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Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
2758
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Posted - 2012.12.24 02:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, for those of you who have the EON lowsec map, and/or live in lowsec, what I'm about to go over will make sense pretty instantly, but for those of you who don't, it might take a bit of explanation.
First off, looking at a good flattened map of lowsec, showing lowsec connections, something becomes instantly clear: lowsec is not a ring around highsec, lowsec is a complicated maze of systems that leaves some areas completely cut off from others. If you're a pirate, or someone else with low sec status, it makes travelling anywhere very difficult, thus providing a huge disadvantage in travelling to people already limited by being cut off from highsec.
Examples of this are abundant:
*Lowsec Domain/Kor-Azor/Kador are cut off from lowsec Amarr facwar space, in order to get from one side of Amarr lowsec to the other, you have to take a complicated loop up through genesis, into Sinq Laison and Everyshore, and across the Schoorasana-Gratesier-Saidusarios Pipeline into the bleak lands.
*The factional warfare sections of Devoid and Derelik are completely cut off from the non-lowsec sections. The non-FW sections are a completely isolated lowsec pocket of about 50 systems, unreachable without going through highsec.
*Lowsec Lonetrek and lowsec The Forge are over a hundred jumps through lowsec away from each other. To get to the lowsec areas of The Forge, from Lonetrek, you have to go all the way through Black Rise, Verge Vender, Essence, again across the Schoorasana-Gratesier-Saidusarios Pipeline, then all the way up the Heimatar-Metro Pipe.
*Lowsec Khanid is cut off from one side of lowsec Tash-Murkon by highsec, necessitating a route up through the back end of Aridia and Genesis and around and down.
*Lowsec Solitude can only be reached by one non-nullsec route, into the back end of Genesis where it connects Aridia.
There are plenty more examples, but these are the most egregious examples of places with issues. What this ends up doing, is making it very very difficult for those with low security status to travel very far outside their system neighbourhood, thus encouraging a static existence with gatecamping and and roaming the same neighbourhoods constantly as the norm.
How to fix this is easy, just like highsec has Highway Gates, so too should lowsec. Turning lowsec into a true loop around highsec. There would still be some lowsec pockets, but not as many, and overall I think this would make pirates very happy. Here are some places, purely as speculative examples, of places where gate connections might be added:
Saikamon-Soosat
Sharir-Bairshir
Maila-Ihakana
Olettiers-Hypsera
Kenninck-Ratillose
Ashmarir-Rethan
Sibot-Soosat
Zinoo-Haras
Karan-Agaullores
Even with only the gate connections I've listed above, most of the problems would be solved and lowsec would be made much easier to travel around. To say nothing to the possibility of just adding more lowsec to turn it into a more complete loop. I also think much more NPC null should be added around the perimeter of lowsec, to form yet another loop, but that's a discussion to be had in another post, and would be a much more involved concept.
Overall adding gates is easy, and the benefits are huge, the drawbacks few.
So what does the community think?
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith
or the devils gonna claim your soul
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Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
317
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Posted - 2012.12.24 02:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1
E: Oh, right, you're not allowed to just agree with a post now. 
Good idea OP, I've always wondered why it's impossible to make a full circuitous route through low-sec. |
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
31
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Posted - 2012.12.24 02:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well of course I'm in favor. I full intend to one day be -10.0, and would love it if I could get to other low-sec areas rather than be trapped in a pocket. Of course, small fast ships will always be able to rush through hisec to get where they're going, but a lowsec PvP corporation with overall low security status should, in my opinoin, be able to take alternative paths other than hisec if they choose to move around. Hey CEO, bored of yarring around Molden Heath? No problem! Pack up your corp (with all the fun risks that entails!) and take the base of operations to the south-eastern lowsec areas of Devoid-Derelik (which is currently an isolated pocket).
I just think this would be a great idea, because it would allow some lowsec PvP groups to mess with other lowsec PvP groups they've never seen before on the other side of the map without having to dodge the cops all the time. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
134
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Posted - 2012.12.24 03:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think this is a very viable ideal, would allow pvp roams to new low sec areas without the hi sec nerf bat that a -10 would get trying to get to another low sec area, interesting ideal.  |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU
Open Space Consultancy
73
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Posted - 2012.12.24 03:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1
I'm kinda amazed this isn't in game already as it's a small fix for huge gain. |
Evei Shard
135
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Posted - 2012.12.24 03:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
+1
Though I'd like to see the changes made so that they result in multiple pathways around the ring. This would create territory for roams to occur. Avoiding choke-points might be important, simply because those systems would wind up so camped that they'd defeat the idea of being able to get around high-sec.
Profit favors the prepared |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1574
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Posted - 2012.12.24 03:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
I expected a thread about highways for highseccers to bypass lowsec.
I got a thread about highways for lowseccers to bypass highsec.
