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Kancerous	Posted - 2005.06.01 19:31:00 - [1] Heyas, I've been intrigued by the megathron ship, and am thinking of training up all the gallente ship and weapon skills just to be able to fly it instead of upgrading to tempest. What are the pros/cons of Mega with rails & Tempest with arties? I know this has probably been asked before, but I've looked througha bout 7pages, and the forums dont' seem to have search button. Thanks in advance
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.06.01 19:51:00 - [2] Tempest is deadly in groups. 3-4 of them can almost instantly take down a battleship. But thier RoF is very poor compared to rails. The Mega in Sniping setup is prolly pretty close in DOT to the Tempest. the nice thing about a mega in fleet combat is that you'll live longer since not many people call megas as primary target
slothe	Posted - 2005.06.01 20:26:00 - [3] With evenly skilled players and equipment im pretty sure the tempest does better dot. but the mega looks nicer and doesnt sway :) Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public" http://www.khainestar.com/eve
laserc	Posted - 2005.06.01 20:46:00 - [4] Actually, tempest does alot less DoT then the megathron. Good for only damage per volley in numbers. Short range temp has alot less damage but can be shield tanked and gank well.
Cosh	Posted - 2005.06.01 21:16:00 - [5] Edited by: Cosh on 01/06/2005 21:17:01 Edited by: Cosh on 01/06/2005 21:16:26 Tempest will if you skill up good for it do more damage than the megathron. If megathron and tempest pilot has same amount of gunnery skills, the megathron will do 6% more damage when they both hit lvl 4 bs, and the tempest will have 5% more damage at lvl 5 bs. This is if you fit 6 neutron cannons on your megathron and tempest fits 6 800mm's, if u fit 7 neutrons you will in megathron at lvl 5 bs do around 11.66666% more damage. Cosh
Acwron	Posted - 2005.06.01 21:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Acwron on 01/06/2005 21:21:23 Originally by: laserc Actually, tempest does alot less DoT then the megathron. Good for only damage per volley in numbers. Short range temp has alot less damage but can be shield tanked and gank well. actually a megathorn pilot with the same amount of skillpoints outdamages a tempest pilot with ease. Burst dmg is lower but still quite high. The megathorn is the most damaging when using fleet setups (lowslots=dmgmods).
kamikaze5	Posted - 2005.06.01 21:26:00 - [7] Edited by: kamikaze5 on 01/06/2005 21:27:08 Click me
Selim	Posted - 2005.06.01 21:26:00 - [8] Megathron outdamages tempest long range and short, it can hit further, has more drones, is MUCH easier to fit etc. About the only downside is the tempest does more damage in the first shots, but thats only with artillery, autocannons do pathetic first-shot damage, the worst in the game. Oh and the megathron is ugly as hell. Even though the megathron is pretty much better than the tempest for just about everything, I'd pick a tempest because it looks better. Seeing as though you're minmatar you probably have relatively decent gunnery skills and the minmatar skills are all trained up. So Id say in your case go for the tempest, its not bad. Although if you are really into killing npc's I'd go with gallente and get a dominix, its the best npc ship.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.06.01 22:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Selim Megathron outdamages tempest long range and short, it can hit further, has more drones, is MUCH easier to fit etc. About the only downside is the tempest does more damage in the first shots, but thats only with artillery, autocannons do pathetic first-shot damage, the worst in the game. Oh and the megathron is ugly as hell. Even though the megathron is pretty much better than the tempest for just about everything, I'd pick a tempest because it looks better. Seeing as though you're minmatar you probably have relatively decent gunnery skills and the minmatar skills are all trained up. So Id say in your case go for the tempest, its not bad. Although if you are really into killing npc's I'd go with gallente and get a dominix, its the best npc ship. Um yes... that is pretty much not true. Don't forget that tempest has EMP ammo. It makes quite the difference. And most dmging ship is arma, not mega.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2005.06.01 22:47:00 - [10] Megathron's clearly look cooler. Megathrons do way more damage over time. In small groups I think megathrons are your best choice. For 1v1's tempests have a few advantages over mega's. For large groups Tempest's seem to do better because of the burst damage.

