but like many mission runners I was hoping to see group oriented content in high sec space

stop. older players need to tell new pilots how it is. if level 4 missions were easier, they'd be called level 3's.

I don't feel bad for new players attempting to pilot battleships or run level 4's. I stayed in cormorants and ran level 1 and 2 missions for two years because my corp told me to. there is such a thing as "old school."

to me, level 4 missions were the realm of gods for almost 3 years. respect them.

I carry the logi capability to keep newb pilots alive. ...2 month old mega pilots fitted with rails and 1 missile launcher, and full room aggro. If you will allow them in your fleet, you should be able to handle the rep burden.

1. PvE games with roles (tank, support, healer and so on) are much more fun

3. It's absolutely impossible to play with newbie friends together. Before AI change it was fun to do level 4 missions together - they there looking, flying around, shooting frigate sized mobs, gathering loot and salvaging. Now it's all impossible due to random aggro switches.

Whats the reason to play together if I have to filter my friends by "tank type and level"?!

I still can do same level 4 missions easy solo, but like many mission runners I was hoping to see group oriented content in high sec space.

Go play them then. I'm not just saying that flippantly to dismiss your concerns. It's just basic common sense. If you do not enjoy something, don't pay to do it. If you would rather be doing something else, then go do it. Life is short.

3. It's absolutely impossible to play with newbie friends together. Before AI change it was fun to do level 4 missions together - they there looking, flying around, shooting frigate sized mobs, gathering loot and salvaging. Now it's all impossible due to random aggro switches.
This is the EVE equivalent of "power levelling". Older players running around getting all the aggro and dealing most of the damage, while newbies hang around picking off the stragglers and gaining massive benefits, which they could never achieve on their own.

I think most of those other games you talk about so fondly, frown upon power levelling as well? So why should it be allowed in EVE?

Whats the reason to play together if I have to filter my friends by "tank type and level"?!
You don't have to filter your friends. You have to filter the activities that you can do based on the group you are flying with. If you have a 1 week old character then you do level 2's. If you can all fly cruisers or BC (or LOGI) then you do level 3's. If you're all good enough for level 4's, then you do that. Or you give the newbie a Noctis or destroyer to salvage (maybe boring but it's a useful part of the group).

Or, you ADAPT. How about getting a couple of you grizzled vets into logi cruisers and keeping the newbro's cruisers alive in the L4's? In fact they don't even need good cap skills now, just decent resists and a buffer. I'm sure a group of cruisers could quite easily to a L4 with logi support.

I still can do same level 4 missions easy solo, but like many mission runners I was hoping to see group oriented content in high sec space.
Did I fall asleep and someone took incursions out of the game?

I agree with the OP, the Drone AI should stay out of missioning up to lv3 or 4 atleast. If you want players to fleet up, give them Lv 5's in highsec and apply the AI there. This change was overall very bad, since it hurts the farming of a lot of players - If ppl can't afford stuff they like or run out of money to afford plexes, customer base will likely drop.

Drone AI certainly is no problem at all in level 1 and 2 missions. Haven't checked out the others since retribution, currently playing a new toon with emphasis on drones.

Actually, my ofc subjective opinion is, that tiercide improved things so much for frigate to cruiser size ships, that level 1 and 2 got a decent nerf in difficulty.

Or, you ADAPT. How about getting a couple of you grizzled vets into logi cruisers and keeping the newbro's cruisers alive in the L4's? In fact they don't even need good cap skills now, just decent resists and a buffer. I'm sure a group of cruisers could quite easily to a L4 with logi support.

The new AI makes farming an activity, at least slightly more interesting then warp in, put out sentries, go make sammich, come back in a while and loot. PVE content needs to be somewhat challenging at the higher levels, instead of a mindless semi-afk grind for isk.

Pretty much this... don't hate on CCP when it was the activities of players that let to the change.

Then explain further why this hurts droneboats more than a missile-boat (which is almost complety unaffected). I can still sit there in my CNR beeing an F1 drone and never touch drones again, because... well, because I don't need drones at all. How does this change had any impact on mission running in a missile-boat? (oh and don't tell me I need to rely on drones to kill frigates - I rly don't)

Where is all the excitement from this change? I need to do the same as allways, Lock on, Press F1, repeat?
Where is all the excitement for high skilled pilots in their turret-boats? They instapop frigs like they have done before?

