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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
615
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:It doesn't make sense that bitter enemies highsec systems are next to each other. Sure it does. Why wouldn't you increase security in and fortify a system right next door to your enemy? |

Manhoris Prime
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
PLEASE Mr. Custer, I don't wanna GO!!!
There's a PVPer out THAR, waitin to take ma HAR!!!
WHY won't you let me carebear in peace?? |

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
3774
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:You are going to far IMHO. But I agree that empire highsec should be islands surrounded by lowsec. It doesn't make sense that bitter enemies highsec systems are next to each other. As a twist I would make FW have an impact by temporarily open up a highsec corridor between allies when certain FW objectives are met.
It might be better otherwise, but it certainly makes sense. You can think of it as the north/south Korean border zone. The close proximity is actually a reason for increased security presense, since both sides recognize the necessity to keep tight control of such an area and can't afford any vulnerabilities or disruptions there. |

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
44
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Lexmana wrote:You are going to far IMHO. But I agree that empire highsec should be islands surrounded by lowsec. It doesn't make sense that bitter enemies highsec systems are next to each other. As a twist I would make FW have an impact by temporarily open up a highsec corridor between allies when certain FW objectives are met. It might be better otherwise, but it certainly makes sense. You can think of it as the north/south Korean border zone. The close proximity is actually a reason for increased security presense, since both sides recognize the necessity to keep tight control of such an area and can't afford any vulnerabilities or disruptions there.
FYI: There is a 4km wide 'DMZ' between north and south Korea. aka Losec/nullsec :) Killboard |

Lexmana
812
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Lexmana wrote:It doesn't make sense that bitter enemies highsec systems are next to each other. Sure it does. Why wouldn't you increase security in and fortify a system right next door to your enemy?
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Lexmana wrote:You are going to far IMHO. But I agree that empire highsec should be islands surrounded by lowsec. It doesn't make sense that bitter enemies highsec systems are next to each other. As a twist I would make FW have an impact by temporarily open up a highsec corridor between allies when certain FW objectives are met. It might be better otherwise, but it certainly makes sense. You can think of it as the north/south Korean border zone. The close proximity is actually a reason for increased security presense, since both sides recognize the necessity to keep tight control of such an area and can't afford any vulnerabilities or disruptions there. Fair points. Though I would expect some "lower sec" between two empires such as the demilitarised zone between north/south Korea and perhaps also eastern Europe between the Russia and the western part of Europe after ww2. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1085
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Won't work. People would stay in thier "island".
Sadly, I think this is the case.
I think the map is fine as is. |

Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
615
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Fair points. Though I would expect some "lower sec" between two empires such as the demilitarised zone between north/south Korea and perhaps also eastern Europe between the Russia and the western part of Europe after ww2. We already kind of have that in the FW zones. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3252
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Some Rando wrote:Lexmana wrote:It doesn't make sense that bitter enemies highsec systems are next to each other. Sure it does. Why wouldn't you increase security in and fortify a system right next door to your enemy? Destination SkillQueue wrote:Lexmana wrote:You are going to far IMHO. But I agree that empire highsec should be islands surrounded by lowsec. It doesn't make sense that bitter enemies highsec systems are next to each other. As a twist I would make FW have an impact by temporarily open up a highsec corridor between allies when certain FW objectives are met. It might be better otherwise, but it certainly makes sense. You can think of it as the north/south Korean border zone. The close proximity is actually a reason for increased security presense, since both sides recognize the necessity to keep tight control of such an area and can't afford any vulnerabilities or disruptions there. Fair points. Though I would expect some "lower sec" between two empires such as the demilitarised zone between north/south Korea and perhaps also eastern Europe between the Russia and the western part of Europe after ww2.
No, there was no demilitarized zone between Eastern and Western Europe during the Cold War.
Just a thin 100 yard or so 'no man's land' leading up to a fence.
And it was not low sec or null sec in equivalence. It was Death sec. Only the shallow can fully know themselves. - Oscar Wilde |

Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
291
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:FYI: There is a 4km wide 'DMZ' between north and south Korea filled with mines and covered by snipers waiting to do target practice..... aka Losec/nullsec :)
How much trade is there across that DMZ, or any similar boundary land? So yes, it would be like low sec: Mostly dead, except for snipers.
If the goal is to Balkanize high sec and fill EVE with more dead low sec systems, this will work. If the goal is to give people an incentive to go into low sec, it won't work: You forgot the incentive. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3252
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
Won't work. People would stay in thier "island".
Sadly, I think this is the case. I think the map is fine as is.
Yeah...reaarange Null and THEN we shall hear their screams.
My God it would never ever stop.
......like this thread topic. Only the shallow can fully know themselves. - Oscar Wilde |
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Merouk Baas
390
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jita wasn't always in Jita, and we didn't move the trade there because of taxes. Players just like to have a convenient central place to shop, and no matter how you arrange the map lowsec or null are never going to seem "convenient."
Once we set up in Jita, CCP had to work extra-hard to support the solar system; it took them MONTHS to put it on its own server, remove the asteroid belts, remove everything that was causing lag, and try to fix it to support 1400 players. It was crashing, sometimes daily. Because we didn't care; there was a crowd that wanted to get into Jita to get their stuff and by god they got in, lag or no lag, server outage pending.
So, moving Jita to somewhere else, I would bet you that it makes CCP cringe at the idea. They'd have to do yet another dedicated node, manually clean up the new system to reduce lag, and all for what purpose? We can already shop in Jita, why make them move it? It's a lot of work for nothing.
I tell you though, if they rearrange the map we sure will move. Where it's convenient. Screw taxes, you have half the playerbase remain in the NPC corps despite tax incentives to join player corps. Do you think they care about taxes? |

Ckra Trald
Remnants of Retribution
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
I drew my own map. It accurately portrays the community
http://i.imgur.com/YN8Rf.jpg
If you fial, try again
If you flel, try again.
Try as much as you want, you'll still... faill? |

Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
369
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 20:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:The EVE universe map with respect to how hisec, losec and null interact should be redrawn to encourage.... - More players transiting losec or null - More players living or travelling to losec or null - Less incentive to stay in hisec & carebear forever - Break up the huge swaths of nullsec sov grind and allow smaller alliances to get some null The solution..... - Make hisec 4 faction pockets of smaller size - Bisect the hisec & nullsec pockets with losec pockets - Place a trade-boosted hub in each faction losec bisect (i.e. Super Jita) - Reduce mission & mineral payouts in hisec, boost them in losec and super-boost them in null The sample... http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s591/evegod/HowItShouldBe_zps1b44428b.jpg(Obviously VERY ROUGH -- but something to get people thinking...ultimately its time for a rethink of the map to resolve the issues mentioned....) Sincerely, The Dark Lord of Crux, F
Why? You state your opinion as if it were fact. Care to explain why you care how other people play the game?
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Fractal Muse
Dead's Prostitutes Test Friends Please Ignore
183
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 21:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lexmana wrote: Fair points. Though I would expect some "lower sec" between two empires such as the demilitarised zone between north/south Korea and perhaps also eastern Europe between the Russia and the western part of Europe after ww2.
The problem with a map change like this is that is done entirely outside of the player's activities.
You are suggesting that CCP turn its back on emergent gameplay and the core philosophy of EVE to force people into doing things instead of providing more game mechanics that allow for changes to happen (regardless of if the change happens there is a option there that allows for it.)
I'd rather see CCP implement a more flexible security status / control mechanic for systems. Basically, the more options that CCP gives to players to alter how the Universe is structured the better.
I would love to see faction warfare result in space being completely converted into the domain of the faction that held it and to see the security status of that held space slowly rise. So, if Minmatar forces pushed to the edge of Amarr space and held the territory for a long time (a RL month perhaps?) over that period the control influence (and security status) would solidify and the war would shift into what is currently immutable Amarr territory.
That would mean that Minmatar space would expand, the low security space would shift, and Amarr territory would contract.
Then give players the same thing in 0.0 space where they could start improving the security status of a system at the trade-off of ratting ability of that space. Basically, as players invest in one system the space becomes what it really is - secure. The higher the security the more industry options and the less ratting options would become available. Sov holders would decide how much to invest in security (the more they invest the more NPC ships representing them would spawn as violators entered the system - if those guard ships were destroyed they would have to be replaced at the sov holder's expense - this also means that enemies of the sov holders could potentially drain the ISK account of the sov holder by constant harassment of its secure space until the sov holder would either increase the amount of ISK allocated to security, ambush the invaders, or stop the bleed and stop funding security).
Anyway, that goes off on a completely different idea that could go on for pages.
|

