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Swethren
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Posted - 2005.05.10 13:48:00 -
[1]
Hi there
New to the forum and I've been playing for about a month, so general "hi" to everyone.
I have a question regarding covert op ships. I've been told that once someone has a target lock on you, you can't cloak. This seems a bit silly and kind of seems to make the ship somewhat useless to me.
Can anyone give me a complete run down of how these ships actualy work ?
Thanks
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Phoenicia
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Posted - 2005.05.10 14:09:00 -
[2]
They are quite useful, in fleet engagements against another corporation or alliance. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if one side uses Cov ops and the other does not, then the one that does wins.
A Covert Ops ship can use a Covert Ops Cloak II, which enables it to fly at about 90% of nominal speed while cloaked, and allows it to warp cloaked.
Basic rule in these: Uncloak and youŚre dead. Cause yes, once someone has a lock on you, you can no longer cloak. TheyŚre useless solo, and useless in Pve.
Their only use is being the single most effective forward scouts and mobile instas that one can think of.
On rare occasions it can be useful to decloak. When you catch an enemy Apoc mining somewhere and wish to hold him for when your fleet arrives, for example.
As one of my corpmates said: TheyŚre paper bags. Wet ones.
Being invisible is your greatest and only advantage, and you never get on any killmails.
---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---
CCP deleted my sig pic cause it was 50 pixels too wide and all I got was this lousy text. |
Farjung
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Posted - 2005.05.10 14:42:00 -
[3]
Slight corrections here...
Covert ops cloak II has no speed penalty - you move at the same speed cloaked as uncloaked.
Covert ops ships are meant to be the safespot busting scan probe launching ships, and they're the best suited to this task certainly. Unfortunately scan probes are of limited use as most competent opponents will move as soon as they see you launch probes, because they appear on the scanner.
Pre-EW changes they were a great supporting EW ship - my helios could run 4 damps indefinitely, and 4 damps + 2 small drones = a very helpless battleship. Unfortunately the cap usage has been upped so this setup doesn't work any more, but covert ops can be slightly more versatile than just "forward scouts and mobile instas". As for never getting on killmails, if that kind of thing means a lot to you, they're not the right ships for you really as they won't make your e-peen much bigger :(. However, I've managed to get 29 participations in my Helios, much to the annoyance of those I fly with :D
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.05.10 14:49:00 -
[4]
Covert Ops ships are also excellent for Bookmarking infested hostile systems.
There are limits on this however. A heavily camped gate is very dangerous to get near.
The FIRST thing you do when entering a system is make a safe spot. If you are ever forced to uncloak (for example, a fast moving enemy ship got too close, which can happen even if they don't see you...), you warp immediately to that Safe Spot, assuming you live to warp out.
What Covert Ops Frigs are NOT is damage dealers or tanks. Stealth Bombers are CCPs attemtp to make a Covert Ops ship with some limited damage potential, but at present Stealth Bombers are are weak ships. I expect they'll get a modest buff over the next month or three.
CCP has put real effort into making sure that cloak ships have serious penalties and/or weakness and/or Limits that CANNOT be ignored. Wise policy.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.05.10 16:50:00 -
[5]
Do the bombers cloak?
You can mount and offence in yoru coops. for instance, those*****y frigate pilots that fly around like they are invencible. You can sneak up on them and get a lock if they sit still ever.
Then they will flail around like a pinned rat, but death is inevitable. (unless your jam misses, in which case death is inevitable...)
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Lidza
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Posted - 2005.05.11 14:59:00 -
[6]
CoverOPS frigs are a bit useless at moment.
The fact that they can't jump while cloaked, also can't lock while decloaking or cloak while others are locked make any CoverOPS frigate only usefull for one unique thing.
Bookmarking... and when there aren't gate-campers.
So I question their praticality and the necessary time wasted on the skills for them.
CoverOPS require a revision to make those ships usefull for something else beside Bookmarking.
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.05.11 15:05:00 -
[7]
Bookmarking when there aren't any gatecampers? I've bookmarked half of the routes I frequent with a Buzzard, and I really didn't mind any gatecampers :)
I agree with the actual use of a covert ops ship at present however - there is no much you can do for "yourself" in a covert ops. Either you're relaying intel, or you're making bookmarks. That's pretty much it at the moment.
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.05.11 15:09:00 -
[8]
For reasons already stated, Covert Ops Frigs are VERY useful and EXTREMELY powerful,...but.... NOT as direct damage dealers and NOT as ships 100% immune to possibility of getting caught and killed.
If a Covert Ops ship or two can get in a good position near an enemy/enemy group, that enemy better be lined up to warp and in motion, or that enemy is dead.
As for Stealth Bombers, they are very limited. They have 2 special bonuses: They a Cruise Missile firing Frigates, and they move fast while cloaked. Otherwise they are even weaker than Covert Ops Frigs, because they cannot warp while cloaked. (No, CCP will not give you a warping cloaked damage dealer, accept it....)
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.05.11 18:23:00 -
[9]
Cov ops are the difference between people finding my ganking an annoyance and them finding it something to genuinely fear and assemble a blob of their alliance lackeys to repulse. Cov ops allows me to fight 99% of the time under the best circumstances for ME, not my opponent.
They are incredibly useful! I can sit my cov ops somewhere and have it observe in general who comes and goes in a zone all day and this is free from fear of having some ingenuious and persistant guy bust my safespot. And when the need calls for it I can inspect and monitor more closely.
Lots of forum idiots and hell, ingame idiots in general, talk sheit about how good intel isn't worth as much as good combat skills, but fact is it's worth more.
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.05.12 07:20:00 -
[10]
They also serve as a nice warp in point for a gang |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.05.12 07:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Gariuys on 12/05/2005 07:52:15
Covert ops aren't for your own benefit no. But they're the absolute best anti sniper ship around. 
Oh, and you can have some fun with stealth bombers, unlcoak, fire some missiles, jam whoever is targeting you, and recloak. You won't be dishing out stupid damage, but it sure is fun to do.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.05.12 07:57:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Gariuys
Edited by: Gariuys on 12/05/2005 07:52:15
Covert ops aren't for your own benefit no. But they're the absolute best anti sniper ship around.
Oh, and you can have some fun with stealth bombers, unlcoak, fire some missiles, jam whoever is targeting you, and recloak. You won't be dishing out stupid damage, but it sure is fun to do.
Actually, thats uncloak, wait 30 seconds, get pwned. Then think wtf? I just spent HOW MUCH on that pos? (no - not player owned station)
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.05.12 08:32:00 -
[13]
30 seconds is bull. And overpaying is your problem.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Lidza
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Posted - 2005.05.12 09:44:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lidza on 12/05/2005 09:47:29
Originally by: Deepeh
Bookmarking when there aren't any gatecampers? I've bookmarked half of the routes I frequent with a Buzzard, and I really didn't mind any gatecampers :)
I agree with the actual use of a covert ops ship at present however - there is no much you can do for "yourself" in a covert ops. Either you're relaying intel, or you're making bookmarks. That's pretty much it at the moment.
I would agree if was not possible to lock a frig in a split of second. (I was talking about After-jump not warping to-the-gate)
Interceptors can and do lock frigs including CoverOps in split of second.
So the time that you take to jump-decloak to hit your cloak is enough for them to get a lock on you.
So practically you know the concequences... once locked you cannot cloak... just run away if you can.
So gatecampers are an issue Yes! When if one or more interceptor pilots (pros) are around.
Therefore not even a CoverOPs in that circustances wouldn't save you from seen your pod or even waking your clone.
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Zaneg
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Posted - 2005.05.12 10:13:00 -
[15]
Havent flown a cov ops. But what about flying out of catch-up-and-lock range then decloak for teh warp ? Inty with mwd means quite a distance, but still.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.12 10:21:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim Steele on 12/05/2005 10:24:13
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Do the bombers cloak?
Any ship cloaks with a cloaking device installed the stealth bombers just cant fit covert ops cloaks so they have to wait an insane ammount of time to lock by which time you are either dead or your prey has warped. I Think they are best used at extreme ranges, to gank frigates, since with a sensor booster they lock from great distance, the frig cant lock back and thus you can cloak while your missiles travel.
A passive targeter might make them intresting, fire off a volly cloak and hope the ship doesnt realise it has cruise coming at it until its too late.
Again the missile nerf will make these ships completely useless v's frigs and they are already completely useless v's BSes so im thinking they need a massive buff in damage to make them fragile but hard hitting damage dealers.
Death to the Galante |
DeODokktor
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Posted - 2005.05.12 10:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gariuys
30 seconds is bull. And overpaying is your problem.
Why do you say it's bull
Sensor Recal time... 20s on a Improved cloak, 30s on a proto cloak.
The Reactivation time is also 30s and someone will have lock'd you by then.
But to be honest.. I like it "how it is" .. You will not get gank'd by cloak'd ships.. You'll get gank'd buy guys who are going to fire & cloak (hopefully) ..
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.05.12 10:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: Gariuys
30 seconds is bull. And overpaying is your problem.
Why do you say it's bull
Sensor Recal time... 20s on a Improved cloak, 30s on a proto cloak.
The Reactivation time is also 30s and someone will have lock'd you by then.
But to be honest.. I like it "how it is" .. You will not get gank'd by cloak'd ships.. You'll get gank'd buy guys who are going to fire & cloak (hopefully) ..
Well, if you're using a proto cloak on such an expensive piece of equipment that's a waste right there. And an improved cloaking device II has cloaking 3 as a pre-req, and cloaking reduces the recalibration time by 10% per level. So with cloaking 3 your recalibration time would be 0.7 * 20 = 14 seconds, quite a bit less than 30 seconds. Still far from ideal, but anyway.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Sharp Blue
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Posted - 2005.05.12 11:04:00 -
[19]
Knowledge is Power
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Dahin
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Posted - 2005.05.12 11:31:00 -
[20]
Any gang with no cov ops is like a drunken person walking in a minefield.
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Halle Berri
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Posted - 2005.05.12 12:02:00 -
[21]
why are stealth bombers under the covert ops section if you can even use a covert ops cloak ? 
were ccp drunk when they put stealth bombers in game ? 
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Rodge
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Posted - 2005.05.12 15:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Halle Berri
why are stealth bombers under the covert ops section if you can even use a covert ops cloak ?
were ccp drunk when they put stealth bombers in game ?
If you could use a covert ops cloak on a stealth bomber, then there'd be no real point in the covert ops ship, would there?
I agree that stealth bombers need some kind of a boost as they are a bit too crap at the minute.
But covert ops ships are pretty much perfect I'd say.
They have a lot of disadvantages (can't activate any module while cloaked, can't cloak when locked, physically weak), but a huge amount of positive points (undetectable, hello!!!!). But they don't get it too easy. It is possible to come out in a gatecamp and decloak-cloak in around a second if you know what you're doing. If you don't, then good ceptor pilots will have you easily, which is as it should be.
Dahin's quote is priceless and absolutely correct. Covert ops has long been a key factor in any fleet I've flown in. They can easily make the difference between victory and defeat in any battle. Our latest video has a scene which shows how useful a lone sniping ship is when you use a covert ops to warp a gankageddon right on top of it...
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.05.12 15:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gariuys
30 seconds is bull. And overpaying is your problem.
Yada yada, Sorry, I meant 20 seconds. I know this decreases with skills but I used the default time.
I paid 40 mill. Expensive for a toy, like all t2 items.
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