| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Drsch
   |
Posted - 2005.06.07 16:52:00 -
[1]
I'm trying to get an idea of how bad amarr elite frigates have been hurt by the recent pulse nerfs. I've got all the gunnery skills from the pre-reqs for large pulse spec 4 and was wondering if it was even worth the 7 days training to skill up amarr frig 5 anymore. Thanks in advance for any advice.
-Dr
|
pshepherd
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 16:53:00 -
[2]
amarr assaults suck ass 
wolf's do the most damage whilst generally i think the harpy is the best
|
Dionysus Davinci
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 16:54:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 07/06/2005 16:54:30
Yes, they suck ass now because you can't orbit out 5km+ with blaster type weapons while others are forced to 1km or less range.
|
Sangxianc
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 16:57:00 -
[4]
I believe the problem is the fitting requirements of long range turrets. Medium Beam IIs cost 18pg.
-
Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
Dionysus Davinci
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 16:59:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Sangxianc
I believe the problem is the fitting requirements of long range turrets. Medium Beam IIs cost 18pg.
Yes, that is proably the only problem. Of course, fitting a MWD and Tech II netrons isn't very easy on a taranis either. If I want to use that extra hi-slot for a NOS 2 Auxilary power cores are required.
|
Stormfront
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 17:01:00 -
[6]
Retribution can still kill almost any other assault... it can also tank any other assault for huge amounts of time. However, to kill one you still need to use that mid slot to scramble (which really does gimp your options). Also the wolf and jag can tank your dmg without too many issues. Against them you might need alternatives.. some nos and such.
Vengeance is a good ship and a good tackler. But its not really got a role that it can do brilliantly. Other ships are just designed better.
|
DrunkenOne
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 17:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: pshepherd
amarr assaults suck ass
wolf's do the most damage whilst generally i think the harpy is the best
Um no, wolfs do the least DoT of any of the "damage" assaults.
|
Vigilant
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 17:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: pshepherd
amarr assaults suck ass
wolf's do the most damage whilst generally i think the harpy is the best
Um no, wolfs do the least DoT of any of the "damage" assaults.
They just hit really hard per volley
|
Sangxianc
|
Posted - 2005.06.07 17:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
Originally by: Sangxianc
I believe the problem is the fitting requirements of long range turrets. Medium Beam IIs cost 18pg.
Yes, that is proably the only problem. Of course, fitting a MWD and Tech II netrons isn't very easy on a taranis either. If I want to use that extra hi-slot for a NOS 2 Auxilary power cores are required.
Firstly, a Taranis is an Interceptor. Not an Assault Ship. It's not designed to fit a full rack of the largest guns. Secondly, there's no middle option in the Beam lasers, like the 125mm Railgun (which I can fit 4 of alongside a T2 MWD and T2 armour rep on an Enyo with no PG enhancers). So they either get crappy damage or horrible fittings.
For example, a Retribution has 56pg, 70 with Engineering 5. 4 Medium Beam IIs uses 72 grid. It can't even fit a full rack without any PG boosters, not including the MWD and nos included in your inane example. Let's say this pilot wants to fit a regular, 1mn AB and a Repairer II. That's 91pg with a T1 AB: you'd need 2 MAPCs to fit that.
Meaning that they'd have to use a Dual Light Beam. And they're icky.
-
Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee. |
TuRtLe HeAd
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 09:33:00 -
[10]
Rather have a Crusader than any caldari ceptor. Its built for survivability with 4 low slots and Very good armour for a ceptor. Personally I Take the Claw because its just the most Fun ship In Eve. It Chomps through Ammo in No Time.
As I see it I'm torn 50/50 as to whether they're worth it or not though.
U got the Covert ops ship which is Pants, The Stealth Bomber which is ugly, an Assualt frig with 1 Midslot (Yet it still reigns Hot laser death on most other Ass frigs) Then U have 2 of the best interceptors in game, Malediction is awesome now its go the missile bays. And the Crusader Has and always will be a great ceptor. You can talk about your laser nerfs all you want, in my honest opinion the Balance has been for the better and made those 2 ceptors awesome fun to play with. |
Tatsue Niko
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 09:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: LUKEC
Edited by: LUKEC on 08/06/2005 09:20:26
The only t2 amarr frig that is really good is malediction, as it will kick any other 'tackler' inty. And also crusader .
You havent met my Crusader 
But NO DONT USE IT! IT SUCKS!
USELESS!
Now cant ppl lower the price to 5 mill each?
Tatsue..
|
ELECTR0FREAK
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 10:02:00 -
[12]
My brother flies a Retribution, and that thing puts out some MEAN damage, I think around 160 per second. Yes, its lack of more than 1 mid slot makes it a lousy tackler, but its a tough cookie to ***** and can dish it out as well.
