
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:But in a game that has an easy (too, too easy) counter to just about everything makes the other security areas of the game unviable for most standard gamepley functionality. When a T2 Transport with 4 stabs giving it Wapr Protection +6 can be countered with a single module providing focused interdiction..........that's handing out 'victories on a platter' with lazy effort: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14682167 You died in a transport, hauling a low value cargo that would fit into a blockade runner, to a group that had more than 6 points of scramble without the hictor, on a character that has the skill to fly a blockade runner and fit a covops cloak.
Oh really. I had no idea what I was flying for once, just to give it a try. 
EDIT: not really sure what you are trying to accomplish beyond obviously stating the Obvious, just to be obvious. RIP Vile Rat-á "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." - Oscar Wilde |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2069
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kimsemus wrote: Tell me your stories: Why highsec?
Hi sec is where I do a lot of my business.
If I had something worth my time to do in nullsec I'd go back there in 10 minutes.
See today I had business at the end of a WH chain: went there like a man, in a shuttle (!!!) and full implants clone.
But then once I finished I returned back where ISK flows, ISK *I* can grab not some distant director at the top of the food chain. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Escomboli
Hammer Holding Wrong Hole.
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
Null sec has always been safer than High if you are in an alliance holding Sov. It takes very little effort to make your Sov safe once you hold it. Don't **** the wrong people off, join an alliance, set up JB highway, cyno-jammers, and you are free to do whatever you want. Why do you think the majority of botters are found in Sov held alliance null space? Because they run almost no chance of getting attacked.
This is the exact reason I think the wealth should be moved out of Null and into Low, and w-space. At least those areas have an inherent sense of danger about them.
Null-seccers are the true carebears of Eve. Who cares about PvP losses when your alliance replaces all of your ships? Who cares about PvP when you blob the **** out of everything? Who cares about the random rolling through your systems when your bot is automated to warp to a POS when a non-blue pops into local (please remove local from low/null ffs). Need isk? Go farm rats in your fully upgraded Sov that hasn't had a hostile through it in months. Get those officer spawns, high value ores, high value moon goo, great PI.
Really makes sense for CCP to push more and more of the game into null, the safest place in Eve. |

Be4st
Vengance Inc.
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 19:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Some of the highsec dwellers I have spoken to have said that they never have the need to leave highsec due to the ISK you can make there which I agree on. I PVP in low and null and highsec is the place I go to replenish my wallet. I do lvl 4's and that's it. The dwellers have said countless times that they have MASSIVE wallets and that is to do with Incursions which is wrong. (I refuse to do Incursions due to the stuck up elitist attitude where they will only take a 3 bill Tengu if it has T2 rigs. Personally, I reckon CCP should stick the Incursion HQ's in low or null to get these bears out of the safety of highsec.) |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1200
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 19:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Well, I do leave high sec, and in fact am currently in W-space. But the vast majority of my play time is spent on an alt in high sec. Why?
Stress. I do not like it. It makes me feel bad, sometimes sick. For some the stress of PvP combat gives them The Rush. For me it does the exact opposite, leaving me feeling drained and horrid. This is true on low sec roams Ive been on where we met nothing, or we met something and won. I do not play a game to feel drained and horrid. You do realize this is a computer game and that ship you lost was just pixels and data, right? I do know what you mean though. I used to feel stress a lot in fights (i got lower back pains sometimes) but the more i participated, the less the stress got to me.
When I lose a ship to the NPCs (not often, but it does happen. ) it hardly effects on me at all. Last one was a Proteus lost to WC4 where I totally screwed up target selection. "Hm, a billion plus isk gone. Guess Ill have to get another. Oh well." (Oddly I had another, one I stole during a low sec POS bash. My most recent PvP experience, about 6 months ago.) Its the knowledge that there is a person on the other keyboard that causes the stress. The fact that its PvP combat is the issue, a confrontational interaction with another person, not the medium by which the combat takes place, or what "material" is gained or lost as a result.
Ive tried to "get use" to it, but it seems that every exposure to the stress makes me more sensitive to it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10490
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kimsemus wrote:I know the Quarterly Economic Report has this statistic, but since such a disproportionately large population of the game either never leaves, or almost never leaves highsec Not quite. What the QEN (and the various population stats replacing it) has shown is that a large portion of characters never leave highsec.
Behind those numbers, it's not particularly hard to see an interpretation where some 2/3 people consistently sit outside of highsec, which isn't particularly disproportionate (although the numbers for lowsec might still be a bitGǪ offGǪ).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
717
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
because i make more isk in high sec. may as well leave all of my alts in high sec, move one character out of high sec and then funnel all the funds from the isk making wonder of high sec to my not-in-high-sec character for "fun times".
in short; it's because there's no reason to move out of high sec if you want to make isk. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Because my ships would not survive anyway and I have not yet found a home for myself in a corp to go do stuff out of high-sec. I see no point in going to low/null sec to get blown up if I have nothing to do there.
I'll see later in my eve time. |

Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
225
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kimsemus wrote:I know the Quarterly Economic Report has this statistic, but since such a disproportionately large population of the game either never leaves, or almost never leaves highsec Not quite. What the QEN (and the various population stats replacing it) has shown is that a large portion of characters never leave highsec. Behind those numbers, it's not particularly hard to see an interpretation where some 2/3 people consistently sit outside of highsec,..
Sure it is: there are no people sitting anywhere in EVE, only characters. And the vast majority of the characters never leave highsec.
Are there stats for where the majority of characters log in? Without that, any interpretation concerning people is just made up.
|