Twin blade	Posted - 2005.06.01 23:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Megathron's clearly look cooler. Megathrons do way more damage over time. In small groups I think megathrons are your best choice. For 1v1's tempests have a few advantages over mega's. For large groups Tempest's seem to do better because of the burst damage. For a feel battle temp's are better due to the insane bust damage they can do 2 or 3 temps on 1 BS will most likey take it out on the first volly 3 mega's will not do that.
laserc	Posted - 2005.06.02 00:31:00 - [12] Edited by: laserc on 02/06/2005 00:36:30 Originally by: Acwron Edited by: Acwron on 01/06/2005 21:21:23 Originally by: laserc Actually, tempest does alot less DoT then the megathron. Good for only damage per volley in numbers. Short range temp has alot less damage but can be shield tanked and gank well. actually a megathorn pilot with the same amount of skillpoints outdamages a tempest pilot with ease. Burst dmg is lower but still quite high. The megathorn is the most damaging when using fleet setups (lowslots=dmgmods). Is that not what I said? EDIT: Did you qoute the wrong person?
Kancerous	Posted - 2005.06.02 04:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Kancerous on 02/06/2005 04:34:50 dammit seems like a toss up still, I guess I'll just have to try both. Thanks for that link kamikaze
Axel	Posted - 2005.06.02 06:41:00 - [14] Some peeps in the thread already said it, megathron does better dot. And the tempest can gank and tank, and thats the winning formula these days in very small fights. PS Selim, no way i can fit my megathron easy, got no cpu to have any good tank/damage setup. Movies
Lorth	Posted - 2005.06.02 07:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Megathron's clearly look cooler. Megathrons do way more damage over time. In small groups I think megathrons are your best choice. For 1v1's tempests have a few advantages over mega's. For large groups Tempest's seem to do better because of the burst damage. Yep thats pretty much it. Though a few things if I may. The mega is much harder to fit then the tempest (regardless of what selim says) which means your going to be fusterated untill you get most of your fitting skill to 5, and a CPU implant. Even then your still going to hate the fitting screen. The tempest IMO, requires more skill to be as effective as the mega. Since it has 2 damage bonuses you'll be missing out on a lot of damage having the BS skill trained only to 4. About ~13% of your damage is tied up in training a skill that will take a mounth or so, which isn't the case with the mega. The tempest almost needs BS 5, but its a luxury for the mega.
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2005.06.02 09:11:00 - [16] TBH I Fly a megathron with my main and always will, but i do suffer a certain amount of midslot envy, which is why my 2nd account is training Minmatar....The more i fiddle with tracking disruptors and target painters, the more i wish i had more midslots. I don't really suffer fitting issues on the mega but i'm fortunate to have maxed fitting skills. This thread is a reassuring example of how balanced the turret BS are atm. ....
wappy	Posted - 2005.06.02 09:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Fi T'Zeh TBH I Fly a megathron with my main and always will, but i do suffer a certain amount of midslot envy, which is why my 2nd account is training Minmatar....The more i fiddle with tracking disruptors and target painters, the more i wish i had more midslots. I don't really suffer fitting issues on the mega but i'm fortunate to have maxed fitting skills. This thread is a reassuring example of how balanced the turret BS are atm. now for more midslots with gal ships the dominix might be worth looking at.