About a week ago, a pirate in a Stabber had a go at him while my bro was killing some rats in low sec. Within seconds, the poor rat was fleeing with half his armor gone. My bro warped after him, found the guy trying to nurse his wounds at a nearby planet, and proceeded to drop the fellow into structure in a couple seconds. The pirate then safespotted and logged while my bro went back to killing rats.
About 2 days ago, he had a run-in with a Caracal while with a corp mate. He destroyed the Caracal in less than 20 seconds while his buddy kept it pinned.
So yeah, that I've seen that thing in action. Almost makes me wish I hadn't trained Caldari Assault Ships.
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 10:04:00 -
[13]
I really wonder what you use so special there.
|
ELECTR0FREAK
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 10:37:00 -
[14]
did I mention he fits med pulse laser IIs? I think that was the whole point of this thread, proving that pulse lasers haven't hurt Amarr elite ships as bad as everyone seems to think.
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 11:07:00 -
[15]
till some crow gets you and orbits you at 24k with faction disruptor... byby then. I doubt he can break your tank but...
|
keepiru
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 11:08:00 -
[16]
Yes, too bad you cant fit beams worth damn, that hasnt changed. You can make ppl run away, whop-ty doo.
Bottom line: until beams have fitting reduced, amarr afs arent worth training for if youre going to pvp.
-------------
Originally by: Gnauton
It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
|
DrunkenOne
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 17:07:00 -
[17]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 08/06/2005 17:07:56
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Want beams on your retribution? Fit a powercore, kinda like Harpy users do to fit 150mm II. And Enyo users have to do if they really want those 150mm rails guns. Btw, missile launcher powergrid increments are going to hit non-amarr elite frigs pretty hard, so your fix is coming.
Um I dont know any people who fly a harpy with a micro aux... And a wolf uses the same amount of launchers as a harpy
|
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 17:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
K so then you have 3 lows left, which is (omg) the same amount of lows a wolf has when mounting 280 IIs, since it needs a mapc as well  .
I suppose that ******* 2nd midslot means nothing right?
Good ****.
________________________________________________________
|
Nomen Nescio
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 17:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Apoll
Please englight me because is very interesting idea since you have no cap activation, and the range is better than the lasers but need 2nd opinion. :)
You want an interesting idea? Look at the 200mm autocanons II dps, then LOOK AT THE FITTING, then look at dps again. Then fit ret with 4 of them, 3 gyro II, mwd, then LOOK AT YOUR GRID and add friking 400mm plate and small rep. Concidering that 400mm plate will more then double your armor HP after the patch.
Then, THEN look at you 4x200mm with 3 gyros DPS. Can you imagine the joy of fussion comming out of these things?
You need a balls though to use all this. Because 99% of normal people will go "omg, omg, some1 will just web me and I'm gone, whee whee whee".
You need bravery for "interesting" setups, everything else is just plain standard, even if you go OMG against your ships bonuses with some imported guns
|
Julien Derida
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 18:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Sure you can. Of course you're gonna have an empty midslot, since with maxed skills and the lowest cpu web/scrambler this is going to take 198,5 cpu out of 187,5.
And obviously you will be out of cap after shooting twice, so yeah, looks like a great idea. Get a clue.
It fits perfectly with double web actually. Think outside the box a bit for once. The cap also holds perfectly well. Perhaps your running your MWD for too long? It's not a general purpose setup admittedly, but it certainly has it's uses.
Besides, whether it is a good setup or not is irrelevant. It is the fact that it's possible to fit it at all that we are discussing.
Quote:
Replace a damage mod for a cap relay? Sure, just ditch the power core and fit ions, since ions + damage mod > neutrons without.
I find the extra falloff of the Neutrons far more valuable that the slight theoretical DoT advantage that the Ions give.
Quote:
Want beams on your retribution? Fit a powercore, kinda like Harpy users do to fit 150mm II. And Enyo users have to do if they really want those 150mm rails guns. Btw, missile launcher powergrid increments are going to hit non-amarr elite frigs pretty hard, so your fix is coming.
Have you ignored the rest of the thread? The Harpy, Enyo and Wolf can fit their biggest guns without any grid mods. They may need a grid mod to fit the rest of their setup, but that is beside the point. The Retribution needs a MAPC to fit only the guns, and another MAPC if it wants to run an AB. That is clearly not balanced.
Perhaps next time you should leave the insults out of your post. It just makes you look like a fool when your wrong.
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 19:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Btw, missile launcher powergrid increments are going to hit non-amarr elite frigs pretty hard, so your fix is coming.
Do you play this game?
Khanid? Ring a bell??
Look them up some time.