+1
-áObjects in mirror aren't as red as they appear. |
Jacob Rider
Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.12.24 03:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
I fully support the idea in the OP.
Wouldn't mind playing in the proposed ring around High-Sec. |
Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
163
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Posted - 2012.12.24 04:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
-1
I want lowsec and highsec to be more scattered. I ******* love regions like Solitude. |
Rhaetic
Black Ice Consortium
44
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Posted - 2012.12.24 04:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:-1
I want lowsec and highsec to be more scattered. I ******* love regions like Solitude. I do not like loops.
The OP's idea is great. There is nothing in his idea that precludes isolated pockets of Low Sec or even Null Sec.
Hell, I've often thought that there should be isolated pockets of High Sec out in the far reaches of space, on the other side of NPC-controlled and SOV 0.0 territory -- a place for smaller groups or individual players to launch incursions into the more dangerous parts of space while still having some degree of safety to fall back upon... or retreat to.
EVE needs lonely corners of space -- this much is true -- but it also needs to recognize the type of people who are drawn to a particular area or gameplay style and provide support for them. It's a little ridiculous that people who live in Low Sec because they like the PvP and the danger but have low security status as a result would ever have to make a trip back to High Sec for any reason whatsoever. You should literally be able to move there permanently and never have to see High or Null Sec at all.
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
233
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Posted - 2012.12.24 07:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
I like lowsec the way it is.
If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
77
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Posted - 2012.12.24 07:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tbh the entire layout of the systems is a bit weird, yeah its unique and keeps the game away from this "leveled" feel you get from games like borderlands 2, where the further you go out the harder it gets.
However I do beleive it should be like a nutshell, the center being highsec, inner shell being lowsec then the outer unprotected part of the shell being nullsec.
Currently its all over the place, making it harder to travel for pirates and easier to dodge choke points. |
Cindy Marco
Expanse Security
86
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Posted - 2012.12.24 07:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
There are already too many highways, and travel is too fast.
If anything they should remove the high sec highways between Minmatar/Gallente, and Amarr/Caldari space. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
537
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Posted - 2012.12.24 07:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
altho I do agree with the OP in full, a bit more research before implementing it would be the best.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
537
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Posted - 2012.12.24 07:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:I like lowsec the way it is. It make the universe zones feel unique, for exempe, places like solitude are special.
while I do understand where you're coming from, another losec route to solitude wouldn't be that harmful.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
killorbekilled TBE
Initiated
137
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Posted - 2012.12.24 08:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dont be low sec status and you wont have these problems, if you insist on being low sec status then that is your choice no one is trapping you in your so called low sec rabbit hutch but you im afraid
TrollorbeTrolled |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1454
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Posted - 2012.12.24 08:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
This also would be solved by turning hisec empires into island separated by lowsec.
I tried to remove this sig. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
357
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Posted - 2012.12.24 09:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Highways are already bad and should be removed completely as they make the universe too small and too easy, It's like jump bridges for highsec. So no, don't add more.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything. |
Adam Junior
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
85
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Posted - 2012.12.24 11:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Don't you dare touch my Solituide. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
THE ROYAL NAVY
898
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Posted - 2012.12.24 12:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
On the face of things, this sounds like a fantastic idea. But when you really think about it. having lowsec split up is actually great. It maintains how lowsec is still filled with small gangs. If lowsec were one continues loop, then it would be possible for one or two massive pirate entities to control lowsec in it's entirety, much like null sec is now.
I don't want my lowsec all blue. I like my fights, and I like the fact that big pirate alliances are isolated to certain areas. It also gives smaller corps and alliances the chance to find an area or lowsec to call their home,without having to worry about other lowsec residence come in force.
I will be very very upset if this happened. No to all blue space, no to bland territory controlled by one or two coalitions, and no to isolating small corps trying to leave highsec.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
172
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Posted - 2012.12.24 12:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
I love this idea, I only live in low sec and hate the fact that when i wish to visit other areas I had to train up a carrier alt :/ |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
2768
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Okay, here are a few quick rebuttals to people who are against this idea:
"Pirates should deal with the consequences of their actions, they CHOSE to be pirates"
And mission runners chose to run missions, but that doesn't mean that every rat in the mission should have a longpoint and a web. Piracy is already really hurting as a form of gameplay. Its hard to earn a living in lowsec, its hard to get ransoms, no one lives there so its hard to find kills and mostly what people end up doing is just running roaming gangs into either the other pirates or into factional warfare groups. What the game currently considers 'pirates' based on security status are really mostly 'small gang pvpers.' Piracy, as in, killing/ransoming helpless ships to make ISK is practically dead, just for the reason that there is no one around to pirate. The only people living in lowsec right now are there for small gang PVP. That's really all that lowsec is good for at the moment. Increasing the interlinks between regions would boost that form of gameplay by giving a way for roaming gangs to go into wider areas.
