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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.06.11 04:25:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: dimensionZ
*NEWS FLASH*
When you die, you actually lose something !!!1111
What the hell?!
CCP u sux0rZ gimmeh fr33 stuff or all gon' quit!!
Mai's Idealog |
Falbala
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Posted - 2005.06.11 05:42:00 -
[32]
Yes, you are not supposed to die 15 times a day like on other PvP games because if you could it would imbalance the game territories and also economically, you could go mine arkonor or go npc hunting wherever you want and don't bother about pod death.
The real problem I see are implants costs because you lose hundred of millions if you die with implants, not a mere 8M for a clone.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.11 06:16:00 -
[33]
Yea, implants are another reason not to PvP.
But to me the top reason still is that I don't feel loss when I am forced to do another activity then PvP in order to regain what I have lost - that's just anoying...
Why would I want to do boring content to get the ISK to go into PvP only to loose it again? Instead I would like to PvP, make money doing it, finance better ships with that, and if I end up losing them start out with a frig again untill you get back to where you were - perpetual PvP... would be interesting and make flying a frig or cruiser a bit more usefull...
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Gleek
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Posted - 2005.06.11 07:05:00 -
[34]
Did I miss a CRY MORE NOOB somewhere?
WTF??
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AlexK100
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Posted - 2005.06.11 07:41:00 -
[35]
Edited by: AlexK100 on 11/06/2005 07:49:01
Originally by: Dianabolic
Prices are fine.
Signed.
1. Why shall you mine in empire if you pvp in 0.0 ?
2. People do not get podde too often unless they are either afk or extremely laggy.
Yes, you can easily loose one on gate to smartbombing BS or in fleet battle due to lags but... most of the time it`s really easy it`s save a pod.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.11 08:12:00 -
[36]
My clones are expensive.
I usually have a few implants installed.
I still PvP.
Why?
Because if you are afraid of dying, you have already lost.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
anter
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Posted - 2005.06.11 08:25:00 -
[37]
I dont have problem with clone cost as I play a lot, but I can see this could be problem for more casual players that dont play so much and fly cheaper ships, so one clone could cost them much as whole ship + equipment for them.
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Clementina
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Posted - 2005.06.11 08:38:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Noriath
Yea, implants are another reason not to PvP.
Actually it's the reverse. PvP is another reason not to use implants.
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TimeKeepr
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Posted - 2005.06.11 09:27:00 -
[39]
the clone cost is fine. im currently using the best close possible, since it is the only one that covers all my sp.
clone cost is HARDLY the reason people shy away from pvp. its the implants. clone prices are pocket change compared the price of what some people have plugged into their heads.
it is possible to avoid pvp. if you dont want to lose it, then dont risk it. eve is no fun without risk, i say.
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pshepherd
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Posted - 2005.06.11 09:57:00 -
[40]
my clone cost is nothing compared to what my full set of +3's would cost to replace 
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.06.11 10:03:00 -
[41]
when setting the costs of clones - CCP would have done a lot of datamining to determine average and well targetted costs versus ISK higher skilled players can manage on level 4 missions - higher SP players tend to earn more money and hence pay more money to protect their clones.
Like setting corp tax average sales transaction 35000 so thats where it is set i think etc.
Its all balanced and fine tuned.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.06.11 10:05:00 -
[42]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 11/06/2005 10:05:20
Originally by: Clementina
Actually it's the reverse. PvP is another reason not to use implants.
PvP is the only reason not to use imps. I mean... where else can you loose 'em?
No pain no gain.
Mai's Idealog |
Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.06.11 10:32:00 -
[43]
Death is meaningless if there is no loss. This is not counterstrike in space.
At least with the insurance on TII ships killing someone actually has impact. The insurance on TI ships is so carebear it isn't even funny.
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Taz Devlin
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Posted - 2005.06.11 12:30:00 -
[44]
Overcome & adapt!
And in the name of everything that is holy... stop this infernal whining.
Allways move fast, you never know who's catching up!
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.06.11 15:29:00 -
[45]
First, its an isksink of decetn proportion.
Secondly, while gained skillpoints and needing more expensive clones you also gain isk making potential.
That potential is reflected in clone prices, and that makes perfect sense to me.
Eve sint about ebing able to frag and be fragged daily. The cost of dying is the main thing preventing that, yet another reason for keeping it at a decent level like now.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
SinBin
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Posted - 2005.06.11 15:35:00 -
[46]
Yea as rod saying by the time you need high end clone you should have bucket loads of isk & experiance to not get podded.
I have implants & pvp & only lost 1 pod in the last yaer to a gate bug, witch is fixed now.
_______________________________________
Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
Maybe end the election round will do it ?
