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Zhou Yu
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Posted - 2005.05.27 11:10:00 -
[1]
Here are my findings using my skills.
Mining Plagioclaise
Tools
Ship: Covector
Miners: 3 x Modulated Strip Miners II, (Plagioclaise II crystals)
Skills: Mining 5, Astrogeology 5, Refining 5, Refining Eff. 5. Plagioclaise Processing 4
Refining:
Station Equipment: 50%
Character Standings: 1.69
Cycle timer for miners, 180 seconds (3 minutes)
Result:
9702 total plag mined in 3 minute cycle
Refining Yields:
256 units Tritanium
512 units Pyerite
256 units Mexallon
Sell prices:
[256] [email protected] ISK= 10,719.00 ISK
[512] [email protected] ISK= 71,465.00 ISK
[256] [email protected] ISK= 114,336.00 ISK
_________________________________________________________
Total Profit196,520.00 ISK / 3
= 65,506 isk per minute mining Plagioclaise
Mining Ice (White Glaze)
Tools
Ship: Covector
Miners: 3 x Ice Harvesters
Skills: Mining Barge 5, Mining 5, Astrogeology 5, Refining 5, Refining Eff. 5. Ice Harvesting 5, Ice Processing 3
Refining:
Station Equipment: 50%
Character Standings: 1.64
Cycle timer for miners, 450 seconds (7.5 minutes)
Result:
3 blocks of White Glaze mined in 7.5 minute cycle
Refining Yields:
144 Heavy Water
72 Liquid Ozone
2 Strontium Clathrates
866 Nitrogen Isotopes
Sell prices:
[144] Heavy Water@400 ISK= 28,800
[72 ] Liquid Ozone@400 ISK= 28,800
[2 ] Strontium Clathrates@1000 ISK= 2,000 ISK
[866] Nitrogen Isotopes@700 ISK= 606,200 ISK
_____________________________________________________________
Total Profit665,800 ISK / 7.5
= 88,773 isk per minute mining White Glaze (Selling products)
or
[3] White Glaze Ice block@180,000 ISK each = 540,000 ISK
Total Profit540,000 ISK / 7.5
= 72,000 isk per minute mining White Glaze (Selling blocks)
Summary:
65,506 isk per minute mining Plagioclaise
72,000 isk per minute mining White Glaze (Selling blocks @180k / unit)
88,773 isk per minute mining White Glaze (selling products)
Conclusion:
I believe if you have access to anything better than plagioclaise such as Omber (isogen is very hot right now) or Jaspet then you will make much more profit mining them than ice. As for selling ice as a full time income, its not worth it, especially if you sell it as blocks, as most people buy blocks for around 150k, you'd be lucky to get 200k a block, even if you did its literally plagioclaise level money. Also think about the market for both products, demand for pyerite, trit and mex is high and has been constantly so for the last year. Ice sales are not that consistent.
At the end its down to the individual, considering the time put into learning all the ice skills and the costs of the Covector and miners, I would say you'd be wasting your time to sell your ice for any less than 250k a block or 800-900 isk per isotope else you would be better off mining Omber.
Don't let anyone dictate to you how much you should sell your products, not everyone takes time, base costs etc into consideration, some just look at the market avereage which is stupid and naive.
Note: Remember the above is calculated using 400 isk as a base for heavy water/liquid ozone and 700 isk per isotope. If you are selling your products less than that your isk per minute will be much lower, even below plagioclaise and near that of scordite.
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Madcat UK
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Posted - 2005.05.27 11:25:00 -
[2]
good post
i mine both and have never real worked it out.
so on with the mining 
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Namarus
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Namarus on 27/05/2005 14:48:09
Could you sell me trit and pyerite at the prices you state?
I would buy unlimited amounts.
Your prices used for minerals aren't really market averages.
With an apoc and mod dcm II mining Veldspar with a t2 crystal I make = 65,690 isk per minute.
Nothing to see here .... move along. |
Archy LabRat
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:53:00 -
[4]
The pyrite is slightly under the buy orders but the Trit is unbelivably low!!
Because people don't want to have to transport the stuff for days there are buy orders around 3 ISK per unit at stations in Empire.
In fact I'll give your mine if you want and you can drop off as much as you want a a very reasonable 2.5 ISK per unit.
