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Navy Scorpion VS. CNR for PvE

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Zmaychek2 Dragons1 Scorpion Road Industry 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 03:59:00 - [1] - Quote i'm allready flying CNR but i like Scorpion sexy look :) My question is whats the diference in 'real' life?
Fedimart Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2011.10.09 04:05:00 - [2] - Quote The simple answer is you get less DPS and more tank with the navy scorpion. I prefer the CNR myself but the scorpion can be a good choice for lower skilled pilots.
Fozzy Dorsai State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 04:12:00 - [3] - Quote I have both and typically fly my SNI when I'm not paying that much attention. Most of the time if I get distracted I have anywhere from minutes to hours to remember I'm playing the game. That said, the CNR will clear out a mission faster.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2011.10.09 04:17:00 - [4] - Quote CNR if you want gank. SNI if you want tank/cap stability. SNI with 4 bcs does the same dps as CNR with 3, but has better cap stability and far better tank. But then, CNR with cap booster gank fit will achieve dps that's not possible with SNI.
Leon Audacity 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 07:00:00 - [5] - Quote Like what Fed said, SNI is alot easier on lower SP players than a CNR would be due to the damage it can take. The SNI does look alot better tho looks wise.
Vizvayu Koga Angry Rabbits 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 07:13:00 - [6] - Quote From my experience: I'm a low SP pilot and the SNI works much better to me. The difference between DPS (RNI=little more DPS) wasn't nearly as big as the difference in tank (SNI=WAY more tank). So I choose what I consider a better ship overall, the SNI. Again, this is with my low skills.
stoicfaux 278	Posted - 2011.10.09 14:59:00 - [7] - Quote Comparisons Raw DPS * Missile DPS - CNR wins. 719 missile dps versus the SNI's 616. That's a 16.7% improvement. * Missile DPS + Drones - CNR wins. CNR+3xGardeII = 899 dps versus the SNI + 2xGardeII = 736 DPS. 22.1% improvement. * Long targeting range - Even. SNI has a natural112 km targeting range, CNR needs to use a Signal Amplier to reach 121 km, but the CNR has the extra low slot for the Signal Amp. Tank * Tank - SNI wins. With a CN XL booster + 3 hardeners + Heavy Cap Booster against 50% EM/50% Therm damage, the CNR gets 562 tank for 1m21s with 122 tank overall versus the SNI's 743 peak tank for 3m51s and 566 tank overall. Applied DPS: * 3x Rigor Rigs- Even. Both ships can mount equivalent rigs. * TPs - SNI wins. The SNI can mount 3 TPs versus the CNR's 1 TP. Fitting CPU - SNI wins SNI use 850 out of 984 whereas the CNR has 894 out of 918. The SNI has 134 CPU free versus 24 CPU. Powergrid - Even. Both have plenty of grid left over. Personal Conjecture If you are flying against big slow targets, such as Guristas, the CNR will probably do better since it's trivial to tank Guristas and one TP + Rigor rigs should max out damage on most targets. Against smaller, faster moving ships such as Angels, the SNI's three TPs will probably, maybe, produce more applied DPS than the CNR. Conclusion If you're flying a SNI over the CNR, then get a Tengu. If you're passive tanking the SNI, then use of them cap-stable, five launcher Tengus with a medium Pith-C booster would. Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
Fedimart Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2011.10.09 16:09:00 - [8] - Quote Honestly if you've been flying for less than three months a Drake would be the best choice. If properly fitted it has plenty of DPS and and more than enough tank. The biggest problem is newer pilots tend to fail fit their ships then complain how much they suck.
Vizvayu Koga Angry Rabbits 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 16:50:00 - [9] - Quote Fedimart wrote: Honestly if you've been flying for less than three months a Drake would be the best choice. If properly fitted it has plenty of DPS and and more than enough tank. The biggest problem is newer pilots tend to fail fit their ships then complain how much they suck. First of all you failed reading the OP original question. Second I'd like to see your Drake fit which reaches BS levels both in tank and DPS. Oh and BTW how much (in numbers) is "plenty of" and "more than enough" and for what exactly?
rodyas The Scope Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.10.09 16:51:00 - [10] - Quote "real" life: Smexy scorpion leaves you to find a hotter pilot, Raven leaves ya to find a higher SP pilot. Its still a brutal universe.