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1499
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 21:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:Yet another belligerent undesirable attempting to force filth and lawlessness on we the True Citizens and Desirables of Eve, the High Security Players. Back to the bad lands, savage.  Nothing I proposed actually forces empire players to change, its about incentivizing transits through losec, and aquisition of sov in null -- with the ability for smaller organizations to actually aquire sov (by breaking up null) Imagine small pockets of null that aren't worth the trouble for big alliances to take, but well worth small alliances or big corps to constantly fight over....breaking up null with losec pockets will do this. This part is actually interesting. But Id suggest they be new areas, not re-draws of areas already in-play. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

cheese monkey
Peniz inc...
100
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 21:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
No, no no no , NO, no no nonono. No...
for more details see the cleaning lady in family guy. |

Lexmana
812
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 21:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Lexmana wrote: Fair points. Though I would expect some "lower sec" between two empires such as the demilitarised zone between north/south Korea and perhaps also eastern Europe between the Russia and the western part of Europe after ww2.
No, there was no demilitarized zone between Eastern and Western Europe during the Cold War. Just a thin 100 yard or so 'no man's land' leading up to a fence. And it was not low sec or null sec in equivalence. It was Death sec. It was "death sec" for the lowsec citizens of eastern Europe yes. But for the elite class of Russia I think the motherland was more "high sec".
|

Lexmana
812
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 21:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote:Lexmana wrote: Fair points. Though I would expect some "lower sec" between two empires such as the demilitarised zone between north/south Korea and perhaps also eastern Europe between the Russia and the western part of Europe after ww2.
The problem with a map change like this is that is done entirely outside of the player's activities. You are suggesting that CCP turn its back on emergent gameplay and the core philosophy of EVE to force people into doing things instead of providing more game mechanics that allow for changes to happen (regardless of if the change happens there is a option there that allows for it.) I'd rather see CCP implement a more flexible security status / control mechanic for systems. Basically, the more options that CCP gives to players to alter how the Universe is structured the better. I would love to see faction warfare result in space being completely converted into the domain of the faction that held it and to see the security status of that held space slowly rise. So, if Minmatar forces pushed to the edge of Amarr space and held the territory for a long time (a RL month perhaps?) over that period the control influence (and security status) would solidify and the war would shift into what is currently immutable Amarr territory. That would mean that Minmatar space would expand, the low security space would shift, and Amarr territory would contract.
Actually, that is not too far from hat I suggested earlier (see below). I would love to see FW have real influence on empire and not just the availability of navy ships. It would be epic if FW outcomes directly influenced security levels of key systems in empire such as trade routes or mission hubs.
Lexmana wrote:As a twist I would make FW have an impact by temporarily open up a highsec corridor between allies when certain FW objectives are met.
|

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1327
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 22:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Generally I'd say that massively reworking the fundamentals like this is a no-no in a persistent environment game like Eve.
Tweaking the odd gate destination here and there, sure, but you get to the stage where you're completely redrawing the map, and you may as well go the whole way and start asking for a server wipe and restart. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Aaewen Hrothgarson
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
29
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 22:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:While the thoughtful and intelligent responses so far have been heartwarming...allow me to carry on...
- Jita is emergent, but why not trade-boosted hubs in the losec bisects shown to encourage travel to losec? i.e. All trades done there get less tax/boosted/etc - Its not about 'the right way..' to play EVE, its about making it better without changes to mechanics at all. - To wit, having 'chunks' of null allow for smaller alliances or large corps to aquire SOV, rather than just the big guys always owning all the big swaths
Give it some thought before knee-jerk dissing this idea guys, and with some tweaks I am confident it has merit.
F
You really think lowering taxes (which aren't that big anyway) will bring merchants to flock to low sec in masses to make "eazy kills" for lazy pirates?
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Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
255
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 22:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:While the thoughtful and intelligent responses so far have been heartwarming...allow me to carry on...
- Jita is emergent, but why not trade-boosted hubs in the losec bisects shown to encourage travel to losec? i.e. All trades done there get less tax/boosted/etc - Its not about 'the right way..' to play EVE, its about making it better without changes to mechanics at all. - To wit, having 'chunks' of null allow for smaller alliances or large corps to aquire SOV, rather than just the big guys always owning all the big swaths
Give it some thought before knee-jerk dissing this idea guys, and with some tweaks I am confident it has merit.
F
Boosting trade how? Extra isk on a sales? YAY for another isk faucet. The taxes amount nearly to nothing at all so people won't change trade spot for just that
The market settled in Jita because it was convinient. CCP never forced anyone to trade in Jita and they still don't. The player gathered thier stuff for sales and thier buy order there.
Not sure about the real end effect to null being made of small pockets instead of the current open space. It might look better for smaller corp/alliance but no one know how it would actually end. If the currently held space was to be fragmented, it would most likely be hell for some time to deal with the change. |

Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 02:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:The EVE universe map with respect to how hisec, losec and null interact should be redrawn to encourage.... - More players transiting losec or null - More players living or travelling to losec or null - Less incentive to stay in hisec & carebear forever - Break up the huge swaths of nullsec sov grind and allow smaller alliances to get some null The solution..... - Make hisec 4 faction pockets of smaller size - Bisect the hisec & nullsec pockets with losec pockets - Place a trade-boosted hub in each faction losec bisect (i.e. Super Jita) - Reduce mission & mineral payouts in hisec, boost them in losec and super-boost them in null The sample... http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s591/evegod/HowItShouldBe_zps1b44428b.jpg(Obviously VERY ROUGH -- but something to get people thinking...ultimately its time for a rethink of the map to resolve the issues mentioned....) Sincerely, The Dark Lord of Crux, F
0.0 sec should be drawn in rainbow colours and make the place look attractive...then when the bastards have CROSSED over WE CAN GANK THEM ALL!!! HAHAHAHA! |

stoicfaux
2172
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 03:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: FYI: There is a 4km wide 'DMZ' between north and south Korea filled with mines and covered by snipers waiting to do target practice..... aka Losec/nullsec :)
Don't forget that the DMZ has drones, sentry guns, and faction navy as well.
To get back on topic, the OP needs to draw upon the real world if the OP wishes to manipulate |

Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
273
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 06:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
1) Move to wormholes, 2) proceed to stop caring about the existence of k-space, including high/low/null, 3) make isk, 4) play eve the FUN way, 5) get drunk with mandatory alliance australians, 6) fly suicide gangs of T3 2bil+ ships because why not, 7) die in glorious battle, 8) enter stovokor, 9) be reborn, 10) repeat process. |

Super spikinator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 07:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Jita is an emergent thing, CCP can't just add more trade hubs.
And why would anyone want to segregate nullsec into pockets?
Funnily enough, the current Jita is heavily nerfed compared to old Jita. Jita is a result of several design decisions with the original map. It has basically anything you want to do within 5 jumps of it. No other trade hub was as well crafted as Jita. |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2041
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 07:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tarvos Telesto wrote:people who play less than other are poor while these who play a lot are rich.
I clocked around 140 hours play time last year & made enough for an officer fit Nyx. More play time doesn't really mean more isk, just as less play time doesn't make someone poor. The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |

Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 13:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:Yet another belligerent undesirable attempting to force filth and lawlessness on we the True Citizens and Desirables of Eve, the High Security Players. Back to the bad lands, savage.  Nothing I proposed actually forces empire players to change, its about incentivizing transits through losec, and aquisition of sov in null -- with the ability for smaller organizations to actually aquire sov (by breaking up null) Imagine small pockets of null that aren't worth the trouble for big alliances to take, but well worth small alliances or big corps to constantly fight over....breaking up null with losec pockets will do this.
So you'd have your pirate scum attack innocent people easier? Of course..
Belligerent undesirables should know their place when making unwanted suggestions  |

TharOkha
0asis Group
480
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 13:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Moar juicy targets No GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |

Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 13:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
Posting in another "they dont play like I do, nerf it NAOH" thread.
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Luke Visteen
Apostasy Prime
187
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 13:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
I want a portal to pony realm somwhere in high-sec  I don't always do. But when I do - I do. |
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