EVE Search - Energy Systems Operation *NOT* Bugged

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Athan	Posted - 2003.07.12 04:26:00 - [1] I kept on hearing people moaning about the Energy Systems Operation skill being bugged. Well at the very least it isn't with 1114. I just spent about an hour (had to train some skills) testing this. It was with a Gallenta character, using a Velator. Engineering 1, no ESO skill listed as 100 cap, 75s recharge on fitting/show info 31.4 to 90.x 32s 1.840625 cap/s Engineering 1, ESO at 1 skill listed as 100 cap, 71.25s recharge 32.0 to 89.2 29s 1.9724137931 cap/s 31.6 to 90.x 30s 1.9566666666 cap/s 32.7 to 90.3 30s 1.9200000000 cap/s 31.9 to 90.4 30.5s 1.9180327868 cap/s Now, 32 * 0.95 (i.e. 5% less recharge time) is 30.4. The average of the above is 29.875, but note they're all slightly less cap recharged. I've put the average cap/s for each, and you can see it is consistently higher after I trained ESO to 1. I'm now going to train ESO to 2 on this char to check again. -Ath -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery
Athan Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2003.07.12 04:26:00 - [2] I kept on hearing people moaning about the Energy Systems Operation skill being bugged. Well at the very least it isn't with 1114. I just spent about an hour (had to train some skills) testing this. It was with a Gallenta character, using a Velator. Engineering 1, no ESO skill listed as 100 cap, 75s recharge on fitting/show info 31.4 to 90.x 32s 1.840625 cap/s Engineering 1, ESO at 1 skill listed as 100 cap, 71.25s recharge 32.0 to 89.2 29s 1.9724137931 cap/s 31.6 to 90.x 30s 1.9566666666 cap/s 32.7 to 90.3 30s 1.9200000000 cap/s 31.9 to 90.4 30.5s 1.9180327868 cap/s Now, 32 * 0.95 (i.e. 5% less recharge time) is 30.4. The average of the above is 29.875, but note they're all slightly less cap recharged. I've put the average cap/s for each, and you can see it is consistently higher after I trained ESO to 1. I'm now going to train ESO to 2 on this char to check again. -Ath -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery
Athan	Posted - 2003.07.12 05:36:00 - [3] And adding in results for ESO L2: Engineering 1, no ESO skill listed as 100 cap, 75s recharge on fitting/show info 31.4 to 90.x 32s 1.840625 cap/s Engineering 1, ESO at 1 listed as 100 cap, 71.25s recharge 32.0 to 89.2 29s 1.9724137931 cap/s 31.6 to 90.x 30s 1.9566666666 cap/s 32.7 to 90.3 30s 1.9200000000 cap/s 31.9 to 90.4 30.5s 1.9180327868 cap/s Average 1.9417783116 cap/s Engineering 1, ESO at 2 listed as 100 cap, 67.5s recharge 30.8 to 90.0 29s 2.0413793103 cap/s 32.6 to 90.1 29s 1.9827586206 cap/s 32.0 to 90.3 29.5s 1.9695945945 cap/s 31.8 to 89.4 28s 2.0571428571 cap/s 31.2 to 90.5 29s 2.0448275862 Average 2.0191405937 cap/s 1.840625 * 1.05 == 1.93265625 1.840625 * 1.10 == 2.02468750 So, yes folks, the skill works as designed. -Ath Edited by: Athan on 12/07/2003 05:50:59 -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery
Athan Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2003.07.12 05:36:00 - [4] And adding in results for ESO L2: Engineering 1, no ESO skill listed as 100 cap, 75s recharge on fitting/show info 31.4 to 90.x 32s 1.840625 cap/s Engineering 1, ESO at 1 listed as 100 cap, 71.25s recharge 32.0 to 89.2 29s 1.9724137931 cap/s 31.6 to 90.x 30s 1.9566666666 cap/s 32.7 to 90.3 30s 1.9200000000 cap/s 31.9 to 90.4 30.5s 1.9180327868 cap/s Average 1.9417783116 cap/s Engineering 1, ESO at 2 listed as 100 cap, 67.5s recharge 30.8 to 90.0 29s 2.0413793103 cap/s 32.6 to 90.1 29s 1.9827586206 cap/s 32.0 to 90.3 29.5s 1.9695945945 cap/s 31.8 to 89.4 28s 2.0571428571 cap/s 31.2 to 90.5 29s 2.0448275862 Average 2.0191405937 cap/s 1.840625 * 1.05 == 1.93265625 1.840625 * 1.10 == 2.02468750 So, yes folks, the skill works as designed. -Ath Edited by: Athan on 12/07/2003 05:50:59 -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery
Ivanova	Posted - 2003.07.12 05:51:00 - [5] Thankyou for spending the time to clear this up for everyone, and for sharing your results. Much appreciated. -- "Never use a sledgehammer to drive a thumb tack."
