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Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
41
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Posted - 2013.01.21 14:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Planned obsolescence is the practice of building things with foreknowledge that they will wear out. It equates to a maintenance and replacement cost over time.
GÇ£ThatGÇÖs horrible idea, I donGÇÖt want my ships to wear out!GÇ¥
Consider though the market possibilities of using a ship for a few months and selling it cheap to some new guy. He gets a leg up into a bigger boat and you can buy a new one at half cost.
Salvage could be fleshed out to be a little more interesting. Maybe rather than having upkeep be 100% npc sink, noctis pilots could have an upkeep option. It would be a lot of fun if the repairs required some of the cheaper salvage components, just to give them some more value and meaning.
Mechanics like this encourage player to player interaction without forcing it on anyone, and they create an atmosphere that is less agreeable to bots.
This isnGÇÖt an option that results in shiny new toys, but it would lend greatly to the feeling that Eve is a gritty dark world. For myself that feeling is worth more than all the carnival rides and WiS candy on the interweb.
Thanks for your time in consideration of this idea.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1082
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Posted - 2013.01.21 14:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
As an idea, your post is not in the correct forums to attract the type of attention it would otherwise have in the Ideas Forum. I will comment about your idea once this thread has been moved there.
o7
Personnel Division Director --áBene Gesserit Chapterhouse
"The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another." - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Zol Interbottom
Nanotrasen Inc
134
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Posted - 2013.01.21 14:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
I thought I was playing dystopian libertarian space soap, not capitalist money grab |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12763
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Posted - 2013.01.21 14:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zol Interbottom wrote:I thought I was playing dystopian libertarian space soap, not capitalist money grab Is there a difference? Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
42
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 14:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:As an idea, your post is not in the correct forums to attract the type of attention it would otherwise have in the Ideas Forum. I will comment about your idea once this thread has been moved there.
o7
I don't want to discuss specific implementation, only to get a general feel for the idea. It will be more fruitful to discuss specifics once it becomes clear what people would like to see from such a thing.
I look forward to discussing things more there.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Zol Interbottom
Nanotrasen Inc
134
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Posted - 2013.01.21 14:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Zol Interbottom wrote:I thought I was playing dystopian libertarian space soap, not capitalist money grab Is there a difference?
I do what I want in space libertarianism, I don't have no government regulation telling me that I have to make ships last a certain amount of time at minimum or maximum, what happens when someone is injured in an accident or I blow them up when they buy it off me?
I could be sued by space lawyers at space court |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
1923
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 14:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Moving to Features & Ideas Discussion. Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
314
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Posted - 2013.01.21 17:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's a neat idea, but the issue is not in terms of RP or lore or isk sinks, it's in the monotony and tediousness of having do to something before you can do what you want to do. Any regular logistics activity rapidly changes from a neat feature to a chore to a source of anger, see Planetary Interaction or Starbase Management. DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
44
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 17:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:It's a neat idea, but the issue is not in terms of RP or lore or isk sinks, it's in the monotony and tediousness of having do to something before you can do what you want to do. Any regular logistics activity rapidly changes from a neat feature to a chore to a source of anger, see Planetary Interaction or Starbase Management.
well really the whole game seems like a chore sometimes. Its just that many of the current chores are solo in nature. It would be neat to have some more dynamic options.
Say the first 30% of wear and tear have no adverse affects. A pilot is flying around at 25% and a noctis shows up in system and advertises mobile repairs in local at 50% station rates. Its kind of a fun interaction that saves some isk for anyone who flags him down.
On the other side, if people don't want to be bothered maybe they can just set up automatic repair programs for their ships. In that way the isk gets sinked. I'm all for more sinks and faucets in the economy. ISK flow just feels really static lately.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Drop Forged Trifectas Syndicate
221
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Posted - 2013.02.16 15:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
So long as you have to use metal scraps to repair the ship, I'm game. In Eve Online, no matter how hard you fight, you deserve nothing...you are entitled to nothing.-á In the end you will lose it all, because this is Eve Online. |
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Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 15:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:So long as you have to use metal scraps to repair the ship, I'm game. You somehow look like a scrap metal tycoon.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Skorpynekomimi
447
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 15:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
So, this is just creating a sink for nanite paste and some salvage. |
Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 16:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:So, this is just creating a sink for nanite paste and some salvage.
