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how are the new destroyers?

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Vrexstus Mercana Caldari Provisions Caldari State 19	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:27:00 - [1] - Quote thinking about getting a corax for mission running are they worth anything i know the corm isnt really popular
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 891	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:33:00 - [2] - Quote Vrexstus Mercana wrote: thinking about getting a corax for mission running are they worth anything i know the corm isnt really popular Paper tigers. The Minmatar one is great for low end DED and COSMOS tag-wh0ring, but aside from that... Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!"
Vrexstus Mercana Caldari Provisions Caldari State 19	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:34:00 - [3] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: thinking about getting a corax for mission running are they worth anything i know the corm isnt really popular Paper tigers. The Minmatar one is great for low end DED and COSMOS tag-wh0ring, but aside from that... paper tigers?
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 7	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:36:00 - [4] - Quote Vrexstus Mercana wrote: paper tigers? Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :) There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Vrexstus Mercana Caldari Provisions Caldari State 19	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:45:00 - [5] - Quote Debora Tsung wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: paper tigers? Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :) so im basically trolled by looks and not power? holy fk
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 891	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:47:00 - [6] - Quote Vrexstus Mercana wrote: Debora Tsung wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: paper tigers? Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :) so im basically trolled by looks and not power? holy fk Power means crap if it's too weak to tank worth a damn. That is what "paper tiger" means. Every hear of "glass jaw" in a boxer? Same diff. Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!"
Vrexstus Mercana Caldari Provisions Caldari State 19	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:49:00 - [7] - Quote and here i was thinking that the ywould be worth something o well
Etherealclams Clams ate my Narwhal 219	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:54:00 - [8] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: Debora Tsung wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: paper tigers? Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :) so im basically trolled by looks and not power? holy fk Power means crap if it's too weak to tank worth a damn. That is what "paper tiger" means. Every hear of "glass jaw" in a boxer? Same diff. The term usually used is glass cannon. (a¦á_a¦â) -á(GîÉGûá_Gûá) (a¦á_a¦á) GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 2964	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:56:00 - [9] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: Debora Tsung wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: paper tigers? Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :) so im basically trolled by looks and not power? holy fk Power means crap if it's too weak to tank worth a damn. That is what "paper tiger" means. Every hear of "glass jaw" in a boxer? Same diff. Destroyers as a class have always been all about offense instead of defense, so yes they are not really geared towards mission running. Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability. This is why most reputable martial arts disciplines require a certain amount of full contact sparring or tournament activity in addition to demonstrations of form and technique via perfect execution of a Kata. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
fukier RISE of LEGION 356	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:56:00 - [10] - Quote Vrexstus Mercana wrote: and here i was thinking that the ywould be worth something o well they are its called pvp... combat frigs are your pve ships of choice... due to good dps and great tanks... well for lower missions... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.

Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 24	Posted - 2012.12.27 16:56:00 - [11] - Quote Can't say that I agree ... I've tanked 185K bounty BCs in 0.2 sec with my Algos and "only" an EANM and a SAR, while orbiting at 15 kms ... And I've done a whole bunch of L2 missions in my Corax against Cruisers, with 2 passive hardeners and a small Shield Booster, without problems ... the key is Light Missile Launchers and range there. Yes, they're not heavy tankers. But they pack a very reasonable punch for such a small hull, and I think you'll be fine using a Corax for L2 missions, provided you know what you're doing.
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 891	Posted - 2012.12.27 17:24:00 - [12] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability. I've never heard of it refered to like that. Check wikipedia if you're looking for a correct analogy. Basically, all bark, no bite. Irrespective of local definitions, like the Tier 3 BCs, it's purpose is not in something like missions, it's meant for a very specific role. Don't expect it to last long when getting shot at by another pilot (flying under the tracking of an NPC battlecruiser really doesn't count). Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!"
Jenavee De'amore Perkone Caldari State 97	Posted - 2012.12.27 17:35:00 - [13] - Quote I used the Corax to complete Level 2 missions when I started with a new faction mission agent. It was more just the novelty of using the new tier 3 destroyer than anything else why I used it but it seemed to sail through the missions easily enough. DPS output is decent, but like previous posters mentioned it is a glass cannon. I'll contract you one a across so you can make up your mind yourself :) Jena o/ Try to look unimportant; they may be low on ammo....
Scrofulous Vermin Corsair Cartel 14	Posted - 2012.12.27 18:44:00 - [14] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability. The prase is significantly older than that, though the usage you describe would be in keeping with the original meaning. In China, the phrase is so ancient that its origins cannot easily be traced. "Outwardly a tiger, it is made of paper, unable to withstand the wind and the rain." ~ Mao Zedong Edit: Oh, and in regards to the Corax: With the right skills, I've seen volleys north of 1400, and that's not exactly a mild sneeze. 'Glass cannon' seems appropriate.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 2973	Posted - 2012.12.27 18:49:00 - [15] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability. I've never heard of it refered to like that. Check wikipedia if you're looking for a correct analogy. Basically, all bark, no bite. Irrespective of local definitions, like the Tier 3 BCs, it's purpose is not in something like missions, it's meant for a very specific role. Don't expect it to last long when getting shot at by another pilot (flying under the tracking of an NPC battlecruiser really doesn't count). Wikipedia only goes so far as to point out it's Chinese origins, I was attempting to give a bit of insight on it's more common usage and meaning. You are quite correct though, aside from missions where kiting tactics are viable, they really aren't ideal mission running vessels. If it's a mission that can be completed by a Stealth Bomber without a cloak, then it's a mission you can attempt reasonably well in a Destroyer. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Mike Adoulin Trans-Aerospace Industries 92	Posted - 2012.12.27 19:00:00 - [16] - Quote As noted, they are long on offense and mild on defense. After the fix, they now do real well at popping frigs (and Catalysts are now one of the premium gankships of choice). You can sail thru most L1 missions in them, and even alot of the L2's, providing that you kite the mission; if you warp into alot of NPC rats, you are probably gonna die. I did many L2's in my railfit Catalyst, and the new Corax and Algos can kite very well too. The Corax, in fact, is a motherfracking BEAST. The Cormorant isn't bad either, now that it has multiple low slots. But yeah, eventually you are going to have to get a cruiser to run those L2's. Eventually.
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 259	Posted - 2012.12.27 19:02:00 - [17] - Quote The new destroyers are fine. How are you? If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.
Vrexstus Mercana Caldari Provisions Caldari State 24	Posted - 2012.12.28 00:56:00 - [18] - Quote ive still got 11 days fpr a manticore oh the waiting lol.
Sir Diablos The Plebian Republic 5	Posted - 2012.12.28 01:24:00 - [19] - Quote New. The devil is in the details...
Mars Theran Pod Kings 1531	Posted - 2012.12.28 01:29:00 - [20] - Quote I like them personally, and they tank better than suggested here. They're still a Destroyer after all. Maybe it's just because no ones had the chance to EFT them yet. I haven't tried the Amarr design, but the Algos, Corax, and Talwar are all very interesting. Algos active tanks fairly well, Corax should get a decent buffer shield tank, and the Talwar of course has the MWD sig penlty reduction so it can speed tank nicely. I still have to test it in a real sit., but I'm impressed with what I've seen so far. Except for the Talwar, these aren't really PvP ships. Even the Talwar is iffy when it comes to that. But, they can be used as PvP ships, provided they are fit right and you don't expect to run into any heavies. I think they should be great for your usual Faction Warfare games, and possibly in RvB and similar situations where you're only really expecting T1 Frigates, Dessies, and Cruisers. Anything more than that and I think you'll be in for more of a fight than you are really looking for. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub

Xtreem Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 82	Posted - 2012.12.28 01:34:00 - [21] - Quote Honestly i just thought them a gimmick, however they are mighty fun in groups!
Lady Katherine Devonshire Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps 105	Posted - 2012.12.28 04:25:00 - [22] - Quote Corax High: 7 x Rocket Launchers Medium: 1 x EM Ward Amplifier, 1 x Thermic Dissipation Amplifier, 2 x Medium Shield Extender Low: 1 x Micro Auxiliary Power Core, 1 x Power Diagnostic System Have someone with level 5 rig skills install 3 small shield rigs. I would suggest either Screen Reinforcers (even more resist) or Defense Field Purgers (even more shield regeneration). It is not fast and the range is short, however in PvE it is impressive in that it's shield alone can withstand nearly any amount of incoming fire that L1 or L2 mission rats can ever hope to dish out. From a position of invulnerability, eventual victory is assured. EvE Forum Bingo
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1207	Posted - 2012.12.28 04:41:00 - [23] - Quote So far they seem to be coming off as pretty crappy. They don't seem well thought out. I'd have rather seen a new T2 destroyer hull used in some form of blackops gang. Maybe the covert repper everyone wants so bad.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 2067	Posted - 2012.12.28 05:20:00 - [24] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: Debora Tsung wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: paper tigers? Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :) so im basically trolled by looks and not power? holy fk Power means crap if it's too weak to tank worth a damn. That is what "paper tiger" means. Every hear of "glass jaw" in a boxer? Same diff. But hasn't this always been the way with destroyers? I can keep a Tiffany lamp in a paintball match together longer than I can keep a destroyer in one piece. I have one lolfit thrasher that I managed to shoehorn a Heavy Missile Launcher onto and it's a decent frigate and cruiser wrecker but even NPC drones can peel it like a banana. Tanking a destroyer is something I stopped trying to do years ago. If the Target Lock Breaker could fit on them, it would have a chance, or perhaps some AOE ewar but actually taking hits - fuggetaboutit.
Air Bermesiah The Destined 0	Posted - 2013.03.02 08:00:00 - [25] - Quote blink i dont see how anyone can badmouth these new destroyers. Heck, ive pushed an algos above 500DPS easily. with a stable AB. You dont really need tank because small ships should never expect to tank. ever. its stupid to try to tank in a small ship unless its speed tank. or a vengeance. in any case, The algos and corax are amazing. I honestly have been afraid theyd nerf my algos. I was playing around with and accidentally popped my friends ship because my DPS was just that high. cant go wrong with t2 blasters and t2 drones ;D Its not a strategic cruiser or a drake (a statement which no longer holds any merit since they flogged drakes with a dead raccoon and then violated it mercilessly, i mean the OLD drake), but for small scale missions and PvP roams, its actually pretty darn awesome, and cheap to boot
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 984	Posted - 2013.03.02 10:41:00 - [26] - Quote Well, I looked for a versatile small ship to do the Sisters Epic Arc and got me a Algos. Shield tank, lasers, drones, the way I like my Gallente ship. Worked wonderfully. Agile enough to not make all the jumps a drag, fast enough to kite the bigger rats and with Aurora and a Garde II it even has long range capability to snipe everything on warp in. And the shield buffer lasts long enough to destroy everything. But beyond that specific purpose, dunno, maybe cosmic anomaly ratting in highsec when you put a core launcher on it. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008.
Whitehound 1070	Posted - 2013.03.02 11:31:00 - [27] - Quote The Algos is powerful and fast for doing level 1, 2 and even many level 3 missions. However, I lost one while pushing it too far in an L3 Blockade (Serpentis) where it got hammered by BCs. Still, it is a competent ship with enough room for 3x Hobgoblin II, 2x Hammerhead IIs and 5 salvage drones. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sofia Wolf Ministry of War Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2013.03.02 14:00:00 - [28] - Quote Talwar seems to work fine.
Varesk Origin. Black Legion. 322	Posted - 2013.03.02 15:42:00 - [29] - Quote Talwars own. As seen by this amazing video from Ron Mexxico best Mexxico. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxthEHr5XdU
Jon Joringer Zero-K 17	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:29:00 - [30] - Quote I've had some good fun in the Talwar. Can tear frigates up (obviously) and most other destroyers I've come across, too. Plus, rocket spam is cool looking. And it's a lot of fun in level two missions. volley, pop. volley, pop. volley, pop. etc.

Jensaro Koraka Hidden Squid Society 8	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:33:00 - [31] - Quote Debora Tsung wrote: Vrexstus Mercana wrote: paper tigers? Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :) It basically means the same thing as glass cannons. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken
Shamus O'Reilly Gungnirs' Point I Know Right 92	Posted - 2013.03.02 21:42:00 - [32] - Quote I fly the Talwar alot during small gang roams. It's a wonderful support boat. orbit at disruptor range and hold something. Thing's made of paper though. i'd never use it in a 1v1. I've seen rocket builds hold up vs frigs and LML builds toss DPS and fit a TD/TP or something for small fleets Most of the Tier 2s work well in small gangs. Outside of that? i haven't really found a use for them Mission running? god no... "I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Deep Navigation Spack Force 5 0	Posted - 2013.03.03 00:32:00 - [33] - Quote They are great, but definitely more pvp orientated. The Dragoon and Algos are drone boats and as such need good skills to be awesome. They're not low sp L2 mish runner friendly. The Corax has great alpha for a missile boat and the Talwar is a slippery fish. On the whole, their strengths suit small gang/fleet pvp the best. Personally for pve, I'd stick with the old dessys.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 1113	Posted - 2013.03.03 00:41:00 - [34] - Quote They're destroyers. They don't have anything like the EHP they need to be anything other than throwaway glass cannons, or faction warfare gimp boats that work because nothing else on the field is bigger than it. If you're actually in a vaguely substantial fleet cruisers are still better anti-frigate ships.
Shamus O'Reilly Gungnirs' Point I Know Right 92	Posted - 2013.03.03 00:53:00 - [35] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: They're destroyers. They don't have anything like the EHP they need to be anything other than throwaway glass cannons, or faction warfare gimp boats that work because nothing else on the field is bigger than it. If you're actually in a vaguely substantial fleet cruisers are still better anti-frigate ships. <--- proud use of a Talwar to kill a myrmidon and force a second to jump. Fleet was 2 talwars, 1 caracal, 1 incursus, (and gateguns) I'm suggesting just think outside of the box with them. They're plain and simple very viable cheap support role ships in fleets. And apparently can roam in fleets of their own as in the videos above "I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Eurydia Vespasian Nova Insula Mining and Industrial The STAR Alliance 1455	Posted - 2013.03.03 01:04:00 - [36] - Quote i like the algos. it's a handy little ship.
ashley Eoner 173	Posted - 2013.03.03 02:18:00 - [37] - Quote The corax does level 2 missions quite well. The algos can do solid dps if you have good drone skills. I run 3x hob IIs and 2x hammerheads IIs in my algos.


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