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San Jina
Just Another Industrial Corp
1
   |
Posted - 2011.10.06 00:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Can it be can it be?
"EVE Online-¦s Winter 2011 expansion will be themed around improvements to warfare and PVP. We will be talking more specifically about each of the features and items in the coming weeks but, for now, hereGÇÿs an overview of what functionality, systems and gameplay weGÇÿre going to improve and add to.
Hybrid weapons balancing"
The return of sniper gangs with rails?
What fixes would you guys think they would implement? My vote goes for increased tracking and or range. |
Headerman
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
150
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 00:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
My money is on: more DPS, less PG requirements for rails. For blasters: more fall-off
[img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
If they don't make hybrid ammo take up less cargo space than projectile ammo.... |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:If they don't make hybrid ammo take up less cargo space than projectile ammo....
That, and they will decrease cpu requirement. You will see what they do come winter, you will laugh, and then you will cry. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
"around improvements to warfare and PVP"
While they are at it, can they fix the drones, you know the Amarr drones sucking, and the Winmatar drones being... well, winmatar? |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:"around improvements to warfare and PVP"
While they are at it, can they fix the drones, you know the Amarr drones sucking, and the Winmatar drones being... well, winmatar?
Tbh, since they're already working on (new ecm) drones, I'd prefer drones doing what they're told and only what they're told when they're told first. |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 04:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Double post...  |
Baneken
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 08:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well I personally doubt they can squeeze in hybrid changes to winter patch as there have been tons of threads and there has been only one consensus which is that you have to change the ships as well not just the guns if you want to keep blasters/rails unique in what they are.
Because hybrids are only main weapon system that is (partially) shared by two races with different ship bonuses; no gallente ship has optimal bonus and no Caldari ship has a damage bonus for hybrids.
Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank. |
Lugalzagezi666
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 09:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
I personally bet, that they will manage to completely screw the balance with this "fix."
For example im almost sure that they wont exclude small blasters and "forget" about pirate ships, so you can start looking forward to fly completely op ranii, daredevils, ishkurs, vindis...
Also somehow i get the feeling, that caldari hybrid boats will be left completely useless, because noone is going to give them speed and agility to actually use optimal bonus they have.
At the end, you will still get kited in your hybrid boats by winmatar, or you will just reapproach gate and jump as usually. So for "fixes" - but hey, ccp already decided 2 years ago what is right playstyle for small/med gangs, so why complain. |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 10:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:I personally bet, that they will manage to completely screw the balance with this "fix."
So for "fixes" - but hey, ccp already decided 3 years ago what is right playstyle for small/med gangs, so why complain.
Fixed. There was no reason to fly a blaster ship(bigger than a frig) after the QR patch, as tons of people pointed out during the time it was on sissi.
It is easy to say "We fix hybrids.", but I have yet to see a single CSM or CCP dev that had a solid understanding about the issues and a vision what a hybrid ship(be it caldari or gallente) should actually do in PVP, leave alone a fleshed out baseline idea including the stats that would allow a hybrid hull to actually become useful in general game play(bare frig pvp) where they even if superior in stats get beaten by the meta game 23/7.
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Steven Fonulique
SF Incorporated
2
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Posted - 2011.10.06 14:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank.
What? |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 14:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Steven Fonulique wrote:Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank. What?
 he doesn't mean at the same time, he means shield Caldari railboats and armour Gallente blaster platforms both have a bonus to hybrids. |
Amitious Turkey
TarNec
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 15:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Baneken wrote:
Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank.
This is a really good point. Hybrids have to be able to adapt a lot more than any other weapon system. Just boosting a few stats won't do it. CCP has to completely redefine the way they look at hybrids.
I like to lick things.
Haunting the forums since 03. |
Lugalzagezi666
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 16:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank.
I learn something new every day.
Only now i dont know if projectiles are meant to be fitted with armor tank or shield tank.
|
e eek'd
EVIL PLANKTON
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 20:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
San Jina wrote:Can it be can it be?
"EVE Online-¦s Winter 2011 expansion will be themed around improvements to warfare and PVP. We will be talking more specifically about each of the features and items in the coming weeks but, for now, hereGÇÿs an overview of what functionality, systems and gameplay weGÇÿre going to improve and add to.
