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A topic of some confusion: ISK Sink

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Veronica Kerrigan Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 70	Posted - 2013.01.20 06:17:00 - [1] - Quote In recent weeks there has been lots of talk about ISK sinks and faucets, and I noticed a strange misconception about the amount of ISK in the game at any given time. Misconception 1: Buying PLEX decreased the amount of ISK/ Selling PLEX generates ISK One of the wonderful things about a player driven market is that ISK coming out of my wallet goes into someone else's wallet, minus taxes applied. This means that even though PLEX are bought with real money, the ISK used to purchase them was created somewhere else in the game, and is being transferred into the seller's account. This means that, in terms of the amount of ISK ingame, it is as much a sink as buying a rattler, because of the transaction tax. Misconception 2: Destroying ships is an ISK sink. This is completely false. The destruction of a ship is an ISK faucet, because of the insurance payout. It is a material sink, taking away the minerals used to produce it, which leads into my third misconception. Mining is an ISK faucet This is not as wrong as it could be. Many people think that the miner directly generates ISK, through the act of mining, which is of course not true as the minerals are being sold on the player driven market. It is true however, that ISK is produced when the minerals mined are made into a ship, and that ship is lost. Because very few miners actually refine AND build, AND lose ships all on the same character, it is unlikely that they are actually being given ISK directly for the minerals they mined, and if they do, it isn't very much. This may be a little bit ranty, but it was bugging me, so I thought I would make a post explaining many of the problem I have found with people's understanding of the game. Feel free to correct if I have made a mistake, and add any wisdom of your own.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession 309	Posted - 2013.01.20 08:40:00 - [2] - Quote 3 FW is an ISK faucet (or any LP store) 4. Carebears are necessary / beneficial for the ecosystem of the game (People who create content are the limiting factor, not the people who build the stuff)
Jake Warbird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2141	Posted - 2013.01.20 08:42:00 - [3] - Quote 5. GD is constructive.
Whitehound 406	Posted - 2013.01.20 09:20:00 - [4] - Quote An ISK sink can be many things, it depends on your point of view. If you only look at the entire economy as a whole and the underlying game mechanics then taxes and fees are ISK sinks. If you are a corporation and have your own little economy going then your ship replacement program can be an ISK sink. It is a matter of what you define as an ISK sink for yourself and what it means to you. Personally, anyone who only ever bases their arguments on the entirety of the economy cannot be taken serious. It is like talking to a dev's parrot.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 934	Posted - 2013.01.20 09:30:00 - [5] - Quote Whitehound wrote: An ISK sink can be many things, it depends on your point of view. If you only look at the entire economy as a whole and the underlying game mechanics then taxes and fees are ISK sinks. If you are a corporation and have your own little economy going then your ship replacement program can be an ISK sink. It is a matter of what you define as an ISK sink for yourself and what it means to you. Personally, anyone who only ever bases their arguments on the entirety of the economy cannot be taken serious. It is like talking to a dev's parrot. 6. This post because holy **** "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 3960	Posted - 2013.01.20 09:33:00 - [6] - Quote Whitehound wrote: An ISK sink can be many things, it depends on your point of view. If you only look at the entire economy as a whole and the underlying game mechanics then taxes and fees are ISK sinks. If you are a corporation and have your own little economy going then your ship replacement program can be an ISK sink. It is a matter of what you define as an ISK sink for yourself and what it means to you. Personally, anyone who only ever bases their arguments on the entirety of the economy cannot be taken serious. It is like talking to a dev's parrot. Choice of perspective doesn't really come into it. When you use words like sinks and faucets in an MMO it's commonly understood, that you're talking about the entire economy. They aren't EVE specific terms, but common words understood by everyone discussing MMO economies. On any other level within the game words like income and expenses are common to describe loss and gain of currency.