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.02 10:18:00 - [18] Originally by: LUKEC Um yes... that is pretty much not true. Don't forget that tempest has EMP ammo. It makes quite the difference. And most dmging ship is arma, not mega. Not quite.. the most damaging ship with long range guns and fleet fitting is the Megathron. Yes, an Arma with Megapulse does more damage, but its range is too short for usual fleet engagements.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.06.02 10:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Shirei Originally by: LUKEC Um yes... that is pretty much not true. Don't forget that tempest has EMP ammo. It makes quite the difference. And most dmging ship is arma, not mega. Not quite.. the most damaging ship with long range guns and fleet fitting is the Megathron. Yes, an Arma with Megapulse does more damage, but its range is too short for usual fleet engagements. Hehe, not quite. theoretically an armageddon with megabeams > megathron with 425mm's. Ok, it wont fire forever, and wont be able to fit anything but damage mods and guns for that matter, but it's still the best fleet ganker in dot. Still, tempest ftw in fleets. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.06.02 14:27:00 - [20] The Tempest has the ability to fit a reasonable shield tank, a full rack of 1200mm 'Scouts' and a full rack of damage mods. I dunno why nobody uses 1200mm. I've gotten wrecking shots of 1200 or so and with 6x damage mods it has a good ROF. It eats Megathrons, railthrons and blasterthrons. On SiSi it must have been Megathron week one week because I killed about 15 with my Tempest. I'd call that repeatable results. Battles weren't even close either. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000

Cosh	Posted - 2005.06.02 14:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Cosh on 02/06/2005 14:44:22 Megathron does WAY better dot... megathron does way more dot... you know... I am getting sick of this! Now let's do the MATH and you shall see. 800mm Repeating Artillery I: Dmg mod : 1.925 x RoF : 5.625 Neutron Blaster Cannon I: Dmg mod : 3.5 x RoF : 7.875 3.5 x Dmg mod / 1.925 x dmg mod = (1,81818181....) 81% 7.875 RoF / 5.625 RoF = (1,4) 40% So now, Neutron blaster has 81% more dmg but fires 40% slower. As I stated earlier, if you train to lvl 4 bs this is what will happen. 3.5x X 1.2 = 4.2x 1.925x X 1.2 = 2.31x (still 81% more (x) dmg mod) 5.625 RoF X 0.8 = 4.5 RoF 7.875 RoF / 4.5 RoF = (1,75) 75% So when comparing two lvl 4 bs pilots, tempest and megathron, the megathron fires shots doing 81% more damage, but the tempest fires 75% faster. This changes to megathron doing 81% more damage and the tempest firing 86% faster at lvl 5 bs. So for now, tempest is doing 5% more damage. The only thing that comes into play, is that megathron has 1 more turret slot. IF the megathron lvl 5 pilot can fit all 7 Neutron cannons, he will outdamage the tempest by 16.66%(as for having 1/6 more of 100% damage), but the tempest still fires 5% faster, so it is reduced to a 11.66% extra damage on the megathron. I wouldn't call that "WAY more damage", and in these last calculations I didn't even take into account that the Tempest pilot might just fit a siege launcher in the slot the megathron pilot fits his 7th neutron blaster to reduce it further. Now as for the tempest being difficult to fit, autocannon fittings are a joy as they fit VERY easily. And for the one guy saying that short range tempest has horrible initial shots, what did you expect with a gun for me firing every 2.8 sec? When comparing 425's and 1400's, 6 vs 6 guns the tempest already outdamages the megathron at lvl 4 bs, gaining further advantage at lvl 5, IF the megathron fits a 7th 425 he won't do much more than 5, mayb at most 10% more dmg than the tempest. So calling the megathron way better for dot, pffff.... Oh and btw, is there some way to Search these forums? If there isn't, then CCP get the finger out of your arses and make one! Frustrating as hell and would spare your DB's for SO many posts. // Cosh
Fred0	Posted - 2005.06.02 14:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Fred0 on 02/06/2005 14:54:58 Tempest anyday. Because I'm a sailor at heart. It comes down to burst vs. dot. What do you want?