& could save hundred of Users & Mods pain. |
Dred 'Morte
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Posted - 2005.06.11 15:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: The Hellion
i am sorry if i sound arrogant (i really am) but my word is final, so give up after i have said what i am about to say.
1. if you need a clone that costs 17m you're old enough a character to know ways to make that money easy, so should be able to afford it. hell im not old but with a couple of lvl 4 missions ill make that in 30 mins, and yes, i can do them in 0.0 space
2. fighting has risks, one of those risks is dying, yes, you may die, deal with it homie.
3. buhu
and to top it off, im going to use that most arrogant of emoticons, the one that is sure to invoke a reaction in the reader and make them contemplate my arrogance, but anyway....  pharoah has spoken, deal with it
I have never heard of a lvl 4 mission that can be completed in 30 mins and rewards the player with 17mill or more
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.11 17:44:00 -
[48]
Someone I know ran a level 4 mission yesterday and said he made about 100 mils on a single mission in loot, bounties and reward... Took him about 2-3 hours.
Counterstrike in space... - Wasn't counterstrike the first multiplayer FPS to acctually include a penulty for dying?
And again: Having to runn stupid repetative missions in order to make the money to blow on PvP is not a decent system to handle losses while PvPing. Why in the blazes would I want to spend tons of time making the money only to blow it on an activity where I am sure to lose it sooner or later? That doesn't make any sense if you take a step back and take a good look at the overall Scenario...
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Sochin
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Posted - 2005.06.11 17:44:00 -
[49]
I haven't been podded in like 8 months, and I've been pvping hardcore almost every day of that. Its really no THAT difficult to avoid if you know the tricks.
Granted, there are situations where getting podded is nearly impossible to avoid, but those times are rare.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.12 07:20:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Noriath on 12/06/2005 07:26:36
Originally by: F'nog
I just have to say that if you've been playing long enough to have the SPs that require a 17mil ISK clone and don't know how to make that much money in one mild night of playing, you're doing something wrong.
Or maybe you're just bored out of your skull by doing whatever else can make you 17mil in a mild night of playing... because I'm pretty sure it involves doing something mindless and repetative.
And hey, suppose there were no skills in eve, and no need to make ISK. Would anyone acctually want to play this game? Hell no, it wouldn't be entertaining at all if there was nothing you could possibly gain from spending time on it. But that's exactly the measure of how good a game acctually is!
Of course it would be stupid if you could never lose or gain anything, but if playing the game itself was so much fun that people would do it even if they can't gain anything then at least it would be a good system - a system like that together with the possiblity to advance youself would be absoloutly great.
If nobody would play the game if there was no way to advance your character then clearly the game is not acctually a good game, just an elaborate trap for idiots who think online accomplishments are worth any amount of time spent doing things that they would never enjoy if there was nothing to be gained from them.
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Armaki Kalear
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Posted - 2005.06.12 09:00:00 -
[51]
 I dedicate this lol to any PvPer who invested a million skillpoints or more into the learning tree.
This lol is for anybody who thought they could be a jack of all trades and also PvP.
Hello consequences!
--
Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOĆs |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.06.12 09:30:00 -
[52]
I use implants, have a 25 million SP clone and do daily PvP
thats a money sink, especially when Eve crashes on a random order
Wanna fly with me?
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Vinyl Pants
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Posted - 2005.06.12 16:09:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sleazy Cabbie
If there was no clone cost you would still use that money on ships/mods, you would still have a money sink, people would just take their clone money and buy a better ship.
People currently play the game with clone costs, and still buy new stuff, remove clone costs = they have more money.
Having to spend time mining just to buy a clone sucks.
You know, there is more ways to make money than just simply mining. it just takes... erm... EFFORT!
There is no non-pvp game in Eve, so "don't pvp" is not an option.
OMG - that has got to be in the top 100 most stupid things said on the forum this month.
EVE IS NOT A PVP GAME. it is a game that HAS pvp in in it. there are a LOT of things to do, dont think of eve as much as a game, eve is a playground setup with all the stuff you need to make your own game.
I really think clone cost is what is keeping the largest amount of people from enjoying the game.
Yes clones are expensive, but i totally dissagree with that statement. I enjoy eve a lot, and pleny of the people out there loosing expensive clones still enjoy the game.
You would still need to farm money to upgrade your clone to the next SP level, and you would need to farm 10x the amount, but once you finish grinding money you can relax and play the game.
right, so instead of what you say currently happen is:
1) Play in 0.0
2) Get podded
3) Go mine for days to buy new clone
- Rinse and repeat -
you think that:
1) Play in 0.0
2) Skill cap hits next clone up
3) Mine for a month to buy your next clone
- Rinse and repeat -
Is any better?
buhu
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Vinyl Pants
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Posted - 2005.06.12 16:12:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Noriath
Yea, implants are another reason not to PvP.