"It would change the fundamental nature of lowsec by removing some interesting terrain created by different system linkages"
Notice that the suggestions for what gates to add are just ideas. I'm not a CCP Dev, I don't have the training in game design to be able to pick the exact best places for interlinks to go, to maintain the varied terrain of lowsec. Maybe solitude should stay isolated? I don't know. But I've gone into Solitude at 17-1800 and had to wait for systems to turn on because no one had been there all day. Its cool in principal to have isolated systems, but if no one's using them then all they're doing is taking up server space. I don't want lowsec to change into a nullsec NAPtrain, and I don't think it will change just from being easier to get around. A giant powerbloc won't take over lowsec for the same reason it won't take over highsec: because there's nothing for them there. People in lowsec don't want blues. I've had people offer to blue me repeatedly and I've turned them down 99% of the time, on the grounds that if I blue everyone then who can I shoot at? What's the point? People don't go to lowsec for the NAPtrain, they go to lowsec for pvp, and that's hard to do when everyone's your best friend.
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith
or the devils gonna claim your soul
|
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
80
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
On the surface it sounds like a good idea. I don't venture into lowsec often so I can't speak to the detailed implications, but CCP did a similar thing in nullsec by adding something called Smuggler Gates that connected the far reaches of nullsec to one another (ex, Y-2 in Fountain to ZXB in Delve) so it'd be possible to fly between the edges of nullsec without needing to enter lowsec or hisec.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Stargate#Smuggler.27s_Gate |
Unoob Udumb
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:people already limited by being cut off from highsec.
This is a joke, right?
Consequences ... |
Jev North
Anshar Incorporated
115
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Very much agreed. I think more space and better interconnection will help make lowsec more viable as a separate ecosystem. |
March rabbit
Aliastra
294
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Posted - 2012.12.24 13:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Okay, here are a few quick rebuttals to people who are against this idea:
"Pirates should deal with the consequences of their actions, they CHOSE to be pirates"
And mission runners chose to run missions, but that doesn't mean that every rat in the mission should have a longpoint and a web.
mission runners already have their consequences: working for 1 faction you broke your standings with some other 2. And when you work "too hard" for Gallente you can find yourself not so warmly welcome in Jita (for example). That was how i lost my very first Myrmidon.
Saede Riordan wrote:Piracy is already really hurting as a form of gameplay. Its hard to earn a living in lowsec, its hard to get ransoms, no one lives there so its hard to find kills and mostly what people end up doing is just running roaming gangs into either the other pirates or into factional warfare groups. What the game currently considers 'pirates' based on security status are really mostly 'small gang pvpers.' Piracy, as in, killing/ransoming helpless ships to make ISK is practically dead, just for the reason that there is no one around to pirate. The only people living in lowsec right now are there for small gang PVP. That's really all that lowsec is good for at the moment. Increasing the interlinks between regions would boost that form of gameplay by giving a way for roaming gangs to go into wider areas.
it doesn't matter. Piracy is CHOSEN BY YOU style of playing this SANDBOX game.
Should i choose to run lvl4s in T1 fitted frigate would you support my demands to CCP for making it more easy?
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Sentamon
406
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Posted - 2012.12.24 14:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Great idea!
Now let me tell you what will happen. All the pirates would be forced to join one alliance for survival and would hang around in a handful of systems in one large blob.
Be happy with what you have before you turn lowsec into nullsucks.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
256
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Posted - 2012.12.24 14:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Miner: "Stop it! I want to mine here."
Pirate: "There are consequences for your choices, ya know. Deal with it! If you don't want to interact with other players go play WoW."
...
Pirate: "I want to be a badass pirate! I don't want to interact with other players."
Miner: "No. You have to interact with other players."
Pirate: "I'm content maker here you noob! Deal with it!"
Pirate: Oops. 
Did I get this right?
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M1k3y Koontz
Blackened Skies
74
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Posted - 2012.12.24 15:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:-1
I want lowsec and highsec to be more scattered. I ******* love regions like Solitude. I do not like loops.
0.0 is one big loop
Solitude (the highsec) is great, the island effect it has is great, makes people more self sufficient (something I always support)
However, the way lowsec is baffles me, Highsec is one big loop, null is one big loop, why isn't lowsec a big loop?
CCP, Fix this please 
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
159
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Posted - 2012.12.24 15:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1 for this excellent idea. Highway robbery anyone?
It baffles me every -10 I speak has a hauling alt. As if pirates don't have sekrid bases in spaes that need to be fueled / filled / looted. I like the idea to never have to leave lowsec and still be able to move through Minmatar/Caldari/Amarr/Gallente Empire space. It would offer interesting alternatives to stuff you still need hisec access for now. I'd support any idea that would seperate -10 players from their neutral hauling alts and increases incentive for industry and research in lowsec itself. |
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