Fearn	Posted - 2005.06.02 15:23:00 - [23] Originally by: laserc Actually, tempest does alot less DoT then the megathron. Good for only damage per volley in numbers. Short range temp has alot less damage but can be shield tanked and gank well. not true.. i have calculated 425mm IIs vs 1400mm IIs (with antimatter and EMP as ammo) and 1400s come out as doing MORE DPS than 425mm.. then also ofcourse megathron has 7 turret slots and tempest has 6, but the difference isnt very big.. i can tell u that
Twin blade	Posted - 2005.06.02 15:27:00 - [24] If do a good volly and score 1 or 2 wrecking hits you will not only scear the hell of the mega you all so badly damage it meaning you could killed it in with in 4 vollys if its trying to snipe you back with a MWD it will close in to fast.
laserc	Posted - 2005.06.02 15:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Cosh Edited by: Cosh on 02/06/2005 14:44:22 Megathron does WAY better dot... megathron does way more dot... you know... I am getting sick of this! Now let's do the MATH and you shall see. 800mm Repeating Artillery I: Dmg mod : 1.925 x RoF : 5.625 Neutron Blaster Cannon I: Dmg mod : 3.5 x RoF : 7.875 3.5 x Dmg mod / 1.925 x dmg mod = (1,81818181....) 81% 7.875 RoF / 5.625 RoF = (1,4) 40% So now, Neutron blaster has 81% more dmg but fires 40% slower. As I stated earlier, if you train to lvl 4 bs this is what will happen. 3.5x X 1.2 = 4.2x 1.925x X 1.2 = 2.31x (still 81% more (x) dmg mod) 5.625 RoF X 0.8 = 4.5 RoF 7.875 RoF / 4.5 RoF = (1,75) 75% So when comparing two lvl 4 bs pilots, tempest and megathron, the megathron fires shots doing 81% more damage, but the tempest fires 75% faster. This changes to megathron doing 81% more damage and the tempest firing 86% faster at lvl 5 bs. So for now, tempest is doing 5% more damage. The only thing that comes into play, is that megathron has 1 more turret slot. IF the megathron lvl 5 pilot can fit all 7 Neutron cannons, he will outdamage the tempest by 16.66%(as for having 1/6 more of 100% damage), but the tempest still fires 5% faster, so it is reduced to a 11.66% extra damage on the megathron. I wouldn't call that "WAY more damage", and in these last calculations I didn't even take into account that the Tempest pilot might just fit a siege launcher in the slot the megathron pilot fits his 7th neutron blaster to reduce it further. Now as for the tempest being difficult to fit, autocannon fittings are a joy as they fit VERY easily. And for the one guy saying that short range tempest has horrible initial shots, what did you expect with a gun for me firing every 2.8 sec? When comparing 425's and 1400's, 6 vs 6 guns the tempest already outdamages the megathron at lvl 4 bs, gaining further advantage at lvl 5, IF the megathron fits a 7th 425 he won't do much more than 5, mayb at most 10% more dmg than the tempest. So calling the megathron way better for dot, pffff.... Oh and btw, is there some way to Search these forums? If there isn't, then CCP get the finger out of your arses and make one! Frustrating as hell and would spare your DB's for SO many posts. // Cosh Consider the ammount of dmg mods.
