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Cirdan Vardamir	Posted - 2005.05.31 14:15:00 - [31] Ok, but there's still no justification not to when you get no bonuses to large energy turrets beyond lowering the cap at amarr bs lvl 5 to the point where it's almost the same as 425mm railguns, but nowhere near as low as 1400mm's
Farjung	Posted - 2005.05.31 14:28:00 - [32] Originally by: Cirdan Vardamir Ok, but there's still no justification not to when you get no bonuses to large energy turrets beyond lowering the cap at amarr bs lvl 5 to the point where it's almost the same as 425mm railguns, but nowhere near as low as 1400mm's Lasers have their damage bonuses "built-in", as most Amarr ships don't have a damage bonus. 425mm rails without any damage bonus do not compare well to lasers with no damage bonus, nor do 1400mm without two damage bonuses. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Edoo	Posted - 2005.05.31 14:55:00 - [33] The dominix IS the 2nd best tanker because it can hold it's cap more easily running 2 large reps and 3 hardeners.
laserc	Posted - 2005.05.31 15:08:00 - [34] Edited by: laserc on 31/05/2005 16:51:16 Originally by: Lorth Ok let me have a go here. Keep in mind, I have only really flown ammar BS's on the test server, as I tend to not fly the same ships everyone else is flying. Amar: - Arguably, needs less skills to be effective compared to gallente ships - Uses no ammo, which can be a big deal some times. As in station taking, and rat hunting. - Tanks better then either gallente ships. In large groups this isn't significant, but in 1vs1 and simular, I feel that tanking is still viable. Also, as a gallente pilot I often have trouble killing amar ships before running ot of cap my self. - Pulses, even with the nerf are arguable much more usefull then blasters. This is due to thier supperier range, and not needing a MWD to be effective. - Instant switch ammo. More of a luxury then anything. Can't tell you the number of times I have cursed out loud because it take a long time to change ammo on hybrids. - Easy to set up. As in theres tons of good set up on the forums. As well as having lots of spare CPU/Grid in comparision to most gallente ships. Gallette: - Able to do more damage (425's) then amar ships, but only after very high skills. - However, most gallente ships have cap issues, due to the fact they have far less cap then amar, and use about the same or more. - Blasters, when used right are a deadly gun. However, they need a far bit of balls, and player skills to be effective. - Rails, have more range then any amar ship. - Domi, its just fun to fly if you have a good set up. Everyone and thier brouther assumes that the domi sucks, untill the fight mine. Frankly, even though I love gallente ships, I would have to say that your better off in an ammar BS. Especially since your a lower skilled player, you'll find them much more to your liking. Not true about the damage part, Armageddon in shortrange slightly outdamages blasterthron. Armageddon with beams vastly outdamages 425s. Assume maxed skills: Megathron with 7 425 IIs + 7 dmg mods = ((10.3748)/4.37) 7 = 797.3 Armageddon with 3 Daul Heavy Beam II and 4 Mega Beam II = (((9.2548)/3.03) 4) + (((6.1748)/2.42) 3) = 953.14 Don't make fun of my sloppy math :\ EDIT: Worded something wrong
kwoodward	Posted - 2005.05.31 15:33:00 - [35] yes it does out dmg BUT...... the point that is missed what dmg types does it do? em mostly at long range radio MEGAT can happly hit to 100KM with iridum witch has Kin /therm at close range MEGA still hits kin/therm geddon em/therm IMO the mega does a much more usefull dmg type as kinetic is much less likely to be tanked than therm /em Meow!
laserc	Posted - 2005.05.31 15:38:00 - [36] Not imo, being able to one volley shields kinda evens out the damage types But, point of my reply was megathrons don't do more damage then a armageddon, not range and whatnot.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:06:00 - [37] Edited by: Meridius on 31/05/2005 16:17:47 Originally by: laserc Megathron with 7 425 IIs + 7 dmg mods = ((10.3748)/4.37) 7 = 797.3 Armageddon with 3 Daul Heavy Beam II and 4 Mega Beam II = (((9.2548)/3.03) 4) + (((6.1748)/2.42) 3) = 953.14 Don't make fun of my sloppy math :\ Serious range issues tho. Dual Heavy Beam II: Optimal: 52.5km Falloff: 15km Mega Beam II: Optimal: 60km Falloff: 20km 425mm II: Optimal: 72km Falloff: 30km 37% greater optimal then Dual Heavy Beam II 200% greater falloff then Dual Heavy Beam II 20% greater optimal then Mega Beam II 50% greater falloff then Mega Beam II The 425mm II completely owns them both at range and falloff so it can hit harder at longer ranges. Radio does the same total damage as long range hybrid but is restricted to EM vs longrange hybrid having thermal and kinetic damage. ________________________________________________________
kwoodward	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:08:00 - [38] i'd take 1 volley shield 1 volley armour 0.4 volley hull over 1 volley shield 2 volley armour 1 voley hull anyday T2 newt blasterthron hurts bad T2 geddon hurts bad but i prefer the geddon shooting my ass everytime. T2 tanking blaster < geddon : take the tanked mega anyday T2 ganking mega > geddon : take a geddon anyday and as for range i have fought both same thing the megat scares the living crap outta me @100km the geddon is poor at that range. However @ 50-80 km the geddon is better. another note is you never fit full ganksetups if you got sense some stabs are a must. + the main point here MEGA has style these are the view of a biased galenteeian who cant spell for toffie. Meow!
