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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2005.05.09 03:24:00 -
[1]
Yesterday during combat, the use of eccm on my ship failed to do anything. The aggressor was in a megathron which has 4 mid slots only, so he can only use 4 ecm modules maxium. Even the best modules with skills can only put out about 8.4 each on that ship.
8.4x4= 33.6 strength Jamming.
I used 4 Extra Magno ECCM in my mids @ 4.84 points each. and 3 tech II Magno low slot backups as well which adds another 11 or so points.
My ship should have a sensor strength of 21 normal, + 19.5 from the midslot mods, and 11 from the low slot mods.
Thats a grand total of 51.5 or so. Now, during this 1 v 1, and we were the only people there, the other one had docked. I still failed to regain the ability to target.
This is crappy, and Needs to be fixed big time, especially for us ppl who are being jammed and basically have no way out of it to fight except for the use of ECCM.
Just to test this, a corp member and I later tried to reenact the situation.
I fitted all 4 mids with ECCM, and all 7 low slots with ECCM. He jammed me consistently with 3 race jammers.
SO just a warning to all, that ECCM IS BROKEN< BEWARE!
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Valchor
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Posted - 2005.05.09 03:29:00 -
[2]
what was the ranges? tonight i was messing around with it and i was jamming fine, just not well at close ranges
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2005.05.09 03:31:00 -
[3]
No what Im getting at is that once your jammed, you can't regain the ability to target with any amount of ECCM fitted.
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Valchor
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Posted - 2005.05.09 03:44:00 -
[4]
oh, srry
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Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.05.09 03:49:00 -
[5]
ECCM isn't broken, it just isn't useful anymore.
If you had a sensor strength of 51.5 and you went up against a Megathron pilot with lvl 5 Signal Dispersion and he was using 4x of the best named racial jammers he'd have a 53.7% chance of jamming you. If he was just using plain old non-named racial jammers he'd have a 46.7% chance of jamming you. If he didn't have signal dispersion skill at all and was using non-named racials he'd still have a 39% chance of jamming you.
If he can consistently jam you 100% of the time something is wrong.
Ok, so a corp member consistently jammed you with 3 racial jammers? Then something is wrong there. 3 of the best racial jammers and signal dispersion lvl 5 only gives a 43.8% chance of jamming you. Did you do this test just for 20 seconds, or did you spend a few minutes going through multiple jamming cycles to test out the statistics? Even if you didn't fit any ECCM modules he should only be able to jam you four out of every five 20 second cycles.
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`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.05.09 03:55:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Shaelin Corpius
Even the best modules with skills can only put out about 8.4 each on that ship.
8.4x4= 33.6 strength Jamming.
BTW, the best racial jammers give 7.2 jamming strength. Signal Dispersion lvl 5 gives a 25% boost, so 7.2*1.25 = 9 (not 8.4)
Also, jamming doesn't work as a group. Each module works seperately, so you can't just add up jamming strength to use it to find out jamming probabilities.
````````````` _ |\_
````````````` \` oo\
````````_____/ =__Y=
`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2005.05.09 04:01:00 -
[7]
So whats the point of jam strength? Why not just use % stats, so much less confusing.
And yes, we sat there for a long time trying to figure out wth is wrong with ECCM.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2005.05.09 04:29:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kashre on 09/05/2005 04:29:29
Originally by: Shaelin Corpius
So whats the point of jam strength? Why not just use % stats, so much less confusing.
Because the % chance changes with the relationship between jamming strength and sensor strength.
Quote:
And yes, we sat there for a long time trying to figure out wth is wrong with ECCM.
but I think you do have a point about ECCM. When the patch first went through a corp mate and I did some testing, running multispecs and racials one at a time against a ferrox. We got pretty much exactly the same success rate per jammers on a ferrox with no EW active, and a ferrox with 3 mid-slot ECCMs running. We ran roughly 20 cycles of each type of jammer.
Here's another question: how do you figure out what the % chance of a jammer working is? Is it just JammerStrength/SensorStrengthx100? Cause that doesnt seem right. We didnt do hundreds of cycles or anything to get good results, but from what we saw a single multispec with 0 skills effecting its strength could jam a ship with 17 points of sensor strength about 16-18% of the time... which seems a bit low
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.05.09 05:08:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hakera on 09/05/2005 05:08:44
Yes, imo the eccm values are too low to make a difference they should make given the slot dedication and ability of jamming to work regardless of these modules.
Given Kashre's example
1 multispec against a 17 point ship =
4/17 = 24.7% chance. Lets say they use a t2 eccm booster for +4.8 strength
4/21.8 = 18.3% chance - not really worth a slot dedicated to it is it?
imo - the eccm module strengths should at least be doubled.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
anter
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Posted - 2005.05.09 05:21:00 -
[10]
Best defence against ECM at the moment is use ECM yourself. ECCM is useless now, since no matter how many you stack enemy still have change to jam even if he had just 1 ECM, which is well worth of sacrifice one slot, if you have skills in ew, because once it work its like 'i win button'. 
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