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Push poll anyone? Almost as if the OP is far less interested in GATHERING opinions than INFLUENCING opinions.
I play high sec because the rewards of low sec do not justify the risks, and the rewards of null do not justify the politics.
Yes, in high sec you can get ganked.... but I can't recall the last time I was ganked i high sec.... years for sure. In high sec the hasle is he war decs, but even those are fairly easily avoidable.
High sec... less BS. No afk cloakers, no hot drops, few gate campers, no roaving PVP gangs.
I'm an unashamed carebear. Since I have little to no interest in PVP, there is little reason for me to leave high sec and deal with the BS I have found elsewhere in game.
(Here is a hint. You can not make the rewards high enough in low or null to make it worth leaving high sec. I'd leave the game long before I moved to low, or moved back to null.) |

Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
142
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
Because I have no interest in dealing with sociopath, belligerent undesirables who take joy in ruining another persons fun.
Savages... |

Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
212
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:take joy in ruining another persons fun. I did some of that in high-sec last night. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
81
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Oh really. I had no idea what I was flying for once, just to give it a try.  EDIT: not really sure what you are trying to accomplish beyond obviously stating the Obvious, just to be obvious. See Post #10.
Why would you post the obvious if you didn't want it discussed. If you don't want stuff discussed, don't post it.
Re: post 10.
If you went to lowsec seeking PI, then suprise suprise you found it there. It is certainly not the most compelling content available in lowsec, nor the most lucrative (and more lucrative content can be found with a covops - essentially a dead safe business), and then run with a battlecruiser which can be T2 fit and insured, and they are pretty hard to lose if you keep the thing in a backwater station and don't run it through the border between low/high frequently.
|

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1935
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Leave high sec?
I rarely even leave my station. Space is too scary for me.
Mr Epeen  -ávOv |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
1056
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tauranon wrote: Re: post 10.
If you went to lowsec seeking PI, then suprise suprise you found it there.
Hardly. Been doing it almost daily for 2 years straight and lost nothing till that Bustard. THAT was my point, not your rambling nonsense. RIP Vile Rat-á "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." - Oscar Wilde |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5681
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:As surprising as it may be to some null/low-sec dwellers, some people really have no interest in the hassle of living outside of highsec. They don't want to deal with blob bubble camps, afk-cloakers, blops, and super carrier hot drops.
those are things that do not exist in wormholes ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10493
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:Sure it is: there are no people sitting anywhere in EVE, only characters. And the vast majority of the characters never leave highsec. GǪand that means nothing as far as telling how many of us have left highsec. That's the entire problem with the oft-cited population numbers and the conclusions people try to draw from them: we have absolutely no idea how many people are actual high-seccers and how many play their game outside of highsec. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
Andski wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:As surprising as it may be to some null/low-sec dwellers, some people really have no interest in the hassle of living outside of highsec. They don't want to deal with blob bubble camps, afk-cloakers, blops, and super carrier hot drops. those are things that do not exist in wormholes
Really? 
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10493
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Andski wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:As surprising as it may be to some null/low-sec dwellers, some people really have no interest in the hassle of living outside of highsec. They don't want to deal with blob bubble camps, afk-cloakers, blops, and super carrier hot drops. those are things that do not exist in wormholes Really?  No local = no AFK cloaking. No jumps = no hotdrops. No jumps = little to no point in blops. No jumps and no sov = no supercaps.
That just leaves the odd blob with bubbles, and you can blow those up with ease. So yes, really. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1388
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Be4st wrote:I refuse to do X because of my prejudicial misconceptions towards an aspect of the game I have no experience with You're part of the problem. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |

Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
225
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Malphilos wrote:Sure it is: there are no people sitting anywhere in EVE, only characters. And the vast majority of the characters never leave highsec. GǪand that means nothing as far as telling how many of us have left highsec. That's the entire problem with the oft-cited population numbers and the conclusions people try to draw from them: we have absolutely no idea how many people are actual high-seccers and how many play their game outside of highsec.
Except that the only data we have (as far as I'm aware, please feel free to point me to something else) is that a super-majority of characters never leave highsec.
Unless a corresponding super-majority of characters is also inactive, that quite definitely says something about the state of the game population.
|

James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1388
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:Tippia wrote:Malphilos wrote:Sure it is: there are no people sitting anywhere in EVE, only characters. And the vast majority of the characters never leave highsec. GǪand that means nothing as far as telling how many of us have left highsec. That's the entire problem with the oft-cited population numbers and the conclusions people try to draw from them: we have absolutely no idea how many people are actual high-seccers and how many play their game outside of highsec. Except that the only data we have (as far as I'm aware, please feel free to point me to something else) is that a super-majority of characters never leave highsec. Unless a corresponding super-majority of characters is also inactive, that quite definitely says something about the state of the game population. Tippia's point is that you have absolutely no correlation between characters and people. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10493
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Tippia's point is that you have absolutely no correlation between characters and people. ^^ This.
Yes, we have character distribution. This tells us squat about where the players live. In fact, one of the more sane interpretations would put roughly 1 in 3 players as GÇ£highseccersGÇ¥ and 2/3ds as low/null/w-spacers.
Hell, if you listen to the stories of the posting non-highsec population, you'd rather arrive at something along the lines of 120% of people living in null (but that mainly serves to illustrate why the forum-goers are not all that representative).  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
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