Who is this mythical independent small alliance Mynna is concerned about

How about we remove every ship in the game except for Noobships and have a spaceship shooty game that depends on actual pilot skill instead of trained skills. No wait, that too would cause nothing but butthurt.

Mynnna speaks from experience in a sov-holding null-sec alliance.
OP speaks from experience gained from a Youtube video.
Mynnna is an obvious member of a sov-holding null-sec alliance.
OP is a member of a high-sec NPC corp.

OP is speaking a little bit out of their league.

Black Legion, 401k, Bora Alis and XXPizzaXx living deep in the heart of Venal are a few. How you gonna do them like that?

So if a cyno had a mass limit of only 2 carries no Super carrier or Titan could jump? Only 1 Dread could cyno at a time.

Let start with a good part of his article. He is correct that nerfing Jump drive calibration alone will make 0.0 space trade harder, and I agree this is not a desirable outcome.

look at what is being said.

Sorry, but 0.0 shouldn't use Jita as a shopping mall. 0.0 should rely on their own industry; of course for that to happen other changes need to come as well. None are however going to be of any value when going to Jita and filling up your JF is a simple task for the individual.

Non of them holds significant sov.

Mynnna speaks from experience in a sov-holding null-sec alliance.
OP speaks from experience gained from a Youtube video.
Mynnna is an obvious member of a sov-holding null-sec alliance.
OP is a member of a high-sec NPC corp.

OP is speaking a little bit out of their league.

I did. You propose balancing via ISK, which is not only a terrible idea but also affects the small guys more than the big guys.

First fallacy is red herring of discussing exclusively how jump mechanics will affect solitary trading and supply jump freighters when actual need for change comes from excessive ease of deploying massive blobs of combat capitals and super capitals.

Second is that nerfing of jump drive mechanics could not be done in a way that would not affect typical way jump fighters are used. This is incorrect, there is no reason why default jump freighter jump rage could not be increased to compensate for jump calibration nerf.

Third is that this will hurt small 0.0 sov entities most. This is laughable as there is no such thing left in all of eve sov 0.0. We have 4 coalitions in sov 0.0, CFC, HBC+N3, Soalr block and smallest Porvi block. Who is this mythical independent small alliance Mynna is concerned about? Frankly it is ridiculous that representatives of big blocks are concocting in existence fictitious entities to justify preservation of patently broken mechanics they benefit from.

Forth fallacy is that big coalitions can simply compensate for significant jump mechanic changes with their superior numbers. This is possible, but only to a small extent. If nerf is small like one he discussed in his article (reducing benefit form jump drive calibration) he is right. But this is why nerf has to be more hard hitting.

For example if there was a mass limit on of say 2 carriers per cyno then that carrier blob in the video above would have to have something like 400 cyno alts ready in position! That is over 120 accounts costing something like 70 billion isk a month to maintain and would be severe drain even on wealthiest alliances. ( What is goon budget now-days? 500B? Even they would think twice if they want to maintain fleet of 120 cyno accounts at the cost of ~15% of their budget). Even bigger problem is managing that many alts at the same time in a coordinated fashion without excessive workload and burnout of pilots, FC and directors.

But limit of 2 carriers per cyno would in no way affect reasonable use of carriers like deployment of triage pair, like R&K does. So it is exactly the opposite of what Myonna suggests, it is very much possible to change jump drive mechanic in a way to limit big entities while leaving smaller entities unaffected, or only marginally affected.

So if a cyno had a mass limit of only 2 carries no Super carrier or Titan could jump? Only 1 Dread could cyno at a time.

How is that not a desirable outcome?

Sorry, but 0.0 shouldn't use Jita as a shopping mall. 0.0 should rely on their own industry; of course for that to happen other changes need to come as well. None are however going to be of any value when going to Jita and filling up your JF is a simple task for the individual.

We would build more than your hundred man corp.


What part of that is so difficult for you guys to grasp.

Where is a small group, with very limited sov, holding 10 titans?

Either you work with others or you don't. If you don't, you pay for that by losing your sov.
And in the end, it's working with other people that allows you to move easily across space. Whether it's being done with a titan bridge, a JF, or having to do every hop one at a time. If you're working with others your getting to your destination easier, and keeping your space safer, than by beig a belligerent **** to all of your neighbors.

No large entity in null exists because one group forced others to play with them.

The day ABC + M ores stop making their way up there, is the day high sec goes to **** in a handbasket.
As for the cyno talk, listen, when your defending space from multiple entry points you need the ability to field ships (carriers) & supplies (jump freighters). The longer the range the better!

I am not sure if you are attacking my post or just sperging. I never said I was for it just pointing out how the OP suggested 2 carriers mass to a cyno. It would not be feasible.

While a lot of people are nitpicking the 2 carrier limit per cyno, I don't think the heart of the idea is completely off. It is rather bizarre that a solitary frigate with <500 units of liquid ozone can summon totalhelldeth to a specific point in space.

I think to "correct" this force-projection issue, the OP is correct and it should be by changing the amount of ships not the distance. While exploitable, a limit on the number of cynos active in one system could be a fix, a spool-up timer could be a fix, a reasonable mass limit could be a fix, different sized cynos with different fuel req's and timers could be a fix... there are tons of ideas there, especially when combined at various levels... maybe I'll weigh the pro's and cons in my own crap blog this week.

Any reasonable change CCP would make would be only a minimal burden to large organizations. ]

You, like the OP, are doing exactly what the article the OP is rebutting was addressing.

WE would build more titans to move more people.
NO limit would hurt us, it would hurt YOU.

If it took 2 extra titans to do it, that's what we would do.

Then there's the issue of,
What if the smaller guy can also build more. Now you've got a nerf that did NOTHING.


The very root of the issue comes down to numbers, and ability. You guys simply ignore this and think that some magical nerf will put smaller groups on par with big ones.

It's not a titan brige network because of how far they allow you to go, or how many you can send through on a single jump, it's a netwrok because we WORK WITH OTHERS. It doesn't matter what you do to them, as long as people are working together they can get around it.

Reducing the number of ships that can move on a single jump just means more titans.
But you guys ignore that.