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Log out tactics, CTD, Loss of Connection and new Half Hour timer relog

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X'Alor	Posted - 2005.06.13 19:25:00 - [1] Curious. CCP has already said they are going to have a half hour timer to combat people using the log off tacticts to save ship in battle. That idea is fine and dandy to combat log off tactics but......... Just curious what will happen to the multitude of players that have CTD and loss of connection problems. I sometimes have over 5 CTD per 3 stage deadspace missions. That equates to me trying to do one DS mission with 2.5 hours wait time per 3 stage deadspace mission. And what about those who arrange partners and friends to do these missions and subsiquently one of them has a CTD and suppose it's the mission holder and leader? They didn't use this tactic but probably won't be able to log into thier game for a half hour due to a CTD. And what is gonna happen when after that half hour they finally get to log in only to find a loss of ship to the CTD loss of connection. I can't see one good thing coming from a half hour timer for myself and the multitudes of CTD I have from DS missions. That will make it completely unplayble for myself and I don't even use the tactic.
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.06.13 19:32:00 - [2] I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. The timer is to prevent your ship disappearing for 30mins if you log off while warp scrambled. It doesnt prevent you logging back in. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Qayos	Posted - 2005.06.13 19:32:00 - [3] You've completely misunderstood the change I am pretty sure. It's posted elsewhere at least once, probably 3 diff times in diff threads, and will be posted again, and asked again many times... just wait till it comes out and see :).
X'Alor	Posted - 2005.06.13 20:28:00 - [4] So that in mind. I get CTD in missions quite regularly. I rarely can log back in for usually 5 minutes or longer. if it happens under fire then I can control my warp away and my ship will be toast by time everything logs back in. If I didn't CTD then I could safely warp away when things get to hot. So I get a CTD and the ship stays put for a half hour? well that won't be very nice especially when most CTD in missions happen when your under fire. Badda bing I file petition for loss ship for staying put after CTD. I understood it as a you log off, they keep you logged for one half hour. Can you link any of the previous threads where a dev may have commented on it? if the ship stays put that is doubly bad.
Murod	Posted - 2005.06.13 20:31:00 - [5] Edited by: Murod on 13/06/2005 20:32:17 Originally by: X'Alor So that in mind. I get CTD in missions quite regularly. I rarely can log back in for usually 5 minutes or longer. if it happens under fire then I can control my warp away and my ship will be toast by time everything logs back in. If I didn't CTD then I could safely warp away when things get to hot. So I get a CTD and the ship stays put for a half hour? well that won't be very nice especially when most CTD in missions happen when your under fire. Badda bing I file petition for loss ship for staying put after CTD. I understood it as a you log off, they keep you logged for one half hour. Can you link any of the previous threads where a dev may have commented on it? if the ship stays put that is doubly bad. Originally by: Oveur The timer does not affect you when fighting NPC's (PVE) only when you are engaged with a player. If you are not warp scrambled, you will warp away as usual, if you are warp scrambled, you won't warp away. Your ship hangs around for 30 minutes after a player engagement. It might get tuned a bit but in general you won't be able to log of your ship to escape certain death Edit: Link to Devblod where it is discussed.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.06.13 20:32:00 - [6] Currently: You log during a mission, your ship warps out if possible. It disappears after 2 minutes regardless of whether you warped out or not. You log during PvP, and its the same as missions. If you CTD, the above happens, and you can't log in for 5 minutes. After patch: You log during a mission, same as before. You log during PvP, your ship warps out if possible, and disappears after 30 minutes. If you CTD, the above happens, and you can't log in for 5 minutes. The CTD timer is not changing. -- The best description of alliances, ever:
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.06.13 20:32:00 - [7] Originally by: X'Alor if the ship stays put that is doubly bad. No it's not, and for so many reasons that have made this change a necessity. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
X'Alor	Posted - 2005.06.14 14:23:00 - [8] Thanks, sometimes it takes a bit to jump my synapsis. puff puff puff must refrain from reading like that. only affects PvP and ship only stays "put" if warp scrambled but does stay active for 1/2 hour and will warp away if not scrambled. MMMMMMMMMM Now we gotz a 30 minute window to launch 3 3au probes and steal his ship possibly. bring on the fast scanners
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.06.14 14:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Dark Shikari Currently: If you CTD, the above happens, and you can't log in for 5 minutes. No such thing :p [Heterocephalus glaber]
