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Loka	Posted - 2005.05.31 08:01:00 - [31] Edited by: Loka on 31/05/2005 08:09:04 Nice one DC. A good thing would be a Concorde reaction after you get rubbed. This would kill the mulitple ransome thing someone mentioned above, where 10 players steal from you more then once. So once someone has succeeded in his piracy on you, 10 Concord BS spawn in the next 30 sec and will shoot anyone, who is criminal flagged. So after you got robbed, your ass will be safe. This could be explained, by your ship sending a distress code after the crime, which was catched by the police, which will come for you helping you. And another good nerf on your ideas would be an imunity shield which last for 2 min after you got robbed once. So if 10 ppl would use such pirate modules on you, you will get immune for 2 min after the first pirate module succeeded on you. And dont forget after 30 sec the Concord will show up and blow all criminal flagged ppl up. Concorde shouldnt be able to follow ppl to safespot, but will patrol all gates, stations and jump from belt to belt with the goal to catch the criminals. Once your flagging timer ran off, they vanish again, after unseccessfull hunt. This system will prevent exploiting, like more than one will steal from you and also more then once. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
Necrologic	Posted - 2005.05.31 08:34:00 - [32] Good ideas. Would take some tweaking, but could be fun. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.05.31 08:35:00 - [33] I still think piracy in EVE is trying to make ISK with PVP. My defintion might also hit on bounty hunters that also try to make ISK with PVP. So i can change it to: Piracy is making ISK with PVP and robbery. And where you Digi Com are right is that as long there are no "tools" for robbery and as long real PVP (not ganking 10 vs 1) is made expensive and difficult, there will be no good piracy, no good pirate hunters. We really try to keep piracy alive with the poor tools we have: chat to toll, scramblers to nail, and guns to kill if they dont pay. But we dont want to focus on these 10 vs 1 ganks. We would like to pirate 1 vs 1 or 3 vs 3. The shipwrecks are the option because there is a reward for the risk and PVP-corps can make ISK by slaugthering each other. Be sure that in Syndicate we wont focus on killing haulers if shipwrecks are coded. We will go for your and other PVP-corps Digi. We want your shipwreck . We did even invent *TRAVEL SAFE TM* and made several corps (names wont be given) pay us - volume: rounabout 1 billion ISK with small deals - 30 mil ISK/week to inssure the whole corp. So take a look at it: we had to do the DEVs job an invented piracy features. Unfortunatly *POS INSURANCE TM* doesnt work - people are not willing to pay for their absolutly safe POS. Anyway i like another topic about this problem - firing 2 guns is better than firing 1
Fellhand	Posted - 2005.05.31 08:44:00 - [34] Mostly praise, couple of minor objections. While I don't want to get bogged down one one suggestion the possibility of stealing ISK from someone's wallet really is overpowered, especially if teh victim has no way of defending against it. It would need the introduction of (for example) a firewall module or implant just to keep some possibility of defending against it. Some of this seems to be shifting the focus from ships to individuals. Not sure if that's a bad thing, just an observation. Mostly, it's good stuff, plus I now have teh image of hacking the sentry guns at Yulai to open fire on anything that comes near and causing utter mayhem With the promised mini-professions, I think you might actually see progress toward some of this. Of course, this being CCP's projections, don't buy it until you eye it. There's a lot that needs doing to piracy, the introduction of a ransom system is desperatly needed, so is a total overhaul of the bounty system. I still like teh idea of being able to become a true privateer (get a letter of marque from an empire, don't shoot their ships or ships in their territory and you're free from retribution while you're in their territory). Perhaps the introduction of some kind of "underworld gossip", say everyone with -5.0 sec standing gets access to a common channel for pirates. Good ideas mostly. Not all workable of course but a good place to start. _______________________________________________ There is no such thing as too much cynicism Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats... Beware of geeks bearing gifs
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.05.31 08:59:00 - [35] hmm... Destroy someone by using a set of skills you have to train? No thanks. The way you can use corp thieves, alt spies and public killboards atm is more than enough.
