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Jack Apples	Posted - 2005.05.29 08:51:00 - [1] Suppose you get a message from CCP stating that you've been randomly selected to be entered into a 1v1 PvP tournament with a cap charger II BPO going to the winner. The only catch is that the cost of your ship and entire setup cannot exceed 10 million isk. You know nothing about what your opponents will be flying other than the fact that they too are bound by the same 10 million isk spending limit. Use the base price listed in the EVE-I Object Explorer (http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley/page/page_objectexplorer.php) for all T1 ships and mods, and NAGA prices (http://www.nagamazon.com/) for all named and T2 items. No faction mods are allowed, simply because it's hard to find a set standard for how much they cost. Also, assume you have all relevant skills, those dealing with fitting and otherwise, at level 5 and have no hardwire implants. You must specify what kind of ammo you would carry, but for the sake of simplication the cost of ammo does not count towards the spending limit. Now, what would your ship and setup be? Note: I have no idea if people will be interested in this, but if there are a lot of responses maybe we could vote on the best setups and maybe determine a winner somehow. --- yub yub
Kashre	Posted - 2005.05.29 08:57:00 - [2] Id bring something with jammers and nos. maybe a BB. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Soros	Posted - 2005.05.29 09:01:00 - [3] Edited by: Soros on 29/05/2005 09:01:37 Thorax. (not enough isk for t2) High slots: 4x 150mm railguns (3x II 2x standard) Medium nosferatu Medium slots: Mwd, warp scrambler, webber, Lows slots: medium armour repairer II, 2x hardners, 2x cap power relays Drone bay: 50/50 heavy and medium drones Reasons: 150mm, will hit any interseptor frigate or AF regardless of their speed, I can easily tank them whilst I pop away at them. If a cruiser comes, with cruiser guns, my personal pvp tactics will help me beat / disable them, I would get my drones on them before they could jam me :D soros -= Soros =- = Firmux Ixion =
Roba	Posted - 2005.05.29 09:22:00 - [4] Edited by: Roba on 29/05/2005 09:24:15 Ganka maller??? Ok price issue, drop'd sinks for tankage. And assume I ship-jacked the maller... Maller (assume crusier lvl 5) 5x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II 1x Medium Nos 1x 10mn AB 2x Capac Recharger 3x Heatsink II 1x Medium Armor Rep 2x Armor Hardner (Ken/Exp) Can argue and haggle on prices :)
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.29 09:27:00 - [5] thorax, mwd on target, throw drones out... byby.
Solomon Majere	Posted - 2005.05.29 09:57:00 - [6] Arbitrator Heavy launcher, 2x medium nos, medium neut 2x racial jammer, ab 1600mm plate, medium repper, adaptive nano, 2x pdu Your basic nos setup. Tank is good, jammers assure you can hold it. Heavy launcher and 15 medium drones (max skills) do the killing. Change heavy launcher for rocketlaucher with defenders when going against missile setups. Drones would be kin/explo (evenly distributed) for armour tanked ships, and EM/explo of shield tankers. Probably won't need the armour plate, as BS and hacs are out of the question in a setup under 10 mil... One of the cheapest cruisers around (at more or less 4 mil isk)that can really dish out the damage. Really underrated.
MadGaz	Posted - 2005.05.29 10:02:00 - [7] I'd go with a thorax with a bunch of nossies. ------------------------------------------
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.29 11:03:00 - [8] thorax + plate => no nosfs(med. size)(at least if you want to have mwd on and some guns). And plated thorax would kill unplated one with drones and small guns.
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.05.29 11:10:00 - [9] I'd get a ship with scanprobes and look for battleships on safespots. 0 isk for the ship, then just add the mods
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.05.29 13:35:00 - [10] veletor with tech2 gear ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.29 13:59:00 - [11] Stabber The rest is classified. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Weirda	Posted - 2005.05.29 16:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Stabber The rest is classified. Ditto. -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Trevize dk	Posted - 2005.05.29 17:08:00 - [13] How about a Celestis? The cruiser gets bonus to sensor dampening. Fit 4 sensor dampners, 3x 250mm, 2x heavy launchers and some stuff in low slots - and 8 drones. Your opponent wil be not able to lock you before he/she is 2.5km from you, and even then it would take several minutes before lock is complete. Plenty of time to kill him in.