The term "Sink" in Eve means something that removes ISK from the game; NPC taxes and fee's, clone costs, ISK spent in LP stores. If there were ship maintanence costs payable to NPC stations that ISK would also be "sinked". If you pay a pilot in a Noctis to perform the maintenence then that money is just circulated in the game.
Ship maintanence set up this way would be a great sink and at the same time create a new career path for people. Just another in game option for interaction is all. And a market for all the worthless scrap would be interesting.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
He said a sink for nanite paste and salvage, not ISK.
The answer to his question is "Yes." |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
350
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 18:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Planned obsolescence is the practice of building things with foreknowledge that they will wear out. It equates to a maintenance and replacement cost over time.
GÇ£ThatGÇÖs horrible idea, I donGÇÖt want my ships to wear out!GÇ¥
Consider though the market possibilities of using a ship for a few months and selling it cheap to some new guy. He gets a leg up into a bigger boat and you can buy a new one at half cost.
Salvage could be fleshed out to be a little more interesting. Maybe rather than having upkeep be 100% npc sink, noctis pilots could have an upkeep option. It would be a lot of fun if the repairs required some of the cheaper salvage components, just to give them some more value and meaning.
Mechanics like this encourage player to player interaction without forcing it on anyone, and they create an atmosphere that is less agreeable to bots.
This isnGÇÖt an option that results in shiny new toys, but it would lend greatly to the feeling that Eve is a gritty dark world. For myself that feeling is worth more than all the carnival rides and WiS candy on the interweb.
Thanks for your time in consideration of this idea.
Maybe im misunderstanding some mechanic in your post, but id have to disagree.
I live in a C6, you know how often we get acess to k-space in an area thats actually USABLE for supplies? (hint hin, middle of nullsec isnt where were going to send our haulers). when your talking 150+ active players, NONE FO WHICH can dock in the system they ar ein everyday, it would get to the point in wormhoels where YOU DIDNT LOG ON UNLESS THERES A CTA. since logging on at any other time would be burning your ship.
so yeah, not supported, dont want another 15 hours of cycling statics every week just to bring IN haulers full of salvage. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 18:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
A brief derailment:
I'd like to see outposts in W-space. Destructible outposts, but nonetheless. |
Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: Maybe im misunderstanding some mechanic in your post, but id have to disagree.
I live in a C6, you know how often we get acess to k-space in an area thats actually USABLE for supplies? (hint hin, middle of nullsec isnt where were going to send our haulers). when your talking 150+ active players, NONE FO WHICH can dock in the system they ar ein everyday, it would get to the point in wormhoels where YOU DIDNT LOG ON UNLESS THERES A CTA. since logging on at any other time would be burning your ship.
so yeah, not supported, dont want another 15 hours of cycling statics every week just to bring IN haulers full of salvage.
The point of ship degradation over time is to create an NPC sink that could also be tapped by properly skilled and equipped players. I had not considered people who live deep in W-space, TY for posting. I think it should be a minor sink and one that is easily overcome, as someone else pointed out it could become very onerous over time. There is no reason that POS docking bays couldn't have an auto maintenance function the same way that NPC stations would.
And someone in your corp would still have the option of skilling a noctis up to the point where they could do the repairs for cheaper using salvage material.
I think CCP is going to reduce clone costs for high SP characters soon. And so the ship maintenance sink could help to even that out.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:He said a sink for nanite paste and salvage, not ISK.
The answer to his question is "Yes."
EDIT: That being said, while this is an interesting idea and a clever way to give more value to nanite paste/salvage pieces, I agree that it would be annoying to start with, become a chore, and then just result in ships being allowed to rot and blow up.
Not to mention that there'd need to be a huge revision to the market to allow for the sale of "Pre-owned ships".
God-awful annoying routine maintenance is for cars. Let's leave it out of spaceships that are supposedly already swimming in repair nanites and fully-automated diagnostic/maintenance systems.
I've never heard the term "sink" in Eve used outside of ISK sink. is the only reason I commented on that.
Re: irritating after a time, yes I agree. there should be a completely automated way to overcome this degradation, but it should be expensive enough that a trained noctis pilot could do it cheaper than the NPC mechanics and still make some ISK for himself.
As it stands right now Eve has a few big ways to remove ISK from the game, I think a little more diversification in that area would make things like buying new clones less expensive.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
republic military tax avoiders
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:I've never heard the term "sink" in Eve used outside of ISK sink. is the only reason I commented on that.