But to me the top reason still is that I don't feel loss when I am forced to do another activity then PvP in order to regain what I have lost - that's just anoying...
Why would I want to do boring content to get the ISK to go into PvP only to loose it again? Instead I would like to PvP, make money doing it, finance better ships with that, and if I end up losing them start out with a frig again untill you get back to where you were - perpetual PvP... would be interesting and make flying a frig or cruiser a bit more usefull...
- I think you've hit the problem on the head there. PVP to some people is the most fun thing in eve, but it's not like its a guaranteed stable income, you could fight for days, and earn the equivilant of a spud. or you kill some guys ship and get 100mil of modules out of it, that you share with your friends.
I believe some more PVP specific content would make this much better than simply removing clone costs. other Content that encourages PVP, such as working fir pirate corps to remove players from asteroid belts in their systems, or stuff like that.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.06.12 16:17:00 -
[55]
That's called non-pvp combat, or pve-combat.
We see those in the form of kill missions, belt ratting and doing complexes.
they earn isk, lots of it. Some of them can even be fun some of the time.
As far as earning real isk with pvping goes, you could gatecamp and gank indies returning to empire hoping for a zydrine catch or something. Probably will net you enough, but it will turn you off pvp as sure as the dullness of asteroids turned you off mining.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Domalais
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Posted - 2005.06.12 16:44:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Armaki Kalear
This lol is for anybody who thought they could be a jack of all trades and also PvP.
Hello consequences!
First of all, wouldn't by definition a "jack of all trades" also be a jack of PVP?
Second, my skill points are quite balanced, and I've never had a problem PVPing. I have all the industry skills I need to self-sustain, and I think you'll find that many PVPers (especially the oldschool 0.0 folks) are the same way. Just throw 700K or so into industry for refining and PE and you're good to go.
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Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.06.12 16:54:00 -
[57]
If you need to pay millions for a fresh clone then you should be advanced enough to make the cash without a thought for example im a 4.7 mil sp person i make 25 mil in 2 hours average on level 3/4 missions and through rat hunting and loot recycling.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.12 17:03:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Vinyl Pants
I believe some more PVP specific content would make this much better than simply removing clone costs. other Content that encourages PVP, such as working fir pirate corps to remove players from asteroid belts in their systems, or stuff like that.
That's exactly the point I made about perpetual PvP.
If you're a PvPer you should not have to do PvE activities to finance top of the line equipment, go into battle and do the same thing again if you lose your ship.
You should be able to get into a frigate or cruiser and fight, be payed a certain amount of money for putting your ass on the line, then finance a battleship from that payout, and if that battleship gets destroyed you just start over with a frig.
First of all this would make frigs and cruisers more useful in PvP without them being able to defeat a battlship, because they would be a direct pathway back into a battleship, and second of all it would allow you to continue to PvP without interruption without removing the penulty for death - simply because if you lose enough money you end up at the bottom of the PvP food chain again and have to work your way up...
Basicly there could be agents that pay you money if you patroll a certain system, or atack anotherone - not dependent on wether you win or lose ( of course if you win you get bonuses)
Alliances could be able to create agents like that and decide what kinds of missions they should offer. (For example if they want to harass another alliance they tell the agent to give out invasion orders for their core systems...)
Stuff like that would be great and make PvP more fun, because you wouldn't have to fall back on the most boring gameplay elements to enjoy PvP then...
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Sleazy Cabbie
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Posted - 2005.06.12 20:12:00 -
[59]
Definitely. Doing boring stuff to do fun stuff is ass.
You should only have to mine if you actually enjoy it. You should only have to NPC if you actually enjoy it. Naturally there should be a cost for losing etc, but I think it's perfectly acceptable to be able to perpetually fight a losing war using frigates.
I mean what are we afraid of here, that the losing party is going to keep re-spawning in an Ibis to fight you? Eventually you wear their wallet down anyway, to the point where they can't fight.
If someone finds it acceptable to constantly fight in a frigate, they should be able to do so, and you know frigate drivers get podded alot, so why should it cost a few million isk just to drive a Rifter into battle, your ship is dirt cheap but your clone is so expensive that you can't drive anything but a BS, to be survivable and keep yourself from dying alot.
Are there any frigate/inty drivers with a 10mil + clone? That's a nice way to go broke, lose 12 mil on insurance, lose another 10 mil on your clone, and all you managed to do was warpscramble somebody and get smartbombed.
I'm just speaking from my own experiences, maybe I'm doing something wrong but money is a constant problem for me, I've always been broke in every game I played.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.13 01:58:00 -
[60]
Yea, I'm also usually broke, because I just don't enjoy spending my free time grinding for virtual money.
I have nothing against PvP, but I think someone should be paying me to fight for them, I shouldn't be paying for the chance to die...
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