Peter Pain	Posted - 2005.05.29 19:28:00 - [14] ÷hm... 10 mil... just go for .. thorax maller rupture but.. not for moa .. then fit sth that surprises + makes good dmg so... so u got thorax rupture .. and then think about jamming opponents nosing+ dampening and u stuff etc.. and boom .. thorax comes out top...then it all depends on ur favoritejust make sure that u can run ur tank without too much problems... so u can evade being killed by fast ships that orbit at range
Sentani	Posted - 2005.05.29 20:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Trevize dk How about a Celestis? The cruiser gets bonus to sensor dampening. Fit 4 sensor dampners, 3x 250mm, 2x heavy launchers and some stuff in low slots - and 8 drones. Your opponent wil be not able to lock you before he/she is 2.5km from you, and even then it would take several minutes before lock is complete. Plenty of time to kill him in. idd go with that setup... its just... perfect... firepower and EW... what can go wrong ?
Bagdh Dearg	Posted - 2005.05.29 20:26:00 - [16] 10mill to buy or 10mill costs(Ie mineral costs.A HAC sells for 70mill but might costs alot less) _______________________________________________ An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic -He who is not strong must be crafty
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.29 20:36:00 - [17] A passive shield tanked Thorax as the T2 shield modules are so cheap you could fully equip it and with the new changeÆs on the test server I donÆt think any other 10million ship would have the firepower to knock down its shields. Take 6 heavy drones and the rest filled with light drones. Knock out your opponents drones and you can for sure sit there all day tanking his damage no matter what he does. ThatÆs how I am winning my current PvP tournament the other ships just cannot beat my regen Cruiser V Cruiser only. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Zungen	Posted - 2005.05.29 20:36:00 - [18] eve market price for ships on site :P no backdoors :P
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.29 21:38:00 - [19] Edited by: LUKEC on 29/05/2005 21:39:25 i wonder how can you passive tank with 3 med slots? Some extenders => no place for hardeners and vice versa. I don't think you can tank 5x med pulse II(small guns) passively with 3 med slots. (not to menition someone might some up with maller with medium size guns) Is it valid to bring retribution? they costed less than 10mil sometime
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:28:00 - [20] Edited by: Pottsey on 29/05/2005 22:37:13 ö i wonder how can you passive tank with 3 med slots? Some extenders => no place for hardeners and vice versa.ö Passive tanks are based around low slots not mid slots leaving room for shield hardeners. All the best shield recharge modules are low slots and the Thorax has a fair amount of low slots and makes a surprising good shield tank. I have that annoying stuck at 80% loading star base screen bug so I cannot double check but if I recall correctly I get 60 hp/s regen with shield hardeners and 5k shields on a Thorax cruiser which I believe is pretty good compared to active tanks on a cruiser. More with the Escort Tactic skill. So far thatÆs been holding out pretty well against other cruisers. You can scarp the hardness for more hp regen but I think hardeners are the better bet unless your sure your opponent is going use explosive then the extra regen might work out better. ôI don't think you can tank 5x med pulse II(small guns) passively with 3 med slots. (not to menition someone might some up with maller with medium size guns)ö I tend to take Nos in half my slots and Cap Neutralizes in the other half by the time the med pulse II have got into optimal range and long before they knock my shields down to 50% the laser based ship will have 0 cap left to fire. Unless he useÆs jammers but I believe even with jammers at 4km you can still lock. Anything with small turrets is no treat the biggest treat are long range mid turrets as they keep outside my Nos and Cap Neutralize range. WhatÆs the DPS for x5 med pulse II(small guns) and what damage type? WouldnÆt T2 weapons put you over the 10 mill limit? EDIT: I guess not, 5 small T2 weapons is only 2.37 million so it could be done. I guess the ship would have to be an Omen then. As a Maller would put you over the 10 million mark with those weapons and no equipment. ô(not to menition someone might some up with maller with medium size guns)ö The base price for a Maller is 8.3 million which doesnÆt leave much ISK left for equipment. I better double check my passive tank is in the price limit. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:38:00 - [21] med pulseII has dmg mod 3.6 and rof 3.5, with skills you get 5.5 dmg mod & 2.8 rof. 24dps per gun i guess(with MultiF ammo). Price: 500k / gun. But this price limit is kindda funny, as i usually fit cruisers with throwaway modules and really don't have a clue about prices. It goes like this: 1600mm plate = 0isk (forgot to reprocess it :)) hardeners: 0 isk, got them from killing some rats or ppl named 10mn mwd... got it from ... I guess it is hard to define prices of these items, but i'd say it is pretty hard to fit tier 3 cruiser under 10mil, as 8 heavy drones + cruiser = close to the limit.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:41:00 - [22] ôbut for the sake of simplication the cost of ammo does not count towards the spending limit.ö Do drones count as being free? _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.29 23:05:00 - [23] Pottsey, have you ever fought a Stabber that is equipped to kill Cruisers at range say 20 km? Not a flame, just a question. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Pottsey, have you ever fought a Stabber that is equipped to kill Cruisers at range say 20 km? Not a flame, just a question. Um, pretty much any small long range gun will hit you there. (150mm rails or medium beams or 280mm)... and stabber is paper thin. And by tanking you get rid of MWD or AB...
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:25:00 - [25] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Pottsey, have you ever fought a Stabber that is equipped to kill Cruisers at range say 20 km? Not a flame, just a question. Um, pretty much any small long range gun will hit you there. (150mm rails or medium beams or 280mm)... and stabber is paper thin. And by tanking you get rid of MWD or AB... Im not worried. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Jack Apples	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:31:00 - [26] Good and interesting responses so far. However, I guess I didn't make it clear that you can't use things you already have sitting around or can get for free and count them as costing 0 isk, since that kind of defeats the purpose. --- yub yub
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:37:00 - [27] pretty obviously a blackbird with say 1 of each racials, and anything in highs. Though celestis w/ damps sounds nice. Thorax will bbq anything, but not if its jammed. Though I'd be tempted to go with a gank claw.
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2005.05.30 01:06:00 - [28] hmm I'd go Bellicose, just to be different . That'd leave me about 6.5M isk to spend on mods. Setup wise could go several ways, maybe a 3 650mm med-long range belli, ... If this tourney would be after missile changes maybe a caracal would be badass too, with assault launchers, can shoot any frig that comes close comfortably and cruisers are still in trouble with the onslaught of light missiles heading their way . ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
kessah	Posted - 2005.05.30 01:16:00 - [29] maller, 2x 1600 plates, 3 nanofibers, 1 med repper, 125mm rails, usual med slot layout, 10mn mwd\ab i forget this set-up been awhile since ive used. its summin along those lines. ive managed 1600 plates with med pulse med nos and slighty tanked, but this ran in2 cap issues if your not in nos range so fit a mwd\ab. -------------------------------------------------------- Im Your Huckleberry ;-)
jamesw	Posted - 2005.05.30 01:56:00 - [30] thorax will bbq that celestis if he pops his drones quickly. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Mishima	Posted - 2005.05.30 03:32:00 - [31] thorax/maller prolly, maybe stabber with speed and hit'n'run A Vampire Thorax would probably be good if everyone else can only buy ship for 10mil, you'd win the tanking mallers, outlast and outdure the other thoraxes 5nos mwd scrambler web medium armor rep II and 3-4hardeners (last slot optional) then let drones (ogres) do the damage I love x-mas :D
Mishima	Posted - 2005.05.30 03:35:00 - [32] Originally by: DrunkenOne Thorax will bbq anything, but not if its jammed. Even jammed it will bbq anything, jammed with smartbombs even, doesnt matter you need 10volleys to kill a heavy drone with medium smartbombs, even t2 even steven :D I love x-mas :D
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.30 07:34:00 - [33] ômed pulseII has dmg mod 3.6 and rof 3.5, with skills you get 5.5 dmg mod & 2.8 rof. 24dps per gun i guess(with MultiF ammo).ö I assume 24DPS is only if you never miss? But even if you donÆt miss its not enough to break the passive tank. So thatÆs 120dps total EM and thermal damage. My tank has EM 50% resistance not sure if I have the free cash left for T2 and Thermal is 20%. Pretty sure with those resistanceÆs I could tank 120dps of damage. If the test server ever gets fixed we can test on there if you want. ôPottsey, have you ever fought a Stabber that is equipped to kill Cruisers at range say 20 km?ö Not a flame, just a question.ö No so far all my opponents have chosen Caldari and Gallente ships. WhatÆs the Stabbers DPS and damage type on average? A quick look at a stabber and drones look like a problem for it. ômaller, 2x 1600 plates, 3 nanofibers, 1 med repper, 125mm rails, usual med slot layout,ö Damage looks to low to break some the stronger tanks you might end up going against. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.30 07:49:00 - [34] assume 24DPS is only if you never miss? But even if you donÆt miss its not enough to break the passive tank. So thatÆs 120dps total EM and thermal damage. My tank has EM 50% resistance not sure if I have the free cash left for T2 and Thermal is 20%. Pretty sure with those resistanceÆs I could tank 120dps of damage. If the test server ever gets fixed we can test on there if you want. 8 heavy drones: another 100+dps. It would be close.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.30 07:54:00 - [35] Edited by: Pottsey on 30/05/2005 10:27:23 ô8 heavy drones: another 100+dps. It would be close.ö ThatÆs true it would turn out to be who had the best drone skills. The first thing I tend to do is send my drones against the enemy drones. If you have lvl 5 drone skills itÆs not hard seeing your drones beating mine and I agree drone on top of T2 weapons would knock down my shields though it might take a while they would do it. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.05.30 08:05:00 - [36] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 30/05/2005 07:54:58 ômaller, 2x 1600 plates, 3 nanofibers, 1 med repper, 125mm rails, usual med slot layout,ö ThatÆs true it would turn out to be who had the best drone skills. The first thing I tend to do is send my drones against the enemy drones. If you have lvl 5 drone skills itÆs not hard seeing your drones beating mine and I agree drone on top of T2 weapons would knock down my shields though it might take a while they would do it. Mallers don't have drones [Heterocephalus glaber]
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.30 08:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Pottsey ôPottsey, have you ever fought a Stabber that is equipped to kill Cruisers at range say 20 km?ö Not a flame, just a question.ö No so far all my opponents have chosen Caldari and Gallente ships. WhatÆs the Stabbers DPS and damage type on average? A quick look at a stabber and drones look like a problem for it. Assault Launchers with FOF Lights, the Stabber's 336 m/s base speed (Nav 5 and Cruiser 5) would go a long way to keeping it out of Blaster range, and put on a coule 650mm with EMP M and you have a bit of a pain machine. Granted it might not break the passive tank, but it may prove equally unbeatable. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Cheim	Posted - 2005.05.30 08:33:00 - [38] Caracal 5x Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay (Scourges and Thunderbolts) 1x Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Afterburner, 1x Sensor Booster I, 2x Sensor Booster II 2x Ballistic Control Unit I 4x Acolyte I I can't find BCUs on NAGA's site ...
sweetnsour	Posted - 2005.05.30 09:44:00 - [39] difficult question to answer i think it depends on what your opponent has the maller rupture caracal and thorax all have interesting setups that cud easily defeat one another its the old paper rock scissors (bad spelling) nothing is supreme. if i had to choose anything i would probably go with the caracal setup stated above or the throax
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.05.30 10:27:00 - [40] Blackbird with 3 heavy launcher, medium nos. AB, 3 tracking disruptors, web, cap recharger small armor repairer, 400mm plate You might die horribly, but it's fun. :P P.s. On The 80% loading bug to getting on the test server, hit escape twice once it's locked up, uncheck "load station" in generic options, clsoe window, and you should get in. You can set it back to load station and it's fine from then on. Worked for me. (Btw, new test branch is horribly messed up, all the text changes i suppose). \| Don't be a bad loser \|

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