Re: irritating after a time, yes I agree. there should be a completely automated way to overcome this degradation, but it should be expensive enough that a trained noctis pilot could do it cheaper than the NPC mechanics and still make some ISK for himself.
As it stands right now Eve has a few big ways to remove ISK from the game, I think a little more diversification in that area would make things like buying new clones less expensive.
If this system is ever going to go live - prices for salvage needed for maintenance will skyrocket to the point where there is no profit between station/noctis maintenance. So unless noctis pilot gets those salvage parts himself he wont get any profit and even then it'll be more profitable to just sell those @ market - less hassle. |
Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote: If this system is ever going to go live - prices for salvage needed for maintenance will skyrocket to the point where there is no profit between station/noctis maintenance. So unless noctis pilot gets those salvage parts himself he wont get any profit and even then it'll be more profitable to just sell those @ market - less hassle.
I'm sure that the good folks at CCP can balance those requirements; either by requiring small ammounts of salvage for the repairs or by seeding more junk. Who knows it might make looting level 2's a good passtime for bored noctis pilots. And actually the price will never go above the cost of maintenance at NPC bays. I think we will see a small and easily controlled rise in the scrap market. That sort of thing is probably a good economy management tool for CCP.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
16
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote: If this system is ever going to go live - prices for salvage needed for maintenance will skyrocket to the point where there is no profit between station/noctis maintenance. So unless noctis pilot gets those salvage parts himself he wont get any profit and even then it'll be more profitable to just sell those @ market - less hassle.
I'm sure that the good folks at CCP can balance those requirements; either by requiring small ammounts of salvage for the repairs or by seeding more junk. Who knows it might make looting level 2's a good passtime for bored noctis pilots. And actually the price will never go above the cost of maintenance at NPC bays. I think we will see a small and easily controlled rise in the scrap market. That sort of thing is probably a good economy management tool for CCP.
Just to point out, as a pilot who routinely runs Lv2 missions just because they're there and I enjoy playing with Destroyers..
..Lv2 missions are pretty bad sources for salvage. Lv3s are okay though. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
906
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 05:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Planned obsolescence is the practice of building things with foreknowledge that they will wear out. It equates to a maintenance and replacement cost over time.
You mean like this? EvE Forum Bingo |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Drop Forged Trifectas Syndicate
222
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 14:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:So long as you have to use metal scraps to repair the ship, I'm game. You somehow look like a scrap metal tycoon.
Nah, just someone who thinks that the nerfs that resulted in the vast increase in metal scraps should have an actual in-game purpose. You know, instead of being a big FU to players who took the time and effort to train the skills to ply their trade. In Eve Online, no matter how hard you fight, you deserve nothing...you are entitled to nothing.-á In the end you will lose it all, because this is Eve Online. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 18:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote: Maybe im misunderstanding some mechanic in your post, but id have to disagree.
I live in a C6, you know how often we get acess to k-space in an area thats actually USABLE for supplies? (hint hin, middle of nullsec isnt where were going to send our haulers). when your talking 150+ active players, NONE FO WHICH can dock in the system they ar ein everyday, it would get to the point in wormhoels where YOU DIDNT LOG ON UNLESS THERES A CTA. since logging on at any other time would be burning your ship.
so yeah, not supported, dont want another 15 hours of cycling statics every week just to bring IN haulers full of salvage.
The point of ship degradation over time is to create an NPC sink that could also be tapped by properly skilled and equipped players. I had not considered people who live deep in W-space, TY for posting. I think it should be a minor sink and one that is easily overcome, as someone else pointed out it could become very onerous over time. There is no reason that POS docking bays couldn't have an auto maintenance function the same way that NPC stations would. And someone in your corp would still have the option of skilling a noctis up to the point where they could do the repairs for cheaper using salvage material. I think CCP is going to reduce clone costs for high SP characters soon. And so the ship maintenance sink could help to even that out.
Unless that Noctis could repair inside a POS shield (unlikely, since logi boats don't logi inside POS shields and for good reason) then there's no point in using it. I would be quite happy if we gained the ability to repair things in general at a POS, but right now we don't even have that. I wouldn't assume that any other repair would be available at a POS.
Even if we could repair, it's one more thing we'd have to keep hauling in. Even if we did get the salvage we need from w-space, it would probably be more efficient to sell ours and buy in bulk. No matter how you paint it, it's one more piece of logistics that someone will have to handle, and for no good reason. |
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