Hybrid weapons balancing"
The return of sniper gangs with rails?
What fixes would you guys think they would implement? My vote goes for increased tracking and or range.
i hope tracking for rails and 15% falloff for blasters and some cpu cuts! |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 20:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank.
Other than projectiles you mean.
And Missiles (Min ships use them a lot and some Amarr ships too). And I won't mention drones. |
Korsiri
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.10.07 00:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
>.<
bloody forum posts cannot contain html... gah
anywho - as someone who loves hybrids here's hoping  |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 00:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank. Other than projectiles you mean. And Missiles (Min ships use them a lot and some Amarr ships too). And I won't mention drones.
And we all know Nightmare must be armor tanked. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
4
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Posted - 2011.10.07 00:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:mxzf wrote:Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank. Other than projectiles you mean. And Missiles (Min ships use them a lot and some Amarr ships too). And I won't mention drones. And we all know Nightmare must be armor tanked.
I'm pretty sure he ment shield-tank Retribution.
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
Baneken
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
8
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Posted - 2011.10.07 10:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
I mean ship wise only hybrids are fitted to ships that are purely shield tanked (caldari) or pure armour tanked (gallente).
Other races have no hybrid bonuses so they aren't part of the equation just like no other race has laser or Ac bonuses but minmatar or amarr.
So that means hybrids would have to work for two races with completely different ships and not just for one race as was the case with AC's or lasers.
Ofc. you can fit the ships anyway you like but issue is that design wise ships are meant to be used with the bonuses that they have so obviously gallente ships should be viable blasters/rails + fat armour tank (and btw. scorch + shield domi, does more damage then with rails).
Or rather hybrids should be so good that you WANT TO use only them with gallente and caldari ships and not stuff AC's in myrms and so forth.
|
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 12:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Headerman wrote:My money is on: more DPS, less PG requirements for rails. For blasters: more fall-off
Almost agree with you, sure there are a lot of other mechanics around blasters than fall off to make them work properly without making them autos like.
ATM we have autos with short op and extreme fall off, but dps application in fall off of autos is really good.
Adding fall off to blasters will not help them that much since their dps in fall off is really ridiculous.
Dps in optimal IS blasters stuff, in fall off autos stuff. Blasters need significant optimal range changes and less fall off, hell take it away!!!
I rather hit at 100% dmg at 15km with no fall off than 100% at 5 and 15% at 10/15. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 12:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Steven Fonulique wrote:Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank. What?
Ask that to the last guy in his Cynabal who thought my cane was "easy prey", he never thought mine was armor tank (+25% EHP than shield version).
He made to get away deep in the hull while the cane had 75% armor left, very sure he pissed his pants that day.
Autos atm are the most effective weapon system either in shield OR armor tank, but /agree most corps/alliances doctrines are shield because remote/regen shield effectiveness (ships/mods) |
KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 12:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Also no other weapon system is meant to be fitted with both shield and armour tank.
Other than all other weapons systems.
Projectiles are the main weapon systems of Minmatar, and Minmatar ships can very often be shield or armor tanked.
Lasers are found on Amarrian armor boats, and Sansha shield boats.
Missiles are found on Amarrian T2 armor boats, and Caldari shield boats.
EVERY weapons system is designed to work with either kind of tank.
Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
SLAPD Director |
Steven Fonulique
SF Incorporated
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 12:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Baneken wrote:I mean ship wise only hybrids are fitted to ships that are purely shield tanked (caldari) or pure armour tanked (gallente).
Other races have no hybrid bonuses so they aren't part of the equation just like no other race has laser or Ac bonuses but minmatar or amarr.
So that means hybrids would have to work for two races with completely different ships and not just for one race as was the case with AC's or lasers.
Ofc. you can fit the ships anyway you like but issue is that design wise ships are meant to be used with the bonuses that they have so obviously gallente ships should be viable blasters/rails + fat armour tank (and btw. scorch + shield domi, does more damage then with rails).
Or rather hybrids should be so good that you WANT TO use only them with gallente and caldari ships and not stuff AC's in myrms and so forth.