Zmaychek2 Dragons1 Scorpion Road Industry 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 17:56:00 - [11] - Quote [Raven Navy Issue, PvE] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior I x3 Warrior II x5 This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them)
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 40	Posted - 2011.10.09 18:14:00 - [12] - Quote Zmaychek2 Dragons1 wrote: [Raven Navy Issue, PvE] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior I x3 Warrior II x5 This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them) Gank fit CNR with 4 bcs, and full set of rigors. SNI with 4 bcs gives the same dps as CNR with 3 bcs, while having better cap stability and far better tank. CNR with fewer than 4 bcs aren't worth flying.
Vizvayu Koga Angry Rabbits 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 19:05:00 - [13] - Quote Goose99 wrote: Zmaychek2 Dragons1 wrote: [Raven Navy Issue, PvE] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior I x3 Warrior II x5 This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them) Gank fit CNR with 4 bcs, and full set of rigors. SNI with 4 bcs gives the same dps as CNR with 3 bcs, while having better cap stability and far better tank. CNR with fewer than 4 bcs aren't worth flying. Actually he is using 4 BCS (one is faction) but I agree that rigors may be a nice addition.
stoicfaux 278	Posted - 2011.10.09 19:20:00 - [14] - Quote bleep Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
Fedimart Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2011.10.09 20:27:00 - [15] - Quote Vizvayu Koga wrote: Fedimart wrote: Honestly if you've been flying for less than three months a Drake would be the best choice. If properly fitted it has plenty of DPS and and more than enough tank. The biggest problem is newer pilots tend to fail fit their ships then complain how much they suck. First of all you failed reading the OP original question. Second I'd like to see your Drake fit which reaches BS levels both in tank and DPS. Oh and BTW how much (in numbers) is "plenty of" and "more than enough" and for what exactly? I read and answered the OP in my first reply so how about you read the whole thread before trying to flame? The second reply was just a suggestion and might not even apply to the OP since I don't know his skills. As far as the Drake's tank it does have a battleship tank. This is comparing standard T2 level 4 mission fits. The EFT DPS is lower but this does not take the signature radius penalty of cruise missiles into account. EFT is a good benchmark but actually using the ship is the only way to truly see how it works.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 40	Posted - 2011.10.09 20:44:00 - [16] - Quote Vizvayu Koga wrote: Goose99 wrote: Zmaychek2 Dragons1 wrote: [Raven Navy Issue, PvE] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior I x3 Warrior II x5 This fit is quite good for me but im thinkig to change Rigs, also with TP and Drones i dont have need for Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I (i understand that they are for smaller targets or they have effect on all, because EFT doesnt show DPS change with and without them) Gank fit CNR with 4 bcs, and full set of rigors. SNI with 4 bcs gives the same dps as CNR with 3 bcs, while having better cap stability and far better tank. CNR with fewer than 4 bcs aren't worth flying. Actually he is using 4 BCS (one is faction) but I agree that rigors may be a nice addition. I fail at reading. But yeah, why rf?
Zmaychek2 Dragons1 Scorpion Road Industry 0	Posted - 2011.10.09 20:54:00 - [17] - Quote same bonus and lower demands, i have it from my old drake before i trained for T2 module
stoicfaux 278	Posted - 2011.10.09 20:55:00 - [18] - Quote A 3 TP SNI with Rigor II + 2xFlare IIs performs almost as well as a CNR with 1 TP and RigorII, RigorI, + Flare II against a smattering of Angel ships. Skills V and 5% damage and 5% rof implants. The only real differences are: a) the SNI normally takes an extra volley to kill Angel battleships, and b) the SNI can almost get away with using Fury on cruisers. A CNR would require 6 volleys to kill a Arch Gistum Marauder with Fury, but only 4 volleys with T1 ammo. A SNI requires 5 Fury and 4 T1 volleys. Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
TuxedoMask Viziam Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2011.10.09 23:15:00 - [19] - Quote I use a SNI and I love it. She has 8 mids which is ideal for tanking and with my skills i can get her to 747dps. my friend has the CNR because of the extra launcher, but I'd tank more tank vs. 1 launcher any day
Dr Cedric Orbital Industry and Research. 5	Posted - 2011.10.10 01:48:00 - [20] - Quote I'd say the other major point to look at is what YOU like to fly. I spend 18 months in a Standard Raven and all i could think was "I can't wait to get out of this hunk and into something better looking." I then went on to Rattler before CCP nerfed it to a drone boat. Now I stick w/ the SNI because it looks shiney, does enough dps to finish a lvl 4 mission, has enough tank that I can not be terrified that I'm going to lose my 1Bil isk worth of fittings if I forget a trigger, and because I have spare room to fit an 100MN AB II, which I just prefer. So, in a nutshell, fly which one seems "better" to you, regardless of what EFT or Forum Warriors say! Ced

Lemok Sonji Little Miss Duck 0	Posted - 2011.10.10 05:05:00 - [21] - Quote "hijaking the thread", I have similar question. I have crap low skills as I was focusing on the drake passive tanking, so my cap stability isn't very... well... stable like (I'm getting 2m 41sec from EFT on the SNI). I can afford the SNI or the CNR, but as I understand, my skills won't really allow me to fly the raven or CNR due to cap skills (still learning them to rank 3s). So should I jump to the SNI now and start doing L4s or keep on learning skills? Cheers.
Fedimart Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2011.10.10 05:47:00 - [22] - Quote Lemok Sonji wrote: "hijaking the thread", I have similar question. I have crap low skills as I was focusing on the drake passive tanking, so my cap stability isn't very... well... stable like (I'm getting 2m 41sec from EFT on the SNI). I can afford the SNI or the CNR, but as I understand, my skills won't really allow me to fly the raven or CNR due to cap skills (still learning them to rank 3s). So should I jump to the SNI now and start doing L4s or keep on learning skills? Cheers. I would train more cap/shield skills and stick with the Drake. This is a decent fitting and change the hardeners for whatever the incoming damage of the mission is [Drake, Mission Drake] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I If you must fly a SNI try something like this. Yes DPS will be low but it will have decent tank. If this isn't real close to cap stable look at the drake fitting above. [Scorpion Navy Issue, SNI Cap Stable] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Lemok Sonji Little Miss Duck 0	Posted - 2011.10.10 06:14:00 - [23] - Quote Thanks for the suggestions. I am flying a similar drake fitting you suggested (except 1 more power relay over over BCS for higher passive tank) running L3s with ease. I just don't want to put too many points in heavy missiles and passive tanking, when I can start training for active tanking. As I can already do L4s, it seems a shame not to start skilling for it The suggested SNI you offered seems to be cap drained in 21m, so I guess its decent enough as a tank for the most part. When I get home I will put it in EFT along with my skills to get a better look. From my stats I get about 340 tank dps and 140 missile dps since my skills are pretty low still. Does that seems ok for starting with L4s? Its a bit more than what I get from the drake.
Zoe Alarhun Drunken Space Irish 24	Posted - 2011.10.10 06:26:00 - [24] - Quote High Slots: 6x Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile 1x Small Tractor Beam I Mid Slots: 1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 3x Mission Specific Hardeners 1x Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter Low Slots: 4x Ballistic Control System II 1x Damage Control II Rig Slots: 3x Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Downgrade to T1 what your skills don't allow. Use cap boosters for your tank and only run it when needed. Maximum damage and fast mission completion time. So many fail fits in this thread it's insane.
Lemok Sonji Little Miss Duck 0	Posted - 2011.10.10 07:13:00 - [25] - Quote Zoe, is that a scorpion or a raven? Since CNR can fit another launcher and SNI can fit more into mid slot. Or its just a normal raven?
stoicfaux 278	Posted - 2011.10.10 14:11:00 - [26] - Quote If you want to maximize your SNI's gank while still having a better tank than the CNR, then this is what I would shoot for. Use Flares instead of Rigors because you have three TPs (1 TP is approximately equal to two Rigor Is.) If your skills are weak, then replace 1-2 TPs with more shield hardeners or a shield boost amplifier (and swap one of the Flares for a Rigor.) If T2 rigs are too expensive, then use T1s. I believe you can get a Pith XL booster which is cheaper than the CN XL. The 4th CN BCU can be swapped for a BCU II for a tiny (insignificant) loss of DPS. Swap hardeners to match the mission NPCs. [Scorpion Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Hobgoblin II x5 Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
Zoe Alarhun Drunken Space Irish 24	Posted - 2011.10.10 15:56:00 - [27] - Quote Sorry - yeah it's a raven. Start with that, then upgrade to CNR when you are familiar with Burst tanking.
Obsidiana White-Noise 8	Posted - 2011.10.11 23:32:00 - [28] - Quote I sometimes use it on missions where there is a lot of EWar. It has a longer base range and a higher sensor strength. Oh ya, two more medium slots and a bonus allowing the sacrafice a third. (note: less cap & less damage)
Caleidascope Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.12 01:37:00 - [29] - Quote When I started L4, I went straight for Raven, then Navy Raven. I should have gone to Navy Scorpion after Raven, it would have been perfect. After that you can decide if you want to stay with Navy Scorp or upgrade to Navy Raven. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first!


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