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SaorAlba
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Posted - 2005.05.27 15:27:00 -
[5]
Typical POS owner trying to convince the noobs to mine ice for him. You are disposed
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Zhou Yu
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Posted - 2005.05.27 16:47:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Zhou Yu on 27/05/2005 16:48:00
 Originally by: SaorAlba
Typical POS owner trying to convince the noobs to mine ice for him. You are disposed
I don't actually know if you even bothered reading or are just looking to troll, where have i asked any 'noobs' to mine ice for me?
If you have nothing useful or sensible to contribute then don't.
Regarding the mineral prices thats fine you can rasise that to whatever value you find them for, all it means is that the isk per min will be much higher than that of ice mining.
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Tas Devil
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Posted - 2005.05.27 17:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SaorAlba
Typical POS owner trying to convince the noobs to mine ice for him. You are disposed
Dumb de Dumb...did you even look at the skills he used to calculate the above...that¦s one serious noob with a serious mining skill package we have here ... this is a good post...it makes assumptions and averages of market values...but its a lot more informative then most of the Ýcemining isn¦t profitable its better to mine veldspar` whinning that we get a load of here ... well done... more post like this are needed and less from our usually critical dumbs de Dumb crowd
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Dobra
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Posted - 2005.05.27 21:38:00 -
[8]
I've changed prices to more reflect the market and voila a lot changes.
Originally by: Zhou Yu
Here are my findings using my skills.
Mining Plagioclaise
Sell prices:
[256] [email protected] ISK= 18,560.00 ISK
[512] [email protected] ISK= 89,088.00 ISK
[256] [email protected] ISK= 118,784.00 ISK
_________________________________________________________
Total Profit226,432.00 ISK / 3
= 75,477 isk per minute mining Plagioclaise
Mining Ice (White Glaze)
Cycle timer for miners, 520 seconds (8 minutes)
Result:
3 blocks of White Glaze mined in 8 minute cycle
Sell prices:
[144] Heavy Water@200 ISK= 28,800
[72 ] Liquid Ozone@400 ISK= 28,800
[2 ] Strontium Clathrates@1000 ISK= 2,000 ISK
[866] Nitrogen Isotopes@500 ISK= 433,000 ISK
_____________________________________________________________
Total Profit491,000 ISK / 8
= 61,375 isk per minute mining White Glaze (Selling products)
or
[3] White Glaze Ice block@150,000 ISK each = 450,000 ISK
Total Profit450,000 ISK / 8
= 56,250 isk per minute mining White Glaze (Selling blocks)
Summary:
75,477 isk per minute mining Plagioclaise
56,250 isk per minute mining White Glaze (Selling blocks @180k / unit)
61,375 isk per minute mining White Glaze (selling products)
Also to consider is that plagio is THE worst ore to mine for profit. If you need the mex it's good otherwise it sucks. Scordite is the nr1 ore for people who want to mine safe.
Ice mining is good for those that want to read a book or do something else for 16 minutes between the trip back to station to unload and back.
16 minutes since you have 6k m3 in cargo and therefor can do 2 cycles before you have to unload.
So if you want profit mine ore, if you want to do something else
for 16 minutes, then mine ice.
/Dobra
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.05.28 03:45:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/05/2005 03:46:38
1.5 for trit?
5 for pyrite?
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
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BlueSmok
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Posted - 2005.05.28 06:08:00 -
[10]
How about the payouts for mining the higher end ice located in low sec, Glare crust, Gelidus and Dark Glitter?
My own calculations for Glare crust is around 10M per hour...
*Laws to suppress tend to strengthen what they would prohibit. This is the fine point on which all the legal professions of history have based their job security.
Bene Gesserit Coda |
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Drofier Ilmatti
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Posted - 2005.05.29 05:56:00 -
[11]
There's little demand for Strontium Calathrates as it is. This makes the estimated value of glare crust quite in-accurate.
Some day perhaps. |
Karl Borhman
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Posted - 2005.05.31 14:45:00 -
[12]
Agreed. By far, mining ice is at best a suckers game. If you seriously want to do it, you can sell the isotope versions of the ice much easier than the higher end stuff.
But be forewarned. You need a willing buyer, or expect a LONG wait to get a payout with your isotopes in the 500 (800? wow!!!!!) isk a unit range. Anything less isn't worth your time.
