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CCP Gargant
C C P C C P Alliance
243
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's that time again! CCP Recurve has a new blog written about the state of price indices after the changes that were made to mining barges and exhumers on August 8th. For those of you who have been waiting for an update on the economic side of EVE Online, this is for you.
Head on over to read the whole thing
Feel free to discuss this blog and leave feedback in this thread. CCP Gargant | Community Representative | EVE Illuminati |
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
286
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
So this kinda shows that the barge changes screwed the ice market, maybe ice should become depletable. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Freezehunter
323
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maybe I don't understand macroeconomics, but if people have been mining so damn much compared to the past, how come **** is like 40%-60% more expensive than I remember it 2 years ago if there is such an ore surplus in the system?
Shouldn't prices be going DOWN with all these miners? Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
657
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Now do one for cruisers!
PS. About 50k of those barges were goons at the very least. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Dusty Meg
Redbull Air Race Inc
43
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Maybe I don't understand macroeconomics, but if people have been mining so damn much compared to the past, how come **** is like 40%-60% more expensive than I remember it 2 years ago if there is such an ore surplus in the system?
Shouldn't prices be going DOWN with all these miners?
Because the main source of minerals back then got took out, The drone alloys Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
286
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Maybe I don't understand macroeconomics, but if people have been mining so damn much compared to the past, how come **** is like 40%-60% more expensive than I remember it 2 years ago if there is such an ore surplus in the system?
Shouldn't prices be going DOWN with all these miners? After the barge changes titanium went down about 1isk per unit, which is a lot considering. Part of the problem is that there is so much isk in circulation right now. Another thing is most of the people mining are looking for passive afk income in high sec, the system where I base out of I see around 20 afk ice miners. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
657
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
One thing I want to point out here before it gets lost in the noise. The spike in production of Procurers and Retrievers had basically nothing to do with their new usefulness. (They aren't). It had everything to do with their increased mineral costs coming in. In some cases 400%+. It was a no brainer hit.
Thank god I already cashed out half my stockpile to recover all my initial investment before this blog hit. Holla. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
212
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nice numbers and graphics!!! As an Engineer I really appreciate them!!!
I wonder How a POS revamp would change them... Now the main dificulties of setting up a minning OP in null/ WH space is the lack of usability of the POS... It would probably send more People out of Hi-sec to the unknown to mine and build.... Please read this! > New POS system ( Block Built - Starbasecraft) Please read this! >-á[Debate] - ISK SINK |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
243
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'd like to see how the new Ore Frigate effects volume of gas mined as well as other data. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3898
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Holy hell we cut empire mining by half.
One out of every two peasants in the entire galaxy either put to the sword or forced to flee in terror that is one hell of a good job hi5s all around |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3898
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
I believe the hulk figures also show that the mining changes - which were based on max yield being the thing that miners should "pay" the most for - were misguided. What miners love - and what they're choosing - is legalized botting: with the current mackinaw setups they need about two minutes of attention per hour. It's clear these need to be rebalanced with this in mind: to get your legalized botting setup you should be the least gank-resistant, not the second-most, while hulks should have the second-most gank resistance. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
576
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nice, lots of graphs. I ******* love graphs ! FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
750
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Based on the increased diversity of mining barges used,
yeah, except there isn't. your graphs even show that the only thing to happen was people dumped their hulks for mackinaws since the tiny yield difference wasn't worth sacrificing a better tank, and an ore bay almost equal to the orca's.
ccp, your rebalance for exhumers failed horribly. you simply crowned another king instead of making any meaningful changes, as i predicted in numerous threads before the patch went live. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
439
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aryth wrote:One thing I want to point out here before it gets lost in the noise. The spike in production of Procurers and Retrievers had basically nothing to do with their new usefulness. (They aren't). It had everything to do with their increased mineral costs coming in. In some cases 400%+. It was a no brainer hit.
Thank god I already cashed out half my stockpile to recover all my initial investment before this blog hit. Holla. That's what I thought as well. That graph isn't very useful but maybe a comparison to total market sales at that time would be helpful to see if it was just market activity
The rest of the blog is interesting though.
Why no discussion about rebalancing ores? Abcm are no longer top of the chain like they should be (yes they should be because that's how mining was designed).
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
575
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aryth wrote:One thing I want to point out here before it gets lost in the noise. The spike in production of Procurers and Retrievers had basically nothing to do with their new usefulness. (They aren't). It had everything to do with their increased mineral costs coming in. In some cases 400%+. It was a no brainer hit.
Thank god I already cashed out half my stockpile to recover all my initial investment before this blog hit. Holla.
Yeah, people were wondering how long it was going to take before the prices return to near mineral value ... i guess now we know there's only a stockpile of 250k+ retrievers out there made at the lower cost.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3898
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Aryth wrote:One thing I want to point out here before it gets lost in the noise. The spike in production of Procurers and Retrievers had basically nothing to do with their new usefulness. (They aren't). It had everything to do with their increased mineral costs coming in. In some cases 400%+. It was a no brainer hit.