laserc	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:16:00 - [39] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: laserc Megathron with 7 425 IIs + 7 dmg mods = ((10.3748)/4.37) 7 = 797.3 Armageddon with 3 Daul Heavy Beam II and 4 Mega Beam II = (((9.2548)/3.03) 4) + (((6.1748)/2.42) 3) = 953.14 Don't make fun of my sloppy math :\ Serious range issues tho. Dual Heavy Beam II: Optimal: 52.5km Falloff: 15km Mega Beam II: Optimal: 60km Falloff: 20km 425mm II: Optimal: 72km Falloff: 30km 37% greater optimal then Dual Heavy Beam II 200% greater falloff then Dual Heavy Beam II 20% greater optimal then Mega Beam II 50% greater falloff then Mega Beam II The 425mm II completely owns them both at range and falloff so it can hit harder at longer ranges. Radio does the same damage as long range hybrid but is restricted to EM vs longrange hybrid having thermal and kinetic damage. Your completely right, but as stated above point of my reply was not to say geddon is better at everything, but does do more damage.
Atandros	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:32:00 - [40] Edited by: Atandros on 31/05/2005 16:36:10 Edited by: Atandros on 31/05/2005 16:35:07 Originally by: Xardrix Dominix :-1 (Its Sh!t, and it looks like a big turd. Who cares about drones?) Anyone who does the math for their damage and considers the fact that you have 6 highs, 5 meds and 7 lows to play with after getting the damage of several T2 large blasters for free in the damage type of your choice. Durrr
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:46:00 - [41] Originally by: laserc Your completely right, but as stated above point of my reply was not to say geddon is better at everything, but does do more damage. Ah ok but my comment was based on Originally by: laserc Armageddon in long range vastly outdamages 425s. ________________________________________________________
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:55:00 - [42] Originally by: kamikaze5 I am not really taking the domi into consideration. If I need something to transport drones in ill use a hauler. Hush now, u know not what u speak. MLM pilots in Sucka Doms have been very very effective. One of the corps fav BS, when we use em. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Hamatitio	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:42:00 - [43] Dominix can run: 6x 250s (lol, I know) 5x Cap chargers 2x Large Armor reps 3x Hardeners 2x Relays Forever! IMO it tanks better than apoc, its damage is just severely gimped...Severely. -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Atandros Edited by: Atandros on 31/05/2005 16:36:10 Edited by: Atandros on 31/05/2005 16:35:07 Originally by: Xardrix Dominix :-1 (Its Sh!t, and it looks like a big turd. Who cares about drones?) Domi is pretty ridiculous in small groups or solo. Dual 250s + lots of mag stab IIs + shield tank + lots and lots of heavy drones = omgwtfgank + omgwtfyouhaveatanktoo?!?