________________________________________________________
|
DrunkenOne
|
Posted - 2005.06.08 19:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 08/06/2005 19:44:31
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: DrunkenOne
K so then you have 3 lows left, which is (omg) the same amount of lows a wolf has when mounting 280 IIs, since it needs a mapc as well .
I suppose that ******* 2nd midslot means nothing right?
Good ****.
<--------Pwnt  . Though at the same time, the retri has a much better tank than a wolf, even using 2 micro auxes, as it has better resists and better cap, so thats sorta balanced.
Anyways reduce beam grid reqs, and give the wolf more grid. Reduce the beam reqs instead of giving the retri/vengeance more grid, as then crusaders and maledictions can actually fit them. And give the wolf more grid instead of making 280 IIs use less grid, cause if you did that then the claw would be even more ridiculous :).
This desk job has increased my forum whoring by about 300%. God help you all. |
Stormfront
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 09:12:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Stormfront on 12/06/2005 09:17:32
Well I'll settle for 1 *****ble good amarr assault retribution(lower the grid on medium beam IIs, or add a midslot on the retri) and 1 not so great amarr assault Vengeance remain unchanged.
Apparently the word fit and able together are bleeped out by the forums.. fit table some kind of cuss word in some non-English language?
|
Cecil Montague
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 11:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mortuus
Perhaps people should look more at how ships work in teams?
You said it. What the retribution really needs isn't a fix it's a friend in a maladiction or crusader.
I have yet to escape with my ship from a good inty/AF pairing. And before you ask i don't fly battleships. I can fly one i just can't afford one or have the skills to fit it properly
"There is no such thing as an effective segment of totality." - Bruce Lee |
Alberta
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 14:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Julien Derida
Edited by: Julien Derida on 07/06/2005 19:47:48
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
Yes, that is proably the only problem. Of course, fitting a MWD and Tech II netrons isn't very easy on a taranis either. If I want to use that extra hi-slot for a NOS 2 Auxilary power cores are required.
A Taranis can fit 3 T2 Neutrons + MWD, and still have enough CPU left over for 2 damage mods. Thats not what I'd call hard fitting.
On the other hand, it is impossible to fit Medium Pulse IIs on a Crusader without a super expensive named MAPC. Even with DLP IIs, you only have enough CPU for 1 damage mod. That is hard fitting.
Not quite impossible to fit Med Pulse II on the Crusader using stock MAPC. It's a very hard fit though and I'm far from convinced it's going to be powerful. Haven't actually got round to testing its capabilities yet.
My Thoughts on Game Balance |
Julien Derida
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 17:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alberta
Not quite impossible to fit Med Pulse II on the Crusader using stock MAPC. It's a very hard fit though and I'm far from convinced it's going to be powerful. Haven't actually got round to testing its capabilities yet.
You can't fit Med Pulse II + MWD without losing two low slots for power mods. This also leaves you with severe CPU problems depending on what you want in your second mid. You can't even squeeze a Langour in there. So maybe I should have been more specific . It's impossible to fit Medium Pulse II + MWD + Web/Scram without a named MAPC.
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Nomen Nescio
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 17:52:00 -
[27]
But you can fit Medium Pulses, mdw and 5 nanofibers on ret and have 60% more agility and plus 100m/s base speed.:) I bet you can turn on a dime with it and catch jag.
PS
Or maybe 4xneutrons II then?
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 20:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
But you can fit Medium Pulses, mdw and 5 nanofibers on ret and have 60% more agility and plus 100m/s base speed.:) I bet you can turn on a dime with it and catch jag.
PS
Or maybe 4xneutrons II then?
Well, this setup seems like putting 7 nanofibres & AB on phoon. But i guess i'd have more luck with phoon(not that i can fly one). So why don't you just STFU. If i'd by any chance want to use neutrons, enyo 4tw.
|
Domalais
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 21:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
And I would say the vengeance and jaguar are tied for the most pathetic assaults.
I can't speak for the vengeance, but the jaguar is simply wonderful. Just a tad slower than an inty, with ten times the damage absorbtion. Excellent tackler.
|
Nomen Nescio
|
Posted - 2005.06.12 21:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: LUKEC
So why don't you just STFU. If i'd by any chance want to use neutrons, enyo 4tw.
Watch you mouth, kid.
Why exactly should I stay out? If you dont like a setup, dont use it. Or you think that any1 who does not fit biggest beams and full tank can't post an opinion on forums?
What's wrong with best speed and 50% more agility then any other af together with best close range weapons fitted? Is it some kind of religion which stops you from using this? If you change 1 nano on weapon mod II you can outdamage eynoy with blasters. Not to mention that neautons II plus mwd II need 65 grid and enyo has 62. And ret has 70, which will allow you to stick neutrons, mwd II and small rep with 4 nanos.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |