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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:05:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Aphoxema G
Disco! Look'up'a word... 'Semantics'
Kally! I think'at you're tryin'a approach'a wrong audience on'is.. ya'might wan'na start tryin'a guess if'n everyone on IGS knows'as 'Philosophy' is...
Cosmo! Remember.. some people're just naturally punts, huh? Ya'don't have'a defend'a 'gainst everything people say..
Pully! Some people just'on't get it, yeah? Don't worry any.
Everyone else! Never take anythin'at people say'on Intergalactic Summit seriously.. I'ave reason'a believe at the ectoplasm gives people the terrible disease'at plagues alot'ta politicians... 'Conceit'.
I find them amusing, therefore I'll always take time off to banter with the silly Galnet posters.
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:09:00 -
[92]
Is this supposed to be a group hug moment?
It's really awkward right now... 
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:19:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
Is this supposed to be a group hug moment?
It's really awkward right now...
Uhh... Aphox can I get Lord Plush to participate in the group hug for me?
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Aphoxema G
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:26:00 -
[94]
Aphoxema frowns.
Damnit, Pully. CONSENT TO THE GROUP HUG!
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Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:46:00 -
[95]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
First of all, I rarely leave my capsule and usually transmit my 'holopersona' to a suitable reception location.
Second, I am almost always in a controlled environment on those occasions when I leave my capsule.
Well my friend, I humbly submit that you have exchanged the slavery to nature with a different kind of slavery, even assuming your equipment will work optimally if/when that is needed. Personally, I'll take slavery to nature and risk of permanent death over that kind of existance any day. 
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:51:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Pulgor
Originally by: Shemar
Using slaves for profit has it's (sick) logic, but using them so that the Amarr can get their regular power trippping fix is beyond description.
Oh so now it's ok to use them to make money and "Live our lives off their backs"?
Now now... how did this:
Using slaves for profit has it's (sick) logic
Translates to this:
Oh so now it's ok to use them to make money and "Live our lives off their backs"
Do you really need to resort to such twisting of my words?
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 17:53:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
Though I'm not sure what a hippy is. Are my hips too wide or something?
A claim like that by anyone would surely incur the wrath of many pod pilots 
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 18:28:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Shemar
Originally by: Pulgor
Originally by: Shemar
Using slaves for profit has it's (sick) logic, but using them so that the Amarr can get their regular power trippping fix is beyond description.
Oh so now it's ok to use them to make money and "Live our lives off their backs"?
Now now... how did this:
Using slaves for profit has it's (sick) logic
Translates to this:
Oh so now it's ok to use them to make money and "Live our lives off their backs"
Do you really need to resort to such twisting of my words?
I'd say it's a valid interpretation as you're like, "You're evil... but now you're MORE evil." Especially comming from someone who deals in absolutes.
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 18:29:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Aphoxema G
Aphoxema frowns.
Damnit, Pully. CONSENT TO THE GROUP HUG!
No
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Aphoxema G
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Posted - 2005.06.23 18:34:00 -
[100]
... *prepares a box*
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 18:51:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Aphoxema G
... *prepares a box*
Hey!
*Prepares a blaster*
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Aphoxema G
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Posted - 2005.06.23 19:22:00 -
[102]
*prepares the Exotic Dancers and holds up the box with an inquisitive frown*
Come on. Let's make'a deal...
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 19:24:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Aphoxema G
*prepares the Exotic Dancers and holds up the box with an inquisitive frown*
Come on. Let's make'a deal...
Okay, I'll do you a deal.
No wait... I forgot what the dispute was over again.
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 20:47:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Pulgor
I'd say it's a valid interpretation as you're like, "You're evil... but now you're MORE evil." Especially comming from someone who deals in absolutes.
Well, if it is a "valid" interpretation or not... I believe I am comfortable with allowing anyone who follows this thread to make their own conclusions.
Interestingly enough I never used the word "evil", or at least I do not remember using it. Evil would imply that you (you in this context is the Amarr culture and it's defenders, be it by weapon or words) are knowingly committing evil acts, which is something I never claimed.
I do believe that the Amarr culture in it's entirety is based on a combination of superstition and the systematic violation of personal freedom (and no I am not only talking about the slaves), and as such I regard it as contemptible. The foundation of that culture is the exertion of power over other individuals, using a number of justifications and excuses.
In the end, you are either violating the rights of others or you don't and in that yes, I deal in absolutes. That IS an absolute. There is no excuse or justification, there is no gray area.
However the notion that because I can clearly see black and white in this subject, I "deal in absolutes" (and notice that I keep your wording, not 'translate' it) in every issue is quite far fetched.
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.06.23 22:08:00 -
[105]
I for one welcome our new evil overlords....
...wait.
*The Cosmopolite winks, comfortable in the knowledge that he would be regarded as a fiend by most of the planetbound*
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction - CEO: Jade Constantine |
Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 22:34:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Shemar
Well, if it is a "valid" interpretation or not... I believe I am comfortable with allowing anyone who follows this thread to make their own conclusions.
So am I.
Originally by: Shemar
Interestingly enough I never used the word "evil", or at least I do not remember using it. Evil would imply that you (you in this context is the Amarr culture and it's defenders, be it by weapon or words) are knowingly committing evil acts, which is something I never claimed.
Do you believe slavery is evil? Keep in mind that wrong is a synonumn for evil. If so then I was correct in my interpretation.
Originally by: Shemar
I do believe that the Amarr culture in it's entirety is based on a combination of superstition and the systematic violation of personal freedom (and no I am not only talking about the slaves), and as such I regard it as contemptible. The foundation of that culture is the exertion of power over other individuals, using a number of justifications and excuses.
Looks like you just answered my above question, thanks =).
Originally by: Shemar
In the end, you are either violating the rights of others or you don't and in that yes, I deal in absolutes. That IS an absolute. There is no excuse or justification, there is no gray area.
Actually, the holders are not violating their slaves' rights. They just don't have any!  There's a difference. There are no universal rights and therefore if the slaves will not take them and we'll not give them, the slaves have none, right? right.
Originally by: Shemar
However the notion that because I can clearly see black and white in this subject, I "deal in absolutes" (and notice that I keep your wording, not 'translate' it) in every issue is quite far fetched.
I was only referring to this subject. Nice try using semantics to derail my points. It failed. Feel free to spin the wheel and try again though.
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.23 23:05:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Pulgor
Do you believe slavery is evil? Keep in mind that wrong is a synonumn for evil. If so then I was correct in my interpretation.
For you maybe, not for me. Wrong and evil are two very different things. Evil implies the intend to do wrong when you know it is wrong. Slavery is wrong, but only evil when the slaver actaully understands that it is wrong.
Originally by: Pulgor
Looks like you just answered my above question, thanks =).
Nope, but I just did
Originally by: Pulgor
Actually, the holders are not violating their slaves' rights. They just don't have any! There's a difference. There are no universal rights and therefore if the slaves will not take them and we'll not give them, the slaves have none, right? right.
Completely wrong. Every sentient being is born with a set of rights. That is a personal belief yes, but so is yours.
Originally by: Pulgor
I was only referring to this subject. Nice try using semantics to derail my points. It failed. Feel free to spin the wheel and try again though.
Hmm, care to explain how you indicated that in your post?
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.23 23:39:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Pulgor on 23/06/2005 23:40:18
You're doing it again, only now your using semantics to back up the semantics.
I'll play your game Shemar. =).
Originally by: Shemar
For you maybe, not for me. Wrong and evil are two very different things. Evil implies the intend to do wrong when you know it is wrong. Slavery is wrong, but only evil when the slaver actaully understands that it is wrong.
Well wouldn't anyone have to understand it's wrong because you told them so? The UK tend to operate on such a policy. They tell their victim slavery is wrong and then they execute them if they do not cease the practice. So following that logic you must believe what I do is evil. I don't see it that way but my views on the subject are of little consequence to you, I'm sure.
If this is untrue and you do not use UK logic, then please explain to me what exactly your thought pattern is because I cannot decern it. I will take the opportunity to revise the statement since you seem to care so much about it:
You're saying, "You're doing wrong things... but now they're MORE wrong." as opposed to my previous statement using "evil" as the word.
Originally by: Shemar
Nope, but I just did
Good, progress, lets sit back and have a java and admire all that we have accomplished!
Originally by: Shemar
Completely wrong. Every sentient being is born with a set of rights. That is a personal belief yes, but so is yours.
Right, but my belief is backed up by the laws of nature. Your belief is only true if people and societies choose to use it. To illistrate, if I kill someone they die. If they somehow didn't die because my reasoning for doing it was somehow flawed, then your beliefs would hold more water with me.
Originally by: Shemar
Hmm, care to explain how you indicated that in your post?
I just did.
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2005.06.24 00:04:00 -
[109]
Pulgor...
You are, by either direct action or by support are committing acts upon others that you wouldn't want done to yourself. Justifying it with abstract survival of the fittest rationalizations are what make you a sociopath. Unless of course you wouldn't mind being kidnapped, enslaved, beaten or even killed.
It doesn't take a genius or absolutism to realize most people wouldn't like those things done to them. Empathy, the part you lack, is where you realize doing something against someone's will wouldn't be right because you wouldn't want it done to yourself.
Is that really such a profound concept? Are we all so elitist that we can't see this? 
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.24 00:47:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
Pulgor...
You are, by either direct action or by support are committing acts upon others that you wouldn't want done to yourself. Justifying it with abstract survival of the fittest rationalizations are what make you a sociopath. Unless of course you wouldn't mind being kidnapped, enslaved, beaten or even killed.
It doesn't take a genius or absolutism to realize most people wouldn't like those things done to them. Empathy, the part you lack, is where you realize doing something against someone's will wouldn't be right because you wouldn't want it done to yourself.
Is that really such a profound concept? Are we all so elitist that we can't see this?
How will being an altrulist prevent me from being kidnapped, murdered, enslaved, killed?
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.24 00:54:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Pulgor
Right, but my belief is backed up by the laws of nature. Your belief is only true if people and societies choose to use it. To illistrate, if I kill someone they die. If they somehow didn't die because my reasoning for doing it was somehow flawed, then your beliefs would hold more water with me.
As I have said before, our main difference of opinion is that I believe everybody is born with the same rights (yes, because I choose to, not because nature or a silly god tells me) where you don't.
As Kaleigh superbly pointed out, you have no problem treating people in ways that you would not want to be treated yourself.
I agree... everything else is semantics.
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.24 01:02:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Pulgor
How will being an altrulist prevent me from being kidnapped, murdered, enslaved, killed?
Oh, come on! This is what you get out of Kaleigh's post?
How about "How will not being an altruist, not prevent you from being kidnapped, murdered, enslaved, killed? What kind of logic is that?
So you want a universe where everybody can do anything to anybody, as long as they have the power to do so? Do you really want that? Do you plan to never care about anyone not able to defend themselves? Never to have children? Good luck with that kind of life.
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.24 01:30:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Shemar
Oh, come on! This is what you get out of Kaleigh's post?
Well that's not really my fault. It didn't contain much substance now did it?
Originally by: Shemar
How about "How will not being an altruist, not prevent you from being kidnapped, murdered, enslaved, killed? What kind of logic is that?
Exactly, it won't, so there's no reason for me to bother right?
Originally by: Shemar
So you want a universe where everybody can do anything to anybody, as long as they have the power to do so? Do you really want that? Do you plan to never care about anyone not able to defend themselves? Never to have children? Good luck with that kind of life.
Universe is already like that, step on out of that nice protective little shell you seem to be living in and you'll see the universe is a pretty rough place. It has no room for alturlists.
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.24 02:19:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Pulgor
Well that's not really my fault. It didn't contain much substance now did it?