Riggwelter	Posted - 2005.06.14 14:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Dark Shikari Currently: If you CTD, the above happens, and you can't log in for 5 minutes. No such thing :p I know theres no such thing by design i have however noticed that after a CTD (in deadspace missions) i cant immediatly log the same character back in. It gets 50% through the getting character stage then just stalls. I have found that logging in an alt then logging in the character does allow you back in. Maybe we have some unexpected feature of dead space missions in play. They who shout the loudest normally have the least to say.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.06.14 14:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Riggwelter Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Dark Shikari Currently: If you CTD, the above happens, and you can't log in for 5 minutes. No such thing :p I know theres no such thing by design i have however noticed that after a CTD (in deadspace missions) i cant immediatly log the same character back in. It gets 50% through the getting character stage then just stalls. I have found that logging in an alt then logging in the character does allow you back in. Maybe we have some unexpected feature of dead space missions in play. atm it will not allow u to log back in until ur ship has disappeared. Its best to leave it 30secs - 1min after a CTD before u try and log back in. If you log back in while ur ship is still in space u get the 5-10minute bug/stuck thing thats really annoying and usually solved with a full system reboot Forums: Sharks - MC
Oveur	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:04:00 - [12] Edited by: Oveur on 14/06/2005 15:04:21 Originally by: Murod Edited by: Murod on 13/06/2005 20:32:17 Originally by: X'Alor So that in mind. I get CTD in missions quite regularly. I rarely can log back in for usually 5 minutes or longer. if it happens under fire then I can control my warp away and my ship will be toast by time everything logs back in. If I didn't CTD then I could safely warp away when things get to hot. So I get a CTD and the ship stays put for a half hour? well that won't be very nice especially when most CTD in missions happen when your under fire. Badda bing I file petition for loss ship for staying put after CTD. I understood it as a you log off, they keep you logged for one half hour. Can you link any of the previous threads where a dev may have commented on it? if the ship stays put that is doubly bad. Originally by: Oveur The timer does not affect you when fighting NPC's (PVE) only when you are engaged with a player. If you are not warp scrambled, you will warp away as usual, if you are warp scrambled, you won't warp away. Your ship hangs around for 30 minutes after a player engagement. It might get tuned a bit but in general you won't be able to log of your ship to escape certain death Edit: Link to Devblod where it is discussed. What he ... uhm, what I said! And uhm ... Well, anyways. As I was saying, your ships always tries to warp away immediately no matter what the situation. But it gets tricky depending on who you are in combat with when it disappears. So, say you are in deadspace, and like, you have some of those pesky rats on you. Your ship will disappear after 1 minute (That's the current PVE timer). But, say you are in combat with a player. He doesn't have you warp scrambled, voila, you warp away. However, your ship wont disappear until after 30 minutes. If he does have you warp scrambled, you won't be able to get away and your ship wont disappear until after 30 minutes. It will of course warp away the minute it isn't warp scrambled anymore. In all cases, you can always log back in and continue the fight. If you encounter otherwise, be sure to submit a Bug Report! The tuning I talked about in that quote will be taking factors like (but not limited to) capital ship time-to-destruction, scan probe effectiveness and what we feel to be enough! Hope that answers your questions. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
John Blackthorn	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:20:00 - [13] If you are getting so many crash to desktops (CTD), then why don't you fix your computer? Update your sound and video drivers to start with. If they are updated then check with others to see if they had to back down to a previous version to get it to work well. I almost never have a ctd on any of my three computers I have running eve. And then I only get them when I load 2-3 clients up on one computer -BT
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:21:00 - [14] Quote: But, say you are in combat with a player. He doesn't have you warp scrambled, voila, you warp away. However, your ship wont disappear until after 30 minutes. One question regarding this Oveur. If you were engaged in combat (I assume btw that this goes wether you initiated the combat as well as when it was initiated against you), how long does that "pvp combatant' flag last ? Say for example, I engage another player but do not scramble. He warps off to planet X moon Y before my friends show up that could scramble him. At moon Y (unknown which moon that is to me but I'd find out inside a minute of course if he'd stay online), he logs off. 1. Will his ship stay in space for 30 minutes now ? And: say he logs back in right away, and out again right away, giving me no chance to find and scramble him since his autowarp will bring him back to moon Y but away again right away. 2. Will he dissapear after 2 minutes, or 30 minutes this time ? Lastly, do you guys consider removing scan probes (for all I care just the 3 au ones) from the scanner overview to introduce more risk into safespotting in hostile systems ? ok, thats three question, but still I'd just love to know the answers. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Oveur	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Rod Blaine Quote: But, say you are in combat with a player. He doesn't have you warp scrambled, voila, you warp away. However, your ship wont disappear until after 30 minutes. One question regarding this Oveur. If you were engaged in combat (I assume btw that this goes wether you initiated the combat as well as when it was initiated against you), how long does that "pvp combatant' flag last ? Say for example, I engage another player but do not scramble. He warps off to planet X moon Y before my friends show up that could scramble him. At moon Y (unknown which moon that is to me but I'd find out inside a minute of course if he'd stay online), he logs off. 1. Will his ship stay in space for 30 minutes now ? And: say he logs back in right away, and out again right away, giving me no chance to find and scramble him since his autowarp will bring him back to moon Y but away again right away. 2. Will he dissapear after 2 minutes, or 30 minutes this time ? Lastly, do you guys consider removing scan probes (for all I care just the 3 au ones) from the scanner overview to introduce more risk into safespotting in hostile systems ? ok, thats three question, but still I'd just love to know the answers. First, it doesn't matter to the timer whether you scramble or not, it's the engagement that counts. It also doesn't matter where he warps for how long he stays. He will stay in space for 30 minutes. Second, the logout should not affect the timer (But lets check on Sisi just to make sure!) Lastly, yes we have considered removing them a number of times. But lets see what these changes do before we go to that. After all, if it's a 10+ minute timer he should be offline anyway when you are 3AU away from him, right? _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Nyphur on 14/06/2005 16:03:59 Originally by: Oveur So, say you are in deadspace, and like, you have some of those pesky rats on you. Your ship will disappear after 1 minute (That's the current PVE timer). I'd like to correct you there, Oveur. If you quit in deadspace, it actually does manage to warp away. Then when you log back in, you warp right back in. The logoff warp isn't disrupted by deadspace. Reading your post, I guess you thought it was so this must be a bug. I'm sure of this because I run complexes a lot and I thought it best to let you know. And while I have your attention, have you considered changing the scan probe's scan thickness to increase with range? Currently, the 48AU probes are next to useless because the 1AU scan thickness becomes a greater margin of error depending on the distance your object is away from you. I was thinking that this scan thickness should be set to 1/3 the scan radius. That would leave the 3AU probes as they are and make the larger ones less useless.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:02:00 - [17] If I shot someone 21 minutes ago but have to safespot for whatever reason, I can safely do so under the assumption my ship does not hang out for 30 minutes? Is this affected by the current bug where gang members aren't flagged for aggression? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:03:00 - [18] Quote: First, it doesn't matter to the timer whether you scramble or not, it's the engagement that counts. It also doesn't matter where he warps for how long he stays. He will stay in space for 30 minutes. Second, the logout should not affect the timer (But lets check on Sisi just to make sure!) Lastly, yes we have considered removing them a number of times. But lets see what these changes do before we go to that. After all, if it's a 10+ minute timer he should be offline anyway when you are 3AU away from him, right? Hmm. that doesnt answer my question, or i dont get it. To simplyfy the question: For how long does an engagement affect the log off timer ? or; How long do I need to be 'unengaged' in order to revert back to the 2 minute timer ? It's somewhat of a vital question imo. If that period of being free from engagement is short, we'll see ways to wrok around that period and we'll see this timer do nothing to stop logging off at safespots in hostile systems when hostiles are trying to scan you down after a fight. If it is long, we'll see problems with exactly that: logging off legitimately outside of a station when any hostile knows about you being there. And if it remains unknown, we'll see alot of trouble after this patch hits. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Rod Blaine To simplyfy the question: For how long does an engagement affect the log off timer ? or; How long do I need to be 'unengaged' in order to revert back to the 2 minute timer ? Any less than 28 minutes would make the 30-minute logoff timer shorter so it's at least 28 minutes. I'm guessing the answer is a standard 30 minutes, though.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Hellspawn01 I had a mate warp scrambled yesterday as he crashed at a gate. His ship disappeared after 1-2 minutes. The changes haven't been implemented on Tranquility yet :p.
Lifewire	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:37:00 - [21] I love the 30-min timer . Finally all the loggers will get what they deserve. It comes 2 years too late but better now then never.