The type of tank you fit on your ship still has no real bearing on the effectiveness of it's weapon systems. As some people have already pointed out you get ships like the Phantasm and Nightmare that are without a doubt shield tank ships that use lasers where the traditional Amarr laser boat would be armour tanked.
Looking at the angel cartel's line of ships you are given a very even choice of wether to fit a shield or armour tank on your ship, they are all focused on projectile weapons though.
The only thing you need to worry about is if your ship has enough powergrid and cpu to fit both the optimal weapon system and tank type.
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
68
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 12:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Headerman wrote:My money is on: more DPS, less PG requirements for rails. For blasters: more fall-off Almost agree with you, sure there are a lot of other mechanics around blasters than fall off to make them work properly without making them autos like. ATM we have autos with short op and extreme fall off, but dps application in fall off of autos is really good. Adding fall off to blasters will not help them that much since their dps in fall off is really ridiculous. Dps in optimal IS blasters stuff, in fall off autos stuff. Blasters need significant optimal range changes and less fall off, hell take it away!!! I rather hit at 100% dmg at 15km with no fall off than 100% at 5 and 15% at 10/15.
I would go even further and say that blasters should do **** all damage beyond the 10km barrier.
of course they also should do damage comparable to a freight train going at 200kph crashing against a pinto.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 18:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hopefully my Vindicator will be even more crazy to use after that then  .
I could gladly live with shorter range on Blasters for more DPS though. |
Smeghammer
Moon Faced Assassins of Joy Inc
In Umbra Mortis
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 20:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Hopefully my Vindicator will be even more crazy to use after that then . I could gladly live with shorter range on Blasters for more DPS though.
You mean like hitting somebody at 50k somehow with antimatter? Fella in my incursion fleet did that today with a navy mega, as I was doing the same thing with Tungsten ammo.. I think I was missing a little less than him though \
I'm not sure what to make of a hybird buff, but it will be nice to have rails useful for something other than getting my into a fleet as a sniper BS because they have enough DPS ships. |
Aaron Barton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 00:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Headerman wrote:My money is on: more DPS, less PG requirements for rails. For blasters: more fall-off Almost agree with you, sure there are a lot of other mechanics around blasters than fall off to make them work properly without making them autos like. ATM we have autos with short op and extreme fall off, but dps application in fall off of autos is really good. Adding fall off to blasters will not help them that much since their dps in fall off is really ridiculous. Dps in optimal IS blasters stuff, in fall off autos stuff. Blasters need significant optimal range changes and less fall off, hell take it away!!! I rather hit at 100% dmg at 15km with no fall off than 100% at 5 and 15% at 10/15.
I'll second this sentiment. I've been thinking of late that hybrids - both blasters and railguns - should have the most optimal and the least falloff of their counterparts, with projectiles having the least optimal and the most falloff and lasers having the middle ground.
The expectation with autocannons is that you will fight in falloff. With many Gallente ships having a bonus to falloff, a similar expectation is there. If blasters had more optimal but very little falloff, it would be a nice way to avoid the common fear of them becoming an autocannon clone. The engagement range of such a blaster would be very limited compared to that of an autocannon - which lends itself well to the general fighting philosophy of the Gallente and also maintains the versatility of the Minmatar fighting philosophy. Though, of course, it is pretty laughable to fall back on lore for weapon tweaking.
And regarding tracking, I think hybrids could do with a tracking increase. Not out of personal dissatisfaction with their tracking, but more as means to further differentiate them from lasers and projectiles. Similar to my optimal/falloff scheme, I think - on a purely abstract and conceptual level - hybrids should have the best tracking, projectiles the worst, and lasers the middle ground. This is all probably too simplistic a hope, but I just felt like throwing it out there. |
DemetRYS
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 05:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
I for one, welcome our new Dominix overlords.  |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 16:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
DemetRYS wrote:I for one, welcome our new Dominix overlords.
Drones.
...
Rattlesnake
....
Drones
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Typhoon
.....
Drones
......
Dominix
......
Drones
Myrmidon/Ishtar
--> Armageddon
...
.......
....................
Proteus (drone sub)
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