Ivanova Gallente	Posted - 2003.07.12 05:51:00 - [6] Thankyou for spending the time to clear this up for everyone, and for sharing your results. Much appreciated. -- "Never use a sledgehammer to drive a thumb tack."
NeoMorph	Posted - 2003.07.12 07:50:00 - [7] I kept telling people they werent bugged as I'd checked this out myself... I think there may be a mix of an occasional cap bug and maybe a module may be bugged causing the problems people are experiencing. I'm at ESO 4 now and everything recharges fine. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
NeoMorph Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies	Posted - 2003.07.12 07:50:00 - [8] I kept telling people they werent bugged as I'd checked this out myself... I think there may be a mix of an occasional cap bug and maybe a module may be bugged causing the problems people are experiencing. I'm at ESO 4 now and everything recharges fine. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
Aelius	Posted - 2003.07.12 18:07:00 - [9] one thing is listing stuff another is to test with real modules outside the station. have u done this? Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Aelius Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.07.12 18:07:00 - [10] one thing is listing stuff another is to test with real modules outside the station. have u done this?
Athan	Posted - 2003.07.12 19:54:00 - [11] Sorry to be blunt Aelus, BUT DID YOU ACTUALLY F'ING BOTHER TO READ MY POST AT ALL? The tests were done in a Velator, using a Small Shield Booster to get the cap down to 10-20 each time, and then timing how long it took to get back from ~30 to ~90 on natural recharge. This being out of a max cap of 100 units in all cases. -Ath -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery
Athan Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2003.07.12 19:54:00 - [12] Sorry to be blunt Aelus, BUT DID YOU ACTUALLY F'ING BOTHER TO READ MY POST AT ALL? The tests were done in a Velator, using a Small Shield Booster to get the cap down to 10-20 each time, and then timing how long it took to get back from ~30 to ~90 on natural recharge. This being out of a max cap of 100 units in all cases. -Ath -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.07.12 20:18:00 - [13] Im sorry to break it to you, but actually the skill doesn't work as "the description indicates". Energy system operations does not improve recharge rate directly, (the rate at which you regain capacitor), however it reduces recharge time. This is very easy to check by adding a capacitor battery or training energy management, even tho your capacitor gets increased, the recharge time doesnt increase.
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2003.07.12 20:18:00 - [14] Im sorry to break it to you, but actually the skill doesn't work as "the description indicates". Energy system operations does not improve recharge rate directly, (the rate at which you regain capacitor), however it reduces recharge time. This is very easy to check by adding a capacitor battery or training energy management, even tho your capacitor gets increased, the recharge time doesnt increase. "If you were experiencing a lag, it was not server related."
Pyroe	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:35:00 - [15] The rate of recharge does have to increase btw. I understand what your saying Storeslem but if it takes less time to fill a given cap then it has to recharge faster. By if it took 100 seconds to fill 1000 cap thats 10/second. With the skill applied, to fill the same cap in less time it would have to give more then the 10/second. (example only) Anyway it is 100% reproduceable by letting your cap bottom out. Once it hits bottom your done. Takes over 400 cap to activate a sheild booster and trying to warp back to a station is near impossible. Repeated this over and over and have no idea why it happens. Getting to a station and relogging seems to reset it. I tried in the feild a few times but no luck. Edited by: Pyroe on 12/07/2003 22:35:12
Pyroe	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:35:00 - [16] The rate of recharge does have to increase btw. I understand what your saying Storeslem but if it takes less time to fill a given cap then it has to recharge faster. By if it took 100 seconds to fill 1000 cap thats 10/second. With the skill applied, to fill the same cap in less time it would have to give more then the 10/second. (example only) Anyway it is 100% reproduceable by letting your cap bottom out. Once it hits bottom your done. Takes over 400 cap to activate a sheild booster and trