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1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2011.10.08 00:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm glad hybrids are finally getting their time to shine but while CCP is buffing stuff, they should really take a look at Beamers. I'm not talking about Large Beam Lasers, thoughs are fine but Medium and Small ones. Their PG requirements are insanely high, I mean you almost never see a it with Small or Medium Beamers.
Would be nice to have those looked at...
5 Days In A Week... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Hemispheres On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!! |
Allzat
Nitrogen Narcosis.
4
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Posted - 2011.10.08 01:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. They are fine. Move along now.........
-Allzat- |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
125
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Posted - 2011.10.08 01:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
lasers do need a small buff. but hybrids need much more. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
239
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Posted - 2011.10.08 02:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Boost 1400mm artillery cannons!1 When I shoot something, the target goes flat as a pancake and vanishes to the horizon. How am I supposed to salvage with these? At least equip Tempest with pre-fitted mwd so I can get to them during same day. CCP please make this happen.
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Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
163
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Posted - 2011.10.08 02:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
This why buffing or GÇ£balancingGÇ¥ the weapon systems does really do does not really balance or fix any thing all it does is changes trends or the GÇ£flavor of the monthGÇ¥.
Before projectiles got their GÇ£buffing/balancingGÇ¥, beams were on top of the heap with hybrids coming in second and projectiles on the bottom. Then with much whining projectiles got GÇ£balancedGÇ¥ or GÇ£fixedGÇ¥ and now they are as they are now.
But before that a long, long, long time ago long before most of you were even nubs. Lasers use to be the weak link and after much complaining they got some CCP love along with Amarr ships.
Somewhere around that time, there was an HP buff to ships because CCP thought they were being blown up to fast. (I am looking at you Snipping Arty Tempest) and so not only did CCP give Lasers some love they knocked projectiles down to GÇ£lol, you have to use projectiles statusGÇ¥ but was cool because we could still nano.
But peeps complained, and so CCP saw fit to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ or GÇ£balanceGÇ¥ such. Still left projectiles on the bottom of the totem pole but hybrid started to show some flaws mostly because of how the Gal need to be in your face to fight.
So now we are back to a couple of years ago when the constructive complaints from the projectile users got CCPs attention enough for them to decide to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ them. And the resolute was a nice bump to people wanting projectiles in their fleets instead of banning them from their fleets.
But in the process hybrids were bumped to the bottom of the totem pole. So now after a couple of years of telling CCP they the hybrid users are not happy. It seems hybrids will get a GÇ£fix or GÇ£balanceGÇ¥.
And I predict lasers users will start to show that they are not happy. And we can start the cycle all over again. Because someone has to be on the bottom of the totem pole, and there is no such thing as really GÇ£balancingGÇ¥ such things. Just shuffling where you are on the totem pole. |
Cherry Nobyl
Shadow Strike Syndicate
5
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Posted - 2011.10.08 06:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Epiphaniess wrote:..... and there is no such thing as really GÇ£balancingGÇ¥ such things. Just shuffling where you are on the totem pole.
then we should really lay the totem pole on its side. it needs a nap. |
Abrazzar
157
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Posted - 2011.10.08 08:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Only laser that needs fixing is the Quad Light Beam Laser.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
KUGUTSUMEN.
161
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Posted - 2011.10.08 08:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Beams are fine. Lets not push it when it comes to balancing. I mean seriously it took CCP this long to even touch hybrids.
Gotta take baby steps with CCP or **** hits the fan. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
311
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Posted - 2011.10.08 08:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Epiphaniess wrote:
And I predict lasers users will start to show that they are not happy. And we can start the cycle all over again.
They rightfully would. Imho, projectiles should just be nerfed.
They have too many advantages as it is - capless, free choice of damage types, lowest fitting requirements, enormous falloff and DPS potential at their optimal, tracking on par with blasters, best effect of TEs, highest alpha when using artillery and they're typically mounted on ships that posses the advantage of dictating range, which is such a huge advantage (CCP doesn't seem to be aware of) it will always make Minmatar ships viable.
Before the buff, projectiles were fine - a primitive weapon system that made up for the disadvantage of low DPS with all the strengths mentioned above - now there's no single drawback to use them.
On a side note: I can use all subcap T2 weapon systems with maxed out support skills - never bothered with any other type of turret but projectiles since they were buffed - maybe pulses on a Zealot when the FC forced me to, but that was a long, long time ago...
So yes - OP is right - Lasers will need a buff unless projectiles get a nerf.
morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
Meeogi
Debitum Naturae
RED.Legion
3
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Posted - 2011.10.08 08:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Projectiles... are ridiculous. Large Marge above me is right. |
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
69
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Posted - 2011.10.08 09:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Only laser that needs fixing is the Quad Light Beam Laser.
medium beam laser (the small one) needs a tiny nudge too. the only frigate that can fit them is the retribution and even then it's a too tight of a fit.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Abrazzar
157
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Posted - 2011.10.08 10:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Only laser that needs fixing is the Quad Light Beam Laser. medium beam laser (the small one) needs a tiny nudge too. the only frigate that can fit them is the retribution and even then it's a too tight of a fit.
Agreed. They are somewhat hard to fit with little advantage over dual light beams.
Other than that, though, lasers are so balanced that all other weapon systems should be nerfed or boosted to be in line with lasers. Point of balancing is, after all, finding the zero point towards everything should gravitate towards and lasers are imho, almost exactly at that point.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
10
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Posted - 2011.10.08 11:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
pulse - lower range both on pulse as and scorch (yes, both)
beam - fine
AC - lower base falloff to calc for the "new" TE/TC falloff bonuses, atm it's too good
artie - fine
minmatar - the emp/thermal/expl full damage types need a rethinking, it's too good and too much
blaster - increase dps by 5%, increase base tracking by 20%, lower fitting by 5-10%
rails - increase dps of rails by 15%, lower fitting by 5-10%
gallente- turret based ships need better agility
All pirate faction ships need a rethink, they're just too good atm. They should be GOOD but not overwhelmingly so.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
69
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Posted - 2011.10.08 11:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:pulse - lower range both on pulse as and scorch (yes, both)
beam - fine
AC - lower base falloff to calc for the "new" TE/TC falloff bonuses, atm it's too good
artie - fine
minmatar - the emp/thermal/expl full damage types need a rethinking, it's too good and too much
blaster - increase dps by 5%, increase base tracking by 20%, lower fitting by 5-10%
rails - increase dps of rails by 15%, lower fitting by 5-10%
gallente- turret based ships need better agility
All pirate faction ships need a rethink, they're just too good atm. They should be GOOD but not overwhelmingly so.
or simply boost hybrids to a comparable level with proj and lasers.
problem solved?
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
10
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Posted - 2011.10.08 12:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
No, there's a difference. If every short range weapon can do about 10-20km then the whole niche racial stuff is gone.
Pulses should have good range but not as silly as it is atm, ACs have too much falloff AND have way too good damage selection, that would be ok if they had much lower dps but right now they have all 3 which just shouldn't be. If you adapt pulses and ACs then blasters can stay in their niche just fine, with a bit more tracking and less fitting issues.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
69
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Posted - 2011.10.08 12:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:No, there's a difference. If every medium short range weapon can do about 10-20km then the whole niche racial stuff is gone.
Pulses should have good range but not as silly as it is atm, ACs have too much falloff AND have way too good damage selection, that would be ok if they had much lower dps but right now they have all 3 which just shouldn't be. If you adapt pulses and ACs then blasters can stay in their niche just fine, with a bit more tracking and less fitting issues.
short-range missiles = always hit pure damage and average range, limited by target size and speed.
AC's = high flexibility, okay damage. (remember, they work on falloff mostly. their ZOMGdps numbers only happen at very tiny ranges)
pulses = mid-range high damage, which they are.
blasters = point blank T+ûTALHELLDEATH destruction and ruin, which doesn't happen because their platforms can't catch up with their targets, and their damage isn't really that amazing vs the other weapons (in comparison to pulses you're looking at weapons that do only at most 10% more raw damage but have nearly 4x less the range).
in my view, all weapons work fine, except blasters, which need much more and better damage, and more mobile platforms.
and I don't mind them being as dangerous as feathers at ranges above 10km for counterbalance, but they must be the definite and undisputed kings of damage below the 10km mark.
and no, they aren't atm.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 13:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
if you force pulse and AC boats closer in because of reduced range then Gallente's range issue becomes less of an issue, then add to that increased agility on gallente turret ships, better tracking on blasters and easier fittings meaning they can more easily fit bigger blasters while still having good tracking, effectively increasing dps and tracking on realistic fits.
And no, pulse+scorch range is NOT ok, it's too good. Just as high dps + damage type selection + huge falloff bonuses is too good on ACs. Making things easy is never the right answer, things should have limitations creating chances and niche play styles. heavy pulse + scorch should not have more than 17-18km optimal with low falloff, 425 AC with 2 TE should not have more than 20km falloff (not counting ship skills).
Pulses and ACs are highly overpowered, why is this even up for discussion? Making blasters ALSO overpowered is the wrong way to do it and only short sighted people would recommend such a thing. Bring back pulse+ac to previous levels somehat and give blasters a slight boost.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
69
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Posted - 2011.10.08 13:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:Pulses and ACs are highly overpowered, why is this even up for discussion? Making blasters ALSO overpowered is the wrong way to do it and only short sighted people would recommend such a thing. Bring back pulse+ac to previous levels somehat and give blasters a slight boost.
now wait a bit, if AC's are overpowered and pulses are overpowered, why making blasters ovepowered too is a bad thing?
if everything's overpowered doesn't that mean that they are.. .balanced?
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 13:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Vachir Khan wrote:Pulses and ACs are highly overpowered, why is this even up for discussion? Making blasters ALSO overpowered is the wrong way to do it and only short sighted people would recommend such a thing. Bring back pulse+ac to previous levels somehat and give blasters a slight boost. now wait a bit, if AC's are overpowered and pulses are overpowered, why making blasters ovepowered too is a bad thing? if everything's overpowered doesn't that mean that they are.. .balanced?
Lets make everything MOAR!
That line of thinking got us super carriers, titans, increased HP numbers on SOV related items and whatnot, I'm sure you know what I'm getting at. Balancing is more about removing unwanted/overpowered stuff than buffing "everything else".
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
327
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 13:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:
Pulses and ACs are highly overpowered, why is this even up for discussion?
Because pulses aren't - out of all shortrange weapon systems, they have the highest fitting requirements, highest cap consumption, worst damage types, worst falloff and by far the worst tracking and are fitted on slow Armortanks.
There's a reason all turret ships you see flying around are Minmatar and not Amarr (Abaddons excluded - and even they are often fit with artillery despite the oh-so uber scorch).
morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
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1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2011.10.08 13:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why not just change ship bonuses so Minmatar ships use Hybrids and Gallente Ships use Projectiles. Just solved your mobility and nerf issues 
EDITL Spelling lol
5 Days In A Week... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Hemispheres On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!! |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
KUGUTSUMEN.
165
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 13:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Its because Minmatar are pimps, and Amarr are to busy trying to look up each others robes. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
8
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Posted - 2011.10.08 14:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
No taking a crap on one weapon system or both so you blaster whiners can take a break is not solution and CCP is talking about hybrid re-balancing not nerf em all,because they certainly don't bring your whine ideas to the table of how to do this.
I don't remember anyone of you saying nerf lazors and blasters when only good maelstrom was lazor maelstrom.
Talking about nerfing falloff to AC are as same as talking about nerfing lazors optimal or blastors DPS ie ******** and butt hurt talk nothing more.
Boost hybrids or boost/change gal ship bonuses simple as that. |
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