Thank god I already cashed out half my stockpile to recover all my initial investment before this blog hit. Holla. Yeah, people were wondering how long it was going to take before the prices return to near mineral value ... i guess now we know there's only a stockpile of 250k+ retrievers out there made at the lower cost. procurers, not retrievers |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
750
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Why no discussion about rebalancing ores? Abcm are no longer top of the chain like they should be (yes they should be because that's how mining was designed).
i have a feeling that they're saving that for a blog about null sec industry as a whole. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Silent Infinity
50
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
the "mining barges" graph, for the larger image, links to the Exhumers_Produced.png, could you please fix this?
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
813
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Graphs |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
284
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Graphs \o/
- Nulla Curas |
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Lucent Setien
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
As a new player this type of information both intrigues and scares me. It all seems so daunting. |
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CCP Gargant
C C P C C P Alliance
244
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Magic Crisp wrote:the "mining barges" graph, for the larger image, links to the Exhumers_Produced.png, could you please fix this?
Yes, I fixed that. You should only have to refresh the blog. CCP Gargant | Community Representative | EVE Illuminati |
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
984
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
It's been said, but I'm saying it again.
"Diversity"?
Really?
What we're seeing is not diversity but a 1:1 or greater replacement of hulks with mackinaws. Over time I expect hulk usage will decrease, in fact!
From the blog you seem to almost get it, if the afk mining comments are any indication, but I figure I'll spell it out.
Mining is boring.
Because mining is boring, players always gravitate to the best isk:effort ratio.
Previously to the revamps, the best ratio was the hulk, because all the ships were the same, just lower or higher yield. Therefore, the hulk was king.
Now the mackinaw is a thing. You can get like 90% of the volume for a fraction of the effort - the mackinaw unloads its cargo every twenty-ish minutes, while the hulk is every three. Sixfold drop in effort for a 10% drop in yield is a no-brainer, and the better tank is like a cherry on top.
In short, ya'll screwed up. Lately you've been, for better or worse, pretty good about addressing your screw ups. How about another look at this one? This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
839
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Aryth wrote:One thing I want to point out here before it gets lost in the noise. The spike in production of Procurers and Retrievers had basically nothing to do with their new usefulness. (They aren't). It had everything to do with their increased mineral costs coming in. In some cases 400%+. It was a no brainer hit.
Thank god I already cashed out half my stockpile to recover all my initial investment before this blog hit. Holla. That's what I thought as well. That graph isn't very useful but maybe a comparison to total market sales at that time would be helpful to see if it was just market activity The rest of the blog is interesting though. Why no discussion about rebalancing ores? Abcm are no longer top of the chain like they should be (yes they should be because that's how mining was designed).
ABCs might not be top of the pile (A is close, B and C are below some highsec ores) but they do have one significant benefit. They refine down far smaller, making transport logistics far far easier, than transferring the trit you got from your millions of m3 of Veldspar. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
752
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
corestwo wrote:In short, ya'll screwed up. Lately you've been, for better or worse, pretty good about addressing your screw ups. How about another look at this one?
last paragraph of the dev blog wrote:it would seem safe to assume that the changes to mining barges and exhumers turned out well.
unless you like looking like a smurf; i wouldn't hold your breath. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
288
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Maybe I don't understand macroeconomics, but if people have been mining so damn much compared to the past, how come **** is like 40%-60% more expensive than I remember it 2 years ago if there is such an ore surplus in the system?
Shouldn't prices be going DOWN with all these miners?
Something important to remember as well is that all the rebalanced frigates, destroyers, and cruisers have had their manufacturing costs increased.
Pre-Retribution it required about 2000 trit to build a Bantam, Navitas, or Burst. Now it requires over 20000 per ship. The same change in manufacturing cost happened for the Slasher, Atron, Condor, Executioner, and Tormentor in earlier releases.
The other frigates were increase, but the effects not so dramatic. Also, there's been a heavy emphasis on stockpiling, among people I talk to, for the next hulkageddon or whatever. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1099
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Now give us a graph showing Mining Vessels destroyed. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
839
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
/me mutters about the falling prices, thus profit margin, on many T2 goods.
The falling costs don't impact enough to make up for the falling sale price. Oh well, diversification keeps things interesting. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3901
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
*legalized botting explodes*
hmm what excellent balancing we did |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1222
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Posted - 2012.12.06 17:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
The large ore hold may make the Mack the king of ice mining, but not ore mining. But the Mack was the ice mining king before, so whats new? In the case of ore, its a rare high sec roid field where you can aim 2 strips at 2 roids then 24 minutes later return to a full hold. Many roids deplete in a single strip cycle. If you really want to see mineral prices go down, CCP should refactor roid fields to having fewer roids, each with more ore. That way ore can be mined like ice is mined, with little effort.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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