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6416	Posted - 2013.01.20 09:38:00 - [7] - Quote Whitehound wrote: An ISK sink can be many things, it depends on your point of view. If you only look at the entire economy as a whole and the underlying game mechanics then taxes and fees are ISK sinks. If you are a corporation and have your own little economy going then your ship replacement program can be an ISK sink. It is a matter of what you define as an ISK sink for yourself and what it means to you. Personally, anyone who only ever bases their arguments on the entirety of the economy cannot be taken serious. It is like talking to a dev's parrot. Wrong. Using terms like "ISK sink" or "ISK faucet" to refer to things that neither add ISK to the economy not remove ISK from the economy is incorrect regardless of your "point of view" as they are not relative terms. Using them like that only confuses the less informed. ~a proud belligerent undesirable~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 112	Posted - 2013.01.20 10:19:00 - [8] - Quote For most, practical, purposes the nomenclature is incorrect. Of all of the capsuleer professions only mission running/ratting actually generate real ISK for the one putting in the effort - however almost everything we do can generate value (on the primary level for mining, salvaging, certain types of exploration...etc; the secondary or even tertiary level for such things as trading). In most cases this value can be translated directly into ISK, which leads to the confusion. If, instead of ISK Sinks/Faucets, we were to discuss things in terms of Value Sinks/Faucets and abandon the idea that ISK is the only thing we needed to think about then things would become a lot more instinctive, much easier for people to understand. Take, for example, the (currently) problem of ship destruction: In a purely ISK generation sense it is indeed a faucet (though the insurance itself should be considered an inefficient sink) but the player experiences it in terms that they had a ship worth thirty million ISK and now they have a fraction of that in liquid ISK, a net loss. Considered in value instead the ship loss is indeed a net sink (excepting cases like the old insurance fraud, where the value is defined purely by the insurance value and therefore the destruction is precisely equal to the insurance payout). Considered in value mining is, indeed a faucet. Things enter the economy from nowhere (and if we were to delete all ISK and move to a barter economy, mining (including moon mining) would almost certainly be the largest faucets we'd have to consider). Talking in terms of value rather than ISK means that any time any item (including ISK) enters the game from nowhere, we have a faucet. Dupe exploits like the POS one and so forth are also a faucet and thinking in those terms can be helpful. Meanwhile, at any time an item is deleted from the game, disappearing into nowhere, we have a sink. If i park a Hurricane near an asteroid and shoot it then each round of ammunition (representing small units of value) is sunk out of the game (while in terms of ISK there is absolutely no effect - the only ISK sunk or generated in the entire lifetime of the ammunition is lost to the original blueprint purchase, the research (if any) and the sales taxes (again, if any)).
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 2957	Posted - 2013.01.20 10:41:00 - [9] - Quote Whitehound wrote: An ISK sink can be many things, it depends on your point of view. From the perspective of an individual or corporation, there are only income and expenses. Using the term "ISK sink" or "ISK faucet" in any other context than the entire game economy is a mistake. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Skorpynekomimi 380	Posted - 2013.01.20 10:46:00 - [10] - Quote But PLEX IS an isk sink. You buy it, then when it's converted to game time, the value is taken out of the market.
Implying Implications GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 293	Posted - 2013.01.20 10:58:00 - [11] - Quote Skorpynekomimi wrote: But PLEX IS an isk sink. You buy it, then when it's converted to game time, the value is taken out of the market. The isk is sitting in the sellers wallet. püåpüÉpüàn+P
Brooks Puuntai Solar Nexus. 1045	Posted - 2013.01.20 11:16:00 - [12] - Quote Skorpynekomimi wrote: But PLEX IS an isk sink. You buy it, then when it's converted to game time, the value is taken out of the market. The value isn't removed from the market, its just moved to someone else. That's why it's not a sink.
Eric Ryan The Scope Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.01.20 11:24:00 - [13] - Quote Skorpynekomimi wrote: But PLEX IS an isk sink. You buy it, then when it's converted to game time, the value is taken out of the market. Using PLEX to sub acc is PLEX sink. ISK stays in-game.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 112	Posted - 2013.01.20 11:47:00 - [14] - Quote PLEX is a Stirling, or a Dollar, or a Euro, Yen, Yuan, Dong or Icelandic Krona sink - and only in that last example is it an ISK sink. (though, of course, not in the conventional sense). Real world money funds PLEX, real world money which we give to CCP or real world money which they give "us" in the case of tournament prizes...etc. The PLEX, once created, simply moves ISK around the game economy and when it is destroyed or used to fund someone's game time or monocle habit, CCP provide the service which was originally paid for.

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