That being said, we do have at least one masochist miner in our corp that likes mining blue ice (oxygen isotopes). If you need some feel free to contact us, he may be willing to mine it frequently.
__________________________________
Mining ... the other white meat.
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Cylynex
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Posted - 2005.06.01 01:32:00 -
[13]
The sell prices you are using are all wrong. HW does not sell for anywhere close to 400, and stronts, as near as I can tell, do not sell at all. 700 for Iso? It might be actually worth it to mine them if they sold for anywhere near that much. Too many retriever-newbs mining away in Jita sell them for 450 or so.
Selling HW / LO in bulk evemail me. I sell out daily so get to me early if you expect same day delivery ;)
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Antuirc Halcyon
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Posted - 2005.06.01 06:31:00 -
[14]
I went through similar calculations while my corp was trying to determine our "cost" of running a POS. A big disadvantage to your calculations is comparing minute to minute. You are however one of the rare people that understands (or stumbled upon) opportunity costs). Here is what I worked out using my skills.
Mining 5
Astrogeology 4
Refining 5
Refining Eff 4
Scord 1
Mining Barge 3
Ice Harvesting 4
Station faction of 7.6 (0 station take)
Regular Scordite = 416 pyerite and 833 trit per 333
Essence region (not up to date prices)
pyerite = 6.7
trit = 2.8
Value of 24 minutes mining refined = 658,191.60
In the same amount of time I can mine 6 Blue Ice, which yield a total of 2,932 ice products.
658,191.60/2,933 = 224.41 per ice product. This would be the breakeven sales price if I mined Blue Ice for income instead of scordite.
Too late for me to rerun the numbers with your skills. But should give others a better idea of how to calculate ice value. Then maybe we will see ice product prices drop a bit.
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Karl Borhman
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Posted - 2005.06.06 14:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Drofier Ilmatti
There's little demand for Strontium Calathrates as it is. This m |
Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2005.06.08 04:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 08/06/2005 04:33:53
Even tho I don't have 4 R&D agent's on the field of laser's . Id like to see tech 2 Ice miner's introduce'd to the game.
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Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2005.06.08 06:57:00 -
[17]
Be prepared that the deamnd for ice product will constantly grow... and when agents stop giving out T2 component rewards, I product demand will go BOOM, cus everyone and their dog will build POSs and Outposts...
HINT: older rich ppl will pay you more (sometime much much more) if they do not have to transport the minerals, and it is in large quantity. If you want make good money transport ice product near 0.0 chokepoints, contact the alliances ect.
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Karl Borhman
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Posted - 2005.06.10 20:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Balazs Simon
If you want make good money transport ice product near 0.0 chokepoints, contact the alliances ect.
Even if demand goes up, and I'm skeptical that it will, the majority of players that would mine are only going to mine ice as a last resort.
This is going to hold true until ice mining isn't tied to ore mining. And it won't ever be, as the above examples show.
__________________________________
Mining ... the other white meat.
__________________________________ |
Beldaws
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Posted - 2005.06.11 00:59:00 -
[19]
What somewhat increases the value of the ice is the fact that you can sit in one spot and mine all day with no loss of time.
You have to also factor in the time lost when the roid pops and you only get a partial pull and the time to target another rock or even change crystals.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.06.11 03:27:00 -
[20]
Actually, the nitrogen isotope ice is becoming quite profitable now, as the price of nitro isotopes is through the roof. You can probably get 800-900 ISK a unit in yulai!
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
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Frost Killer
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Posted - 2005.06.11 05:01:00 -
[21]
I buy ice between 178-195k pu. Still cheaper then market, and if theres any excess i can bleed it off to others with little cost to me if any at all. Expecially with the way prices are going these days.
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Ummm ya.... |
Dur Spleenman
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Posted - 2005.06.13 07:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Beldaws
What somewhat increases the value of the ice is the fact that you can sit in one spot and mine all day with no loss of time.
You have to also factor in the time lost when the roid pops and you only get a partial pull and the time to target another rock or even change crystals.
It's not time you lose - it's isk.
Lost time with roid popping can be avoided by using a simple survey scanner. Any good barge miner will use one.
Unless you can sell the isotopes for big bucks (250K+ a unit) ice cubes are practically worthless.
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