Sally	Posted - 2005.06.02 15:35:00 - [26] Edited by: Sally on 02/06/2005 15:37:28 Your computing is not very good. Thats the real picture: 800mm AC: 1.925 / 5.63 = 0.342 Neutron Blaster 1: 3.5 / 7.88 = 0.444 Ship bonuses lvl 5: Tempest: x1.66 = 0.5676 Megathron x1.25= 0.5552 Mega have 7 guns, Tempest - 6. Mega have 1 more damage mod - +10% DPS. Mega have 48 dmg ammo, tempest - 44. Result: Tempest - 0.5676644=149.8 Megathron- 0.5552748*1.1=205.2 205.2 /149.8 = 1.37. So Mega do about 37% more damage in close range setup. Only problem is lower falloff. The damage advantage of Mega is even more pronounced for lower lvl BS training. -- Stories: #1 --
laserc	Posted - 2005.06.02 15:52:00 - [27] Edited by: laserc on 02/06/2005 15:54:03 Originally by: Fearn Originally by: laserc Actually, tempest does alot less DoT then the megathron. Good for only damage per volley in numbers. Short range temp has alot less damage but can be shield tanked and gank well. not true.. i have calculated 425mm IIs vs 1400mm IIs (with antimatter and EMP as ammo) and 1400s come out as doing MORE DPS than 425mm.. then also ofcourse megathron has 7 turret slots and tempest has 6, but the difference isnt very big.. i can tell u that Ugh, here we go again.... Assume maxed skills: Megathron with 7 425 IIs + 7 dmg mods = ((10.3748)/4.37) 7 = 797.3 Tempest with 6 1400mm IIs and 5 dmg mods = ((19.7944)/8.8) 6 = 593.7 EDIT: Put 48 for temp ammo by accident.
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.06.02 16:26:00 - [28] Edited by: Muad ''dib on 02/06/2005 17:14:09 Just cos i havnt seen any attention to the dmg the ammos will do i thought id add this info to the debate.... shield tank on Temp: EM/50 HEAT/60 KIN/70 EXP/60 Armor tank on Temp: HEAT/67.5 KIN/62.5 EXP/55 EM/70 Megas antimatter rounds doing: 28 KIN and 20 HEAT Mega antimatter on tempests Shield tank per shot: 8.4 KIN and 8 HEAT = 16.4 dmg Mega antimatter on tempests Armor tank per shot: 10.7 KIN and 6.5 HEAT = 17.2 dmg shield tank on Mega: EM/50 HEAT/60 KIN/70 EXP/60 Armor tank on Mega: HEAT/67.5 KIN/67.5 EXP/55 EM/60 Tempests EMP rounds doing: 20 EM, 16 EXP and 8 KIN Tempests EMP on Megas Shield tank per shot: 10 EM, 9.6 EXP and 2.4 KIN = 22 dmg Tempests EMP on Megas Armor tank per shot: 8 EM, 7.2 EXP and 2.6 KIN = 17.8 dmg -------- Tempests Fusion rounds doing: 32 EXP and 12 KIN Tempests Fusion on Megas Shield tank per shot: 12.8 EXP and 3.6 KIN = 16.4 dmg Tempests Fusion on Megas Armor tank per shot: 14.4 EXP and 3.9 KIN = 18.3 dmg I know the shield tank isnt that likly on either ship, but its there for a rough comparason. The hardeners used were emp heat and kin for shields, and heat kin and exp for armor, just the normal 50% active ones. I just wondered if the ammo types would make much difference to the total outcome of DPS on a tank, but it seams emp and antimatter are very very close. A very slight difference of 1 dmg between antimatter and fusion on armor only, stangly they do exactly the same dmg per round to hardened shields I thought the dmg types delt would be enough to put the tempest ahead, but not a chance Muad 'dib -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- /\|\. '/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You
Fred0	Posted - 2005.06.02 17:45:00 - [29] There used to be a shinra guy who did these calculations convincingly in another thread about highest dot ever. Anyone with the url?
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.06.02 18:09:00 - [30] End this discussion already. 425mm's on mega with high skills > 1400's on tempest with high skills. Take into account 7 turrets versus 6 for the same fitting issues and voila: mega > tempest in dot. However, burst damage ftw in any situation that numbers 5v5 or higher in BS count. 5 top skilled tempest in gankmode take out any single BS in gankmode in one volley. Add target painters, tracking disruptors, tracking computers, and whatever else what you can come up with and the situation ends up depending on who locks whom first and does what to which ship at what range with what speed etc. etc. etc. All in all, I like my mega, others like their tempest, they are as balanced as they can be. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.



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