slapp	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:47:00 - [45] domi: arguably the best 1vs1 bs in game (raven can compete with it) mega: warp in at 40 km, and laugh at geddon as you fire with your best ammo while geddon is struggling with radio crystals apoc: uhm...yeah, apocalol 4tw geddon: undisputable king of medium sized battles (bring domi/raven fitted correctly and geddon will suck yer sackballs)
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2005.06.01 00:24:00 - [46] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 01/06/2005 00:39:24 Here are a few setups I have liked 6x 350mm Railgun II(297/11814) 1x xlarge Clarity(160/500) 1x shield boost amp(50/1) 1x heavy electrochem.(40/1750) 1x EM hardener(32/1) 1x thermal hardener(32/1) 2x RCU II(30/0) 4x Mag Stab II(120/4) 1x CoPro II(0/1) 6x dual 250mm railgun II 1x xlarge clarity 1x shield boost amp 1x heavy electrochem. 1x annointed EM 1x ditrigonal thermal 6x Mag Stab II 1x copro II 6x electron cannon II 1x 100mn MWD 1x xlarge clarity 2x shield boost amp 1x heavy electrochem. 5x Mag Stab II 1x PDUII 1x COPRO II Or you can go with a nice armor tanked nos setup... I am the OG PIIIIIMP
Remedial	Posted - 2005.06.01 00:42:00 - [47] Edited by: Remedial on 01/06/2005 00:44:07 You guys dissing Doms are idiots. Consider for a moment that a Dom has 5 midslots and an Armageddon has 17 sensor strength. Really, how difficult would it be for a Dom to jam an Arma 1v1 with 3 multispectral IIs? Hell you could sit there with medium nosses in the highs, 2 t2 large reps and 5 hardeners and waste the Arma with 13 berserkers without breaking a sweat - and you still have thousands of grid to spare. Even with a backup ECCM the Arma still has a ~20-25% chance of being jammed by each jammer per cycle, let alone the 33%+ base chance it has when the Gallente pilot has Sensor Dispersion IV. The Dom is the best 1v1 non-faction PvP ship in the game because its primary damage requires 0 cap (drones), it's the only Gallente ship that can really switch up damage types at will (can hold 30 heavy drones of various types), its primary damage isn't negated by ECM (drones still attack), it has a 7 lowslot armor tank, and it has midslots for either EXTRA cap for a tank or ECM. People complain about how crap the Dom's grid is without realizing that if the Dom had any more grid, the Megathron would be terrible by comparison. All this and a Dom can be easily nabbed for 65M or less isk any day of the week. Edit: Also the Dom can take a Raven 1v1 because it has the two components which wreck an FoF setup: jamming power and dronage. After the missile nerf and a siege launcher can't fire off cruises, it won't even be a contest.
kamikaze5	Posted - 2005.06.01 05:22:00 - [48] Thanks for everyones help on this. I see that the domi is a very underated ship, which can be used to its advantage. The mega is very powerful, both with blaster and with 425's. 425's just need to be used at either under geddon range <50km or above it >100km. Also use a full on gank most of the time. The mega also has no uber setup. Makes it harder to fit but also much harder to predict. The geddon will almost always have the same setup. This can be predicted and countered if youre smart. Which type of guns does the standard gankageddon setup use? What range does it usually have? 50-80k? I know by fitting different crystals range can be changed but if I have an idea of its usual ranges it would help. In pvp the apoc isnt as seen as much. It can tank very well but this vastly gimps its dmg output. With an all out gank setup it is very stong but most people will still go with the geddon. The math of a blastatron vs shortrange geddon and rail/snipertron vs gankageddon usually favor the geddon, though the math I have seen has varied. Again thanks to everyone who has posted, its really helped me out. Please continue this discussion as I know im not the only one benefieting it. Thanks, Kamikaze5
Xardrix	Posted - 2005.06.01 06:46:00 - [49] Firstly, The "Short Range" Geddon IS the GankGeddon which uses Mega Pulse 2s at a range of 5-30km Secondly, The Long range ship to fear (for the Amarr) is the Apoc, fitting its 8 Tachys. Radio don't deal the most damage, but it hits from 30km (Multifrequency Crystals for a potential 1000k+ Damage/hit) to 120km (Radio Crystals for about 300/hit). Last, the Dominix is a VERY underrated ship. mainly because a smartbomb can destroy your main damage output. It is a good ship thou. PVP doesn't see enough of it, and IÆm not sure why. However, as an Amarr pilot, I have faced both Dominixs and Megathrons and had a much harder time fighting off the Mega pilots. 1v1, Megas are the ship to fear. The Dominix, even tanked, doesn't last very long, and isn't the most damaging ship. And as a rule of thumb, Tanks can't take PVP damage output, so the best defense is killing faster than you're killed. The main advantage of a Dominix IMHO is the 5 mids for jamming, considering jamming has become a close range thing, and they are built for close range anyway. Choose for yourself. No matter what race you choose, you should be able to do well. Good Luck. Xardrix Amarr Loyalist and Patriot
kwoodward	Posted - 2005.06.01 08:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 01/06/2005 00:39:24 Here are a few setups I have liked 6x 350mm Railgun II(297/11814) 1x xlarge Clarity(160/500) 1x shield boost amp(50/1) 1x heavy electrochem.(40/1750) 1x EM hardener(32/1) 1x thermal hardener(32/1) 2x RCU II(30/0) 4x Mag Stab II(120/4) 1x CoPro II(0/1) 6x dual 250mm railgun II 1x xlarge clarity 1x shield boost amp 1x heavy electrochem. 1x annointed EM 1x ditrigonal thermal 6x Mag Stab II 1x copro II 6x electron cannon II 1x 100mn MWD 1x xlarge clarity 2x shield boost amp 1x heavy electrochem. 5x Mag Stab II 1x PDUII 1x COPRO II Or you can go with a nice armor tanked nos setup... drop some of the Tech 2 for named you dont need the RCu /cpu/pdu the electron setup works better with Modals as then u can fit either 2 more magstab2's or a pair of WCS + named blasers arnt actually that expesive Meow!