Let's just say that your inability (or unwillingness?) to find it says a lot about you.
Originally by: Pulgor
Universe is already like that, step on out of that nice protective little shell you seem to be living in and you'll see the universe is a pretty rough place. It has no room for alturlists.
The Universe is what we make of it. Based on the kind of Universe you choose to live in I can only say I feel sorry for you. 
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.06.24 02:26:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Pulgor on 24/06/2005 02:26:50
Originally by: Shemar
Let's just say that your inability (or unwillingness?) to find it says a lot about you.
Or maybe it wasn't there!
Originally by: Pulgor
The Universe is what we make of it. Based on the kind of Universe you choose to live in I can only say I feel sorry for you.
I wouldn't, atleast I don't have to prech to arrogent people like me all day =P.
Being an altrulist would make my life just as hard, wouldn't you say? Now suddenly I'm accountable to everyone because I have to help them all! Say... that reminds me, what have you hippys done for me, the working man lately!? Some alturalists, come here and question my way of life but offer nothing in return!
Atleast the Sisters of Eve would bring a care basket or something =P.
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Pulgor --- In service to Ubiqua Seraph and Sarum
Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.06.24 06:57:00 -
[116]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I find your adherence to outdated and orthodox scientific views puzzling but it is of no great moment to me, in all honesty. I assert my claims and you simply cannot disprove them nor can you say they conflict with our scientific milieu.
The Capsule and the Clone is less then a year old .
Still, without more scientific data,. both of us are just guessing whether or not our claims are correct. We'll have to have this debate another time, when the other two parts of the series have been released.
Acceptable?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.06.24 09:34:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Discorporation
The Capsule and the Clone is less then a year old .
The cloning technology it describes is at least 9 years old however and its application to capsules 3 years old (transneural scanners installed in capsules 2 years before the article was written). I have seen many scientific developments in the space of 3 years, the 'Technology II' revolution amongst them.
Quote:
Still, without more scientific data,. both of us are just guessing whether or not our claims are correct. We'll have to have this debate another time, when the other two parts of the series have been released.
Acceptable?
Discorp, I'm not in the habit of guessing whether the technology I use works or not. It does.
If you really want to debate this issue, I suggest it move to a GalNet channel with looser protocols than this one. I certainly agree neither of us are able to prove anything on this channel.
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction - CEO: Jade Constantine |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.06.24 09:36:00 -
[118]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Discorp, I'm not in the habit of guessing whether the technology I use works or not. It does.
If you really want to debate this issue, I suggest it move to a GalNet channel with looser protocols than this one. I certainly agree neither of us are able to prove anything on this channel.
The Cosmopolite
I take that as a yes. We'll wait till the 'other' channels are open again.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2005.06.24 09:41:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
You are, by either direct action or by support are committing acts upon others that you wouldn't want done to yourself. Justifying it with abstract survival of the fittest rationalizations are what make you a sociopath. Unless of course you wouldn't mind being kidnapped, enslaved, beaten or even killed.
Mrs. Doyle, could you please take your crusade to the pirates and alliances out in 0.0 space who do exactly that to me when I show up in 'their' territory or gate blockade? Maybe they listen to your never ending ramblings.
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Shemar
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Posted - 2005.06.24 11:08:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Pulgor
Being an altrulist would make my life just as hard, wouldn't you say? Now suddenly I'm accountable to everyone because I have to help them all! Say... that reminds me, what have you hippys done for me, the working man lately!? Some alturalists, come here and question my way of life but offer nothing in return!
Once again you fail to see the fundamental difference between helping others and not hurting them. I do not "preach" that anyone goes around helping everyone in need. I don't claim to be doing that myself. But at least I can say I am not hurting anyone either, unless it is in self defense. I do not treat anyone in a way that I would not like to be treated myself. I accept that I am no better than anybody else and I have no more rights than anybody else.
And the thing is... I am pretty sure I live a happier life than you. Because in the end... isn't that the point?
Trembling hands or nerves of steel, someone tell me what to feel. |
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