Wow! Tengu rocks so hard.
I mean you kill small rats very fast compared to other ships and also almost the same with some big targets.
The coolest thing is you also fly very fast making this ship #1 missile ship for missions.
Good info!

I wish you could do some comparison like Tengu vs Vargur/Mach :D

I wouldn't put it in quite the same league as Mach/Vargur. It's 575 dps (hml, CN) or 628 dps (ham, jav, 3x range rigs) with 4x CN bcs, compared to 1300 dps of Mach/Vargur with 4x RF gyros. Rage ham ranges are far too low to be comparable to the 75km of Mach/Vargur, while still doesn't come close to the dps.

I fly both Mach and Tengu, the difference is visceral.

Helpful research.

I do have some questions as to what other factors might be important to consider in determining the true damage output of these ships/weapon systems. For example, sig radius bloom when NPCs are using MWD? In this instance torps might deal far more damage than HAMs or HMLs and the TTK and number of volleys would therefore be less.

Since Retribution went live, I have never had to use more than two volleys of CN torps (explosive) to down any Angel elite frig including the Viper in the spreadsheet. Also take into consideration that my skills are not maxed - Marauders 4, Guided Missile Precision skill is 4, and no 5% explosion radius implant. Also, I'm only using two meta 4 TPs instead of the RF varieties.

cute, but I'm appalled the golem is being compared to the tengu. with wasted rigs on torp range. worthless.

you stick a prop mod on it, and move the platform to the pockets. a marauder is not a strategic cruiser; it's a marauder

"look at how much the marauder sucks at being a strategic cruiser!"

you use a tengu in missions when you can't fly a marauder yet. tractor beam range is 48km. rage and you're done. prop mod, kill and salvage missions by the pockets they spawn in.

Not to mention he is using Thermal on the CNR cruise vs Vipers.

OP: Do you take travel time into account for those fits when you calculate killtime? It seems unreasonable to assume a HAM tengu would be fit with precision rigs when added range gives you more uptime. Unless your fit includes an mwd, at which point things get intresting.

Very true.
All I wanted is to see is the difference in numbers :D
It would be cool to say "Mach is 2 times better that Tengu" or something like that.

Helpful research.

I do have some questions as to what other factors might be important to consider in determining the true damage output of these ships/weapon systems. For example, sig radius bloom when NPCs are using MWD? In this instance torps might deal far more damage than HAMs or HMLs and the TTK and number of volleys would therefore be less.

Since Retribution went live, I have never had to use more than two volleys of CN torps (explosive) to down any Angel elite frig including the Viper in the spreadsheet. Also take into consideration that my skills are not maxed - Marauders 4, Guided Missile Precision skill is 4, and no 5% explosion radius implant. Also, I'm only using two meta 4 TPs instead of the RF varieties.

For the Vargur/Mach, it boils down to falloff. If you're in 50% falloff, you do 50% DPS, which is around 500 DPS at ~40km for a Vargur. You also don't have to worry about miscounting missile volleys.

The Mach also has the benefit of being able to effectively mount and fly with an MWD, so it can reduce falloff pretty quickly.

For the Vargur/Mach, it boils down to falloff. If you're in 50% falloff, you do 50% DPS, which is around 500 DPS at ~40km for a Vargur. You also don't have to worry about miscounting missile volleys.

The Mach also has the benefit of being able to effectively mount and fly with an MWD, so it can reduce falloff pretty quickly.

Ya, it's just I wasted more than 4bil on mods for my Mach and now I was just wondering if there is anything better.

P.S. I actually wanted to fly a Tengu after last patch TD madness, then I read about new Missile Projection mods that are going to be introduced soon. Basically missiles are going to be nerfed hard with this new mod, with TDs affecting them.

I wouldn't put it in quite the same league as Mach/Vargur. It's 575 dps (hml, CN) or 628 dps (ham, jav, 3x range rigs) with 4x CN bcs, compared to 1300 dps of Mach/Vargur with 4x RF gyros. Rage ham ranges are far too low to be comparable to the 75km of Mach/Vargur, while still doesn't come close to the dps.

I fly both Mach and Tengu, the difference is visceral.

cute, but I'm appalled the golem is being compared to the tengu. with wasted rigs on torp range. worthless.

you stick a prop mod on it, and move the platform to the pockets. a marauder is not a strategic cruiser; it's a marauder

"look at how much the marauder sucks at being a strategic cruiser!"

you use a tengu in missions when you can't fly a marauder yet. tractor beam range is 48km. rage and you're done. prop mod, kill and salvage missions by the pockets they spawn in.

I've never seen data on what the actual NPC sig bloom is. If we had that, then i could account for it.

Personally, I've never had much luck with gaming NPC sig bloom. IME, Angel elite frigates were so fast under MWD that they turned off their MWDs early and "coasted" in at fast speed and normal sig size. =(




That is interesting. And odd. When I get the time, I'll see if I can replicate it.

For the Vargur/Mach, it boils down to falloff. If you're in 50% falloff, you do 50% DPS, which is around 500 DPS at ~40km for a Vargur. You also don't have to worry about miscounting missile volleys.

The Mach also has the benefit of being able to effectively mount and fly with an MWD, so it can reduce falloff pretty quickly.

For the Vargur/Mach, it boils down to falloff. If you're in 50% falloff, you do 50% DPS, which is around 500 DPS at ~40km for a Vargur. You also don't have to worry about miscounting missile volleys.

The Mach also has the benefit of being able to effectively mount and fly with an MWD, so it can reduce falloff pretty quickly.

PvE Mach is better with AB IMHO.

L2falloff. http://eve.grismar.net/wikka.php?wakka=Falloff.
Doh! My bad. Also, better link: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage#Damage_and_DPS_reduction_due_to_a_lower_hit_chance



I disagree, every ~11km closer you get, you do 10% more damage.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58393-Machariel-Level-4-Blitzer-MWD-Web-EW-Drones-Minmatar-Space.html

You disagree with AB Mach with no reasoning other than an average machariel fit on battle clinic. Using an AB still gives just under 700 m/s cold ( I can't remember exact speed off-hand.) and lets you perma-zip around the room with the sig of a shield buffered battle cruiser. Speed and sig are also tank especially on a Mach. Try AB and MWD in space rather than EFT and I'm pretty sure you'll agree- for solo anyway. Just saying...

The fit I linked from battleclinic was my fitting that I use in Minmatar space. Speed tanking isn't necessary with the Mach. Pick a target, set keep at range to 12km, flip the MWD on until you're in range to use the Fed web and to use the Web & TP drones. Works quite well. Low transveral while MWD'ing in and then the web + web/tp drones keep the transversal low even at close range.

However, I will admit that I haven't bothering flying the mach since the drone aggression changes. But the drones are mostly just gravy anyway.

The fit I linked from battleclinic was my fitting that I use in Minmatar space. Speed tanking isn't necessary with the Mach. Pick a target, set keep at range to 12km, flip the MWD on until you're in range to use the Fed web and to use the Web & TP drones. Works quite well. Low transveral while MWD'ing in and then the web + web/tp drones keep the transversal low even at close range.

However, I will admit that I haven't bothering flying the mach since the drone aggression changes. But the drones are mostly just gravy anyway.