Ssoraszh Tzarszh	Posted - 2005.05.31 09:56:00 - [36] Long, hehe, read the whole thing and it sounds interesting, one could just copy this and say look a devblog . As always people hate to loose isk/ships/stuff and won't like the idea's at all, but i think if something like this would be comming it could change the whole low sec piracy scene. I do believe said items/skills need pretty high requirements, maybe even only possible from specialised ships small/medium/large one can only obtain via one of the advanced pirate factions, either missions or ridiculous expensive bpo, same with the modules needed for it. Otherwise we will see a lot of gangs with one hacker who steals your isk/cargo, then proceeds to kill your ship anyway cause they would be greedy. Furthermore, hacking is difficult and would have a default toughness to it making successfull hacks more rare the more difficult the task. For example: Hack cargo 20% chance to hit 20-70% of cargo drops to space in a container with a 3 minute timer on the module. Hack wallet 10% chance to hit 1-10% last x amount of transactions like you said with a 5 minute timer on the module and only be possible when having the victim targeted ofcource. Drop pod out of ship would be nigh impossible and maybe only have 5% chance with a 10 minute timer on the module. But as all idea's are, this one needs testing hopefully CCP will see this and have a copy of it on the table next time they have a brainstorm session
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.05.31 10:38:00 - [37] Come on DC, you don't have to pretend anymore, we all know you're really a minerÖ... [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.05.31 10:54:00 - [38] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 31/05/2005 10:54:52 Good stuff DC. I actually like all of it. Concerns about balancing it are just secondary, but the primary ideas sound solid. As for one of those secondary concerns: defence against wallet stealing. Didn't he say if would get the thief a flag ? I se no overpowering here. You get a warning (he is locking you), you get the opportunity to retaliate (flag), and when the pirate enforces his thievery with actual show of force the sentries open up on him (overt violence: web, scramble, guns). _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2005.05.31 11:28:00 - [39] i still think that modules with the abiltiy of removing money from a victims wallet would lead to not much more than people using alts to store their funds (thus unnecessarily complicating gameplay), and would not be in line with the way people put their stuff at risk in eve (aka you risk what you undock with, which is quite alright in my opinion). if however you disagree with that a suggestion to extend that skill would be hacking personal and/or corporate hangar access.
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.05.31 11:28:00 - [40] In response to the original post: Probably the best piracy improvement post for Eve that I've read ever. Having said that, if CCP were tp try and impliment some or all of those, they'd need to do so with vast care and pre-nerfing.
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.05.31 11:42:00 - [41] On the Isk theft module. That is something that would NEED to be pre-nerfed to hell and back. And that assumes it was allowed in game at all. One nerf, for example, would be making its use impossible if a Passive Targeter was fitted to the ship. Defensive modules should also be made available.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.05.31 12:01:00 - [42] all good ideas, but that isk thef module is a bit.. overpowered.. I can come up with a million exploits with it if not balanced properly. One idea is the ability of only 1 guy using the module for X time, and limited to a certain % ammount (F. ex.: 1 minute per each thef perpetrated by you, and 10 minutes for anyone else, after you stole the guy's isk. and the % could be something skill and module based. like 30% base of the wallet or smth, coupled with a very high miss ratio.). ofc it's all hypotetical (sp?) numbers. nevertheless, great post DC. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Avon	Posted - 2005.05.31 13:22:00 - [43] Bad news DC. I agree with you 100%, which will unfortunately discredit your ideas. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.05.31 13:36:00 - [44] The one thing that won't work here is the wallet hacking. For very obvious reasons. Imagine a noob who goes to negative 5 million on his first day. But everything else... yes. Being able to cut into someone's hull and loot the cargo, etc... I like it. -- The best description of alliances, ever:
Skeeve	Posted - 2005.05.31 14:01:00 - [45] as much as I hate to say it.. Digi has some good ideas / points. Piracy right now is Lock / Fire / Pod / clean up the remains, and that's NOT what piracy should be about. The current setup only enoourages griefing because that's ALL they can do. True pirates need the mods and skills to find, hunt, trap, drop from warp their prey. Warp disruptor deployable that would PULL a ship from warp on commonly used flight paths in the middle of a system not at a gate. I've never been agains piracy ... it's the Gankers/Campers that I dispise... Good post from Digi altho like most rational and well thought out ideas it will quickly be lost in the mists of time. "Your Mother was a Hamster.. and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" - traditional French Insult
Avon	Posted - 2005.05.31 14:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Dark Shikari The one thing that won't work here is the wallet hacking. For very obvious reasons. Imagine a noob who goes to negative 5 million on his first day. But everything else... yes. Being able to cut into someone's hull and loot the cargo, etc... I like it. Commenting before comprehension makes you look dumb. Go back and read it again. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Gigi Barbagrigia	Posted - 2005.05.31 14:53:00 - [47] Anything that adds more width to a game is a good one in my book. No point in taking apart an idea and nitpick it at this stage. I took it as a suggestion for something new people could do and as such, I like it. ----- 42
Nafri	Posted - 2005.05.31 15:18:00 - [48] I wouldnt mind a ISK thief module, I have nothing to loose, and lots to gain Wanna fly with me?