Sry guyz, but what you are saying is complete nonsense - this isn't about excitement or "grinding 4's is an activity now!!!" - it's just a slap in the face of less experienced players and boats that rely on drones - If you can't see why this is bad for the game then, then srsly, get some glasses.

Yeah, I haven't run missions in a while since I'm mining - but even there, nothing has changed. I still shot rats on sight and I'm not noticing a change in behaviour at all. Where is the benefit from this change?

*Hint* - there is none. ;)

You've clearly never flown a CNR because if all your light drones die and you're pointed, you're dead, you can shoot the scrambling frigate as much as you want with cruise, most elite frigs will still easily perma tank your missiles. Additionally, the premier L4 droneboat, the Domi runs with Sentries which are the least effected by this patch as you can pull them in/deploy instantly.

there is no turret boat that actually needs drones to kill npc. You might need drones to kill frigates so that you dont shoot em and clear out things faster, but thats different thing. As for those that likes to call other carebears , unless you buy plex for your pvp costs then stfu , you doing the same. It their option not to pvp because the like other content from you or me. Instead try to help to make em pvp and maybe you will see em in front of you.

"tanking" is a somewhat exploit tactic that was patched.

honestly, did that feel normal to you, or like something was broken and you were gaming an AI.

everyone gets a piece http://i.imgur.com/UU5YH.jpg

i know about that ewar Akuma. Still there is things you can do for passing the ecm - ts - sd . Also those insane fast frings that close up to you there are modules that you will hit em . I been all over high sec doing lvl 4 just to try the changes before i leave again for nullsec. I still do believe the worst ship to fly on any of those spaces are the drone boats. Sentry boats tend to win though because redeploying them is fast enough but all other just dont have a chance. As for turret boats you have options to tweak em according to your missions and what you expect inside there

yep this. I'm tooting my own horn, but yeah... I can keep a lot of crap alive. if gangmates seem sketchy in the tank department, I bring rattlesnakes with L shield drones. if it looks like a failfleet I'll bring proper logistics (basilisks).

it's also a great opportunity to show them ships and weapons they've never seen before. my favorites are harpys and flycatchers. battleship-eating frigates and 2.5km/s rocket destroyers make an impression.

surely, a decent alliance has -some- capable logistics pilots who believe in teamwork (especially a high sec one)

____________________________________

ah, sh*t. I said this already

there is no turret boat that actually needs drones to kill npc. You might need drones to kill frigates so that you dont shoot em and clear out things faster, but thats different thing. As for those that likes to call other carebears , unless you buy plex for your pvp costs then stfu , you doing the same. It their option not to pvp because the like other content from you or me. Instead try to help to make em pvp and maybe you will see em in front of you.

1. Should I watch my drones better? Drone users already had disadvantages compared to other damage sources:
- we had to stay at place since sentry drones do not move.
- we still were able to gain aggro on drones, just less often.
- we have no dedicated drone ships (by bonuses).
- our damage methods are less effective in PvP
- out damage source - drones - are most expensive to loose, when we have to warp out fast
That were already made drone users even or worser to other damage dealing methods. Additional disadvantages are too much of trouble.

I have no use for pathetic exuses you make. The only way to counter TD as a turret ship were drones. The only way to counter sensor damp were drones. ECM too but since ECM can miss you can actually live with it. So tell me, how am i supposed to kill that 30 km orbit elite cruiser without drones? Especially if there are 10+ of them (quite an often sight). Hint for mentally disabled: fitting counter modules doesnt work.

Fit long range guns, missiles, lasers.
Warp in, kill 1 NPC, bookmark.
When NPCs come close warp out before they start the ewar.
Warp in at a distance close to the range of your guns, kill NPCs, boomark, warp out when NPCs are close.
Repeat.

Works for me on non gated areas and i never used drones and never died in missions.