X'Alor	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:38:00 - [22] thank you oveur. As for ........... Originally by: John Blackthorn If you are getting so many crash to desktops (CTD), then why don't you fix your computer? Update your sound and video drivers to start with. If they are updated then check with others to see if they had to back down to a previous version to get it to work well. I almost never have a ctd on any of my three computers I have running eve. And then I only get them when I load 2-3 clients up on one computer -BT ummmmm before exodus i had no CTD issues and baught a second duplicate puter cuz performance was so good and both were flawless and all drivers are current to the same drivers that were being used before exodus. No changes in drivers and all were updated and current befor eexodus and all drivers are still the same. Before exodus = flawless not one single CTD anyplace and was so pleased with my new puter that i got the second. Since exodus, can average One CTD minimum per deadspace lvl and as many as 5 or 6 for a 3 satage and who knows on the five stage. Only change, exodus. Now you'll prolly say something like need more Ram. um 2 gig aint enough. Since when does it say minimum requirement 4 gig of ram. what's that they say, walk a mile in a mans shoes
Riddari	Posted - 2005.06.14 16:57:00 - [23] You know this is a clear statement on the amount of real life that Devs currently enjoy (I'm guessing it's another crunch time now and they don't see their loved ones much). A scenario if you will: HED-GP, huge fleet battle. 50 vs 50 battleships. Faction X wins a victory against Faction Y who retreat to safe spots. Player 13 from Faction Y makes a new safespot only for himself and warps to it and logs off since he went way past his regular bedtime to be able to participate. Player 1337 with Faction X is snooping for the Faction Y fleet. He discovers the ship that Player 13 was in. He hones in on it using probes and arrives at it 25 minutes after Player 13 logged off to go to bed. Player 13 logs in the next evening, hoping to take part in another great battle and maybe end up on the winning side. Shock horror! He is in his clone bay! What! He checks the killmail (opening his mail freezes his system for 30 seconds but since he's docked it doesn't kill him this time) and sees it happened almost 30 minutes after he went to bed! "Oh what a nice game this is..." he thinks. I can be killed in my sleep. Awesome... or not. ¼©¼ a history
Redundancy	Posted - 2005.06.14 17:08:00 - [24] X'Alor - There's a deadspace CTD issue that I'm hunting for, it would certainly be useful if you could log and bug report your CTDs on SISI if they're that easily reproducable.
Shirei	Posted - 2005.06.14 17:21:00 - [25] Edited by: Shirei on 14/06/2005 17:22:55 So, if I understand the dev comments here correctly... your ship will stay in space for 30 minutes after you have engaged in any PvP actions, regardless of whether you log off or not? I personally wouldn't like that change because it would mean having to stay online doing essentially nothing for 30 minutes after all fleet battles (which tend to be rather late at night often). A fairer solution might have been adding another PvP-timer of maybe 5-10 minutes after you have engaged in any kind of PvP and having ships disappear 30 minutes after logging off, if they log off within that PvP timer. That would make any logging directly in combat impossible without losing your ship but won't force you to stay logged on doing nothing but warping between safespots for long periods of time after any PvP engagement, although there is no real danger to you in that time unless you are too stupid to watch the range scanner.
Tananda Vaakaja	Posted - 2005.06.14 17:21:00 - [26] Interesting all around... My only concern is.. (and it may have been addressed already... ) you're in a PvP fight.. kicking buttock and taking names. Your scrambled.. but you KNOW you can tank and deal enought dmg to finish off your erstwhile opponent.. BAM!! LEGITAMATE CTD... now your opponent has free buttraping priveleges on your expensive ship. How will CCP address this? It's a tad worrying.. Thx.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.06.14 17:42:00 - [27] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/06/2005 17:42:24 Well, I kind of assumed that there would be such an additional pvp timer that governs the logoff timer of 30 or 2 minutes. It seems that that timer is just the same, 30 minutes. That does raise the valid issue of post-engagement logging indeed. I totally agree that there should be such a period, but I wonder if this very long one wont result in people not bothering with pvp if they dont have at least 30 clear minutes ahead. It's got me in doubt tbh. I guess we'll ahve to wait and see what it does to pvp. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Toolbert	Posted - 2005.06.14 17:46:00 - [28] I get disconnected from the game constantly, there is a bug where it crashes if you sometimes use alt+tab, which I do often to read webpages while mining. But everytime I am able to log in right away, so I dont see what the problem is?
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.06.14 17:52:00 - [29] They said to make sure you got into a station or somewhere safe like a POS before logging off if you were in combat recently. That means if you want to do a good battle and log off straight afterward, you're going to need a close base to launch yourself from.
CmdoColin	Posted - 2005.06.14 18:07:00 - [30] ouch I generally log in hostile systems after a fight because its way way past my bed time. My boss is getting kinda tired of hearing about spaceships as an excuse for oversleeping and being late. So if I'm in PvP - and the fight has been won or lost 5 - 10 minutes ago, I've a 20-25 minute wait for that timer end so my ship will disapear? It would be quicker to head for a station... My boss ain't gonna like that. Not sure I like the effect that will have on my payrise either. Audita et altera pars

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