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.05.31 15:39:00 - [49] Digi you are my hero, i just love those ideas Of course evrything takes a lot of tweaking but i would pay to see these implmented into the game ------------------ Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine
Meehan	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:08:00 - [50] Absolutely marvellous ideas. Unfortunately, I've lost faith in this kind of creative thinking for this game... Feel free to prove me wrong, devs
Avon	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:11:00 - [51] Thinks out loud Rod, Disco, Viceroy, DC and me would make a great dev team. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:44:00 - [52] Love the ideas, make it happen CCP.
Pitt	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:46:00 - [53] Many good ideas. Not all of which I agree with but, atleast people are starting to think about what's gone wrong with piracy. My idea is along the same lines as yours, piracy through learned skills. But, mine are more the social skill's. example: empire web/warp agression skill. It would allow you to warp jam and or web in empire without the sentry's opening fire on you. The higher the skill the more times you can web/jam someone an hour or greater % of time it works. You still take the security hit and flag but no sentry fire. And other skills along those lines. Use that with some of your idea's and possably lifewire's color stroking idea(?) and there may be a workable solution to the current gate gank situation. The main problem as it is now, is that the amount of time pirates have to communicate, stop, even kill their prey is so little. Hopefully something will be done to remedy the problem. *Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute greifing on mine*
Frankinator	Posted - 2005.05.31 20:57:00 - [54] Edited by: Frankinator on 31/05/2005 20:57:23 Im gonna print out the bookwork you wrote DigitalCommunicator, read that in bed and post my opinion here tomorrow. Also a friendly bump since this was on page 2 already, and that's not fair considering the amount of text you wrote. :/
Fellhand	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:05:00 - [55] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 31/05/2005 10:54:52 Good stuff DC. I actually like all of it. Concerns about balancing it are just secondary, but the primary ideas sound solid. As for one of those secondary concerns: defence against wallet stealing. Didn't he say if would get the thief a flag ? I se no overpowering here. You get a warning (he is locking you), you get the opportunity to retaliate (flag), and when the pirate enforces his thievery with actual show of force the sentries open up on him (overt violence: web, scramble, guns). Missed that part, thanks for pointing it out. Still think it would need to be a chance-based skill (say: 5% chance of success per level) or we'd just end up with the current gank-groups switching to this method instead. However, that's a balancing issue and as you say, secondary to the goodness of the original approach. _______________________________________________ There is no such thing as too much cynicism Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats... Beware of geeks bearing gifs
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:31:00 - [56] The trick with the isk-stealing is that anyone with 1/2 a brain would keep the vast majority of their Isk with station alts until needed. Overall some interesting ideas, the idea of some form of theft with criminal flagging but no sentry response is intriguing. Personally I'd rather CCP prioritize supports for "traditional" tole-based piracy, but these idea of being able to steal cargo or board the ship seems cool too. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:41:00 - [57] Originally by: Frankinator Edited by: Frankinator on 31/05/2005 20:57:23 Im gonna print out the bookwork you wrote DigitalCommunicator, read that in bed and post my opinion here tomorrow. Also a friendly bump since this was on page 2 already, and that's not fair considering the amount of text you wrote. :/ points at frank's sig and laughs like hell sorry, bit of OT, but couldn't help it ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Avon	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Bobby Wilson The trick with the isk-stealing is that anyone with 1/2 a brain would keep the vast majority of their Isk with station alts until needed. Overall some interesting ideas, the idea of some form of theft with criminal flagging but no sentry response is intriguing. Personally I'd rather CCP prioritize supports for "traditional" tole-based piracy, but these idea of being able to steal cargo or board the ship seems cool too. BW Of course, if you'd bother to read the idea all the way through you would see that using an alt to hold your money would not work. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:59:00 - [59] actually i think it would if your alt did the bulk of your transactions too.
Avon	Posted - 2005.05.31 22:39:00 - [60] Originally by: Gerome Doutrande actually i think it would if your alt did the bulk of your transactions too. So you have to move your alt everywhere you go? Otherwise your main will have to at least buy or sell something, and either end of the transaction is as good as the other. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.

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