And yet another moron theory crafter showed up. well "Works for me on non gated areas" is enough of a proof for your idiocity, since many missions are gated. Also, just for you information: NPCs have instant lock. NPC ewar range as long as any of your guns range. Many areas have gates, often multiple ones. Your "solution" will not work even in missions, let alone non mission PVE. And finally, you are an imbecile.
But as i am a kind man, ill give you a good adice: fly caldari missile boats. Then you wont have to warp out 200 times per mission and might even actually complete it for the first time in your life.

1. PvE games with roles (tank, support, healer and so on) are much more fun.

Wow, carebear tears abound. Generally, in almost every MMO, you can't do the harder content without some progression first. The new AI makes farming an activity, at least slightly more interesting then warp in, put out sentries, go make sammich, come back in a while and loot. PVE content needs to be somewhat challenging at the higher levels, instead of a mindless semi-afk grind for isk. Personally, I think the newer AI actually encourages teamplay, the only difference is that if you want to bring along new players (that really aren't equipped to deal with the content) along, you have to be more on top of your game and provide them with some help. As opposed to "Hey, warp in now I've got all the aggro" and then then they can run around and shoot/loot with no repercussions. Adapt or ragequit.

Hearing you guys bleat and wail about how much harder missions have become almost makes me want to fly back down to empire and try some of them out again. They sure weren't even remotely difficult before!

They are only harder if you try and run them the same way you always have, but to run them how you have to now is terribly boring. If they want to make them more annoying, fine, but expand the reward. You don't get a promotion at work with more responsibilities and still make the same money. Missions now take longer and are infinitely more annoying but pay the same.

The rats in eve are ****. They do things that no player could do. They instantly lock and fire on you. BS can hit a small drone from 2km. Then with all the ewar and incredible dps/tank they drop ******* meta 0 bullshit. Total cop out fail ai. CCP has been nerfing pve for years. You used to be able to salvage 20-50m isk in a L4 mission. Now ur lucky to get 5m.

Eve just isn't fun anymore for ppl that don't like to pay to play. I recommend everyone to cancel their accounts and tell ccp why. Don't keep playing a game that is garbage. Don't ***** about **** if ur still paying ccp.

As I said before, they're not harder, and they don't take significantly longer that I can tell. They DO require you to do them differently, and they do also encourage group play instead of solo.

Also, as far as I can tell, there's much faster ways to make isk in pve content.


Missions seem to me to be a way to raise standings with a corp, gain some LP, and socialize with some friends..


Fastest non incursion isk I've made was in north provi NRDS space running plexes..

I lost about 5b running L5 missions after the new expansion. Totally broke me. I even moved down to L4's and lost a freaking dual repped navy domi. My main lost that with 4 years of mission skills. Insane. Needless to say I canceled both my accounts. If ccp wants to punish the pve'ers for not buying into their pvp business model of hemoraging isk and plex to fund new ships, well they can do it without me and my accounts.

**** ccp. See if you can keep the servers running with only pvpers paying you.

Level 4s aren't really new player content, in fact they are the highest level mission most people will ever take on.

stop. older players need to tell new pilots how it is. if level 4 missions were easier, they'd be called level 3's.

I don't feel bad for new players attempting to pilot battleships or run level 4's. I stayed in cormorants and ran level 1 and 2 missions for two years because my corp told me to. there is such a thing as "old school."

to me, level 4 missions were the realm of gods for almost 3 years. respect them.

I carry the logi capability to keep newb pilots alive. ...2 month old mega pilots fitted with rails and 1 missile launcher, and full room aggro. If you will allow them in your fleet, you should be able to handle the rep burden.

What is this drivel about Newbs in lvl4 missions? They are not supposed to run them, and if they do it's just reasonable to ask for proper logistics to keep them alive.
Real Newbs should start at lvl1, earn their first cruiser alone, and so on. If you blow the ISK up their behinds you take a good part of the excitement and the essential first experiences away.

I lost about 5b running L5 missions after the new expansion. Totally broke me. I even moved down to L4's and lost a freaking dual repped navy domi. My main lost that with 4 years of mission skills. Insane. Needless to say I canceled both my accounts. If ccp wants to punish the pve'ers for not buying into their pvp business model of hemoraging isk and plex to fund new ships, well they can do it without me and my accounts.

**** ccp. See if you can keep the servers running with only pvpers paying you.