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Lowa
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:30:00 -
[1]
Hi,
Maybe its me that is a total n00b but when I jam a target shouldnt its
missiles be "out of order" after that?
(Just like they behave when a target warps out and you loose lock?)
Last night during a couple of very nice battles I was hit constantly by
a ravens torps despite the fact that I managed to jam him several times.
This was also true for the scorpion that also fired on me.
If a turret ship is jammed his guns stop doing damage instantly so why are
missiles not operating under the same rules?
I havent tested this extensivly but I have it on fraps and that string of missiles
just keeps coming my way and hurting my poor ship. Doesnt feel right! 
Any comments?
Cheers,
LOWA
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:33:00 -
[2]
did you jam him before or after he launched some torps at you because jamming wont afect the ones already launched
Also there are fira and forget cruise missiles and they dont need targeting to work
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Grosvenor Corama
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:33:00 -
[3]
Doesn't that kinda make sense? Both missiles and turrets require a lock when firing, the damage is delayed on the missiles, but otherwise they're pretty much equal in this regard are they not?
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:33:00 -
[4]
Interesting point.
Torpedos at least have been touted as 'unguided' missiles. Rockets too. That might imply they could be jammed. CMs/Heavys/Standards/Defenders are all 'guided' missiles though, that might have on-board guidance, and would not be easily jammed without an ECM Burst affecting them, and even so, their onboard computers might be immune.
Either way, in short, I do not think that would be fair, since a Raven shoots a torpedo at you and you've got like 30 seconds to jam him to kill that torpedo, where your... lets say armageddon has to be jammed constantly in order to keep away the damage. From a balance standpoint, you really can't effectively argue that it should work that way without changing how all turrets work.
---
 Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Lowa
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cosmic Dragon
did you jam him before or after he launched some torps at you because jamming wont afect the ones already launched
Also there are fira and forget cruise missiles and they dont need targeting to work
He fired a couple, got jammed, fired some more, jammed again and so on.
This was true for both the raven and the scorp.
I agree if it was cruise missiles but torps are NOT guided. AFIK.
They should be dead in the water after the link to the firecontroll in the ships is gone.
By looking at the kill mail I can see he had both torps and cruise but the damage
done (and shiny graphics on fraps) suggests that torps hit as well.
I need to test some more, Im not saying that it should not be this way because
if I can keep it jammed 80-100% the damage output from FoF/cruise are not that bad.
I was just interessed to see if anyone else have seen this and what you think about it.
Cheer,
LOWA
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Antic
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:47:00 -
[6]
dont think we can really call them guided. Its not like we can change their targets midflight. They are more like "fire and forget". Wich means the missile will go to its designated target after launch with no further need for interaction from the pilot. Cruise missiles of today in RL works that way and the aamraam (sp?) Anti aircraft missile also.
So if this is the future then wheres the logic that the already fired missiles of the raven should loose its target when the raven gets jammed? :P
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.09 15:50:00 -
[7]
FOF missiles dont require a lock.
FOF = Friend or Foe
They work like Defenders, cept go for ships and drones, not other missiles.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Farjung
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Posted - 2005.05.10 01:28:00 -
[8]
Mm, not sure if it should be changed or not, but that's the way it's been for a while. Hence why you can lock something, fire a few torps its way, unlock it and rely on it dying.
"If a turret ship is jammed his guns stop doing damage instantly so why are missiles not operating under the same rules?"
Well it's the same in both cases - as soon as you jam the turret ship, you stop him sending any more damage your way, and as soon as you jam the missile ship you stop it launching any more missiles at you. It's just that the damage the turret ship sends at you before being jammed lands instantly, whereas there is the missile travel time that means that the damage the missile ship sends your way takes a little while to arrive.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.05.10 03:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Antic
dont think we can really call them guided. Its not like we can change their targets midflight. They are more like "fire and forget". Wich means the missile will go to its designated target after launch with no further need for interaction from the pilot. Cruise missiles of today in RL works that way and the aamraam (sp?) Anti aircraft missile also.
Better example would be the AIM-7 sparrow vs the AIM-120 AMRAAM. The AIM-7 requires(ed) that the firing aircraft keep the target radar locked at all times in flight - the missile didn't have an active radar system, but it could read what the firing aircraft had "painted." The AIM-120 however has an onboard radar - but the firing aircraft's pilot still has to designate where it wants to the missile to go. But, once the AIM-120 leaves the rail and the target is in range of the missile's own radar, the firing aircraft can break lock and go on its merry way.
AIM-120s can also be fired as a "maddog" - without a target. This however is dangerous because the missile has no idea what is a friendly aircraft and what is a hostile aircraft - all it can see is metal in the sky.
I tend to think of rockets and torps as the AIM-7 variety - they're "guided" but not autonomous. "Targetted" missiles are of the AIM-120 variety - they require you to designate a target but after that they can figure the rest out. FOFs are kind of like AIM-120s without a designated target, but have extra electronics so they know what is hostile.
BTW- RL cruise missiles couldn't hit an aircraft if they tried. :) If you're going to use RL analogies then CMs = CMs, heavies = AIM-54s, lights = AIM-120s and rockets = AIM-9s; but that doesn't work too well. :)
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Phoenicia
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Posted - 2005.05.10 07:54:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Phoenicia on 10/05/2005 07:56:05
Note that to-hit chance on the Sparrow was on average 35% and on the Amraam 80%. The Sidewinder (aim-9) is on 85%.
But that comparison is pointless. We¦re talking torps, CMs, heavies, lights and rockets.
If you MUST have an rp reason for the above statement, hows this: When a pilot warps out, the missiles instantly and automatically deactivate their guidance as the pilot no longer has an overview of the battlefield, a sa***uard against being unable to anticipate changing battlefield conditions.
When a pilot is jammed, it doesn¦t matter because the missiles are self-guided and do not need the pilot¦s sensors to find their intended target.
--edit--
I cant say f.e.g. and thus it was censored in the word s.a.f.e.g.u.a.r.d?! Sa***uard! Yup, spelled correctly! Lol 
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CCP deleted my sig pic cause it was 50 pixels too wide and all I got was this lousy text. |
Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.05.10 08:15:00 -
[11]
After being jammed once I cannot believe the Raven Pilot didn't swop over to FoF's as your scorp will hold agression for over 15 mins even if you warp out and back.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2005.05.10 08:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lowa
If a turret ship is jammed his guns stop doing damage instantly so why are missiles not operating under the same rules?
Because they are missiles not guns???
Guns and missiles don't work the safe way in real life or in other games so why should they work the same way in EVE?
Jamming a ship stops it from firing. With turrets this means it stops doing damage immediately. This is ok since the gunboat has already done damage. With missiles it means missiles stop doing damage, however the missiles it has already fired keep going. This means that the missile boat still has a chance of doing damage. It would be unfair if missiles just dropped out of the sky as soon as ou were jammed since it would mean that missileboats wouldn't have a hope in hell of doing damage.
As has been said probably thousands of times before on these forums guns and missiles both have their own strangths and weaknesses. With guns you get insntant damage but with range limits meaning that there's a chance the shot wont hit. With missiles, unless the target it moving fast or has defenders you are pretty much guarenteed a hit, but have to wait for the damage to come. This leaves missile boats sitting in the water and having to out tank instant damage by guns.
Gunboats have the advantage in short battles since instant damage can rip someone's tank up before missiles have even hit. Missile boats have the advantage later on in a battle since the stream of damage (if they are firing properly) has started to do damage.
This is just a general statement not intended to be aimed directly at this thread: Play to the strengths of you Race and stop whining about other races being too powerful please, i'm getting sick of reading people whining on posts about things being 'overpowered' or 'underpowered' or too 'uber'. Seriously - if you can't use the advantages of your own race to your advantage then maybe you shouldn't be playing EVE. This is a game of tactics as well as brute force.
________________________________________________
Stop Whining!!!
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Lowa
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Posted - 2005.05.10 12:11:00 -
[13]
Flash, you need to cool it. You realize you're whining about whiners right? 
But you are right, and again, I AM NOT saying it shouldnt be this way because
I also agree on that if the Raven got jammed halfway so to speak loosing all
launced missiles would be... silly. Especially the guided one's.
Now the torps on the other hand... i STILL think that they should have a little
bit of a problem, if you move. When launched without on board guidance they are
like "normal" torpedos, they will hit the target assuming the target DONT move.
If I move my ship, after the jam, the torps should continue but not change course.
They will now what target they were launched at but if that target moves should go
on their merry way passing other ships with out detonating.
They are very powerfull but not that bright. 
But I also realize this is not a solution that will go down and I fully accept that
because the missile ships need all the loving they can get.
Just wanted to see what the rest of you geeks would think of it and before you know
it there is a fully detailed description on how the real stuff works.
Cheers,
LOWA - now...anti-missiles/torp-guns, where do I find those?
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
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