laserc	Posted - 2005.06.01 14:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Xardrix Firstly, The "Short Range" Geddon IS the GankGeddon which uses Mega Pulse 2s at a range of 5-30km Secondly, The Long range ship to fear (for the Amarr) is the Apoc, fitting its 8 Tachys. Radio don't deal the most damage, but it hits from 30km (Multifrequency Crystals for a potential 1000k+ Damage/hit) to 120km (Radio Crystals for about 300/hit). Last, the Dominix is a VERY underrated ship. mainly because a smartbomb can destroy your main damage output. It is a good ship thou. PVP doesn't see enough of it, and IÆm not sure why. However, as an Amarr pilot, I have faced both Dominixs and Megathrons and had a much harder time fighting off the Mega pilots. 1v1, Megas are the ship to fear. The Dominix, even tanked, doesn't last very long, and isn't the most damaging ship. And as a rule of thumb, Tanks can't take PVP damage output, so the best defense is killing faster than you're killed. The main advantage of a Dominix IMHO is the 5 mids for jamming, considering jamming has become a close range thing, and they are built for close range anyway. Choose for yourself. No matter what race you choose, you should be able to do well. Good Luck. Apoc has better range as a long range ship(beams) but the armageddon has much higher damage output. Apoc doing ~600-700 Geddon doing ~900
Remedial	Posted - 2005.06.01 16:54:00 - [52] Keep in mind that in any gallente vs. amarr fight, the gallente start off with a resist advantage against lasers since they're 60% EM from the get-go.
Soros	Posted - 2005.06.01 17:21:00 - [53] Victim: Alliance: Corporation: Destroyed Type: Megathron Solar System: System Security Level: Involved parties: Name: Security Status: Alliance: Corporation: Ship Type: Apocalypse Weapon Type: Bane Torpedo I Name: Ukiah Security Status: Corporation: Ship Type: Crusader Weapon Type: Just an idea of mega vs apoc: Type: Ion Blaster Cannon II (Fitted - High slot) he kept distance. He won -= Soros =- = Firmux Ixion =
Tatsue Niko	Posted - 2005.06.01 17:48:00 - [54] Just 2 points i'd like to add. MWD on gankgeddon,makes it interesting vs a thron. 1 or 2 Cap injector on apoc,3 large armor reps anyone? Tatsue..
kamikaze5	Posted - 2005.06.01 22:13:00 - [55] Well I guess my last and final question; if you were going to train for one of these (amarr or gallente t2 turrets/bs 5) which one would you go for? Solely based on the BS's of each race. Considering training time for both is close enough it wont really make a difference. And if possible why. Thanks, Kamikaze5
kessah	Posted - 2005.06.02 00:19:00 - [56] Originally by: Hamatitio Dominix can run: 6x 250s (lol, I know) 5x Cap chargers 2x Large Armor reps 3x Hardeners 2x Relays Forever! IMO it tanks better than apoc, its damage is just severely gimped...Severely. The cap bonus and the added grid makes the apoc tower in suprior tankage. use t2 dual pulse in high 8 of them meds whatever but make sure you have a cap booster with 800's lows 3x large armour reppers, 3 hardeners, 1x 1600mm tungsten or 4 hardeners. if you know what your up against more than like amarr then tank accordingly 2 therm 1 em. i tanked a cerberus gankgeddon and an sniping apoc with out breaking a sweat. Sticking one cap recharge in mids helps you keep above 95% cap. Apoc for me and my dual t2 pulse hits untanked sheilds for 250-300dmg, and tanked about 100-150 per shot that aint bad considering the rof with good skills should be about 4seconds armour its about 100-150 tanked and 200-250 untanked depending on what your shooting. Apoc it the ultimate bait -------------------------------------------------------- Im Your Huckleberry ;-)
Night Bringer	Posted - 2005.06.11 10:07:00 - [57] aww cmon, give the domi some luvin :) to quote somone i saw in the fourms a while back Dominix = Blob in a can ;) ive seen these things take down geddons with ease P.S. = Never underestimate Gallente we are pure dmg dealers, so get over it ;)
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.06.11 10:26:00 - [58] if an amarr ship has an mwd fitted then the megathron with blasters is screwed unless he makes a bm, warps out and hopefully warps in locks and webs the git before he flys off. Rails however u dont need to worry about this. I'd have to agree with Lorths first post. Your better off with amarr as they don't require so many skills. ___________________________________ cough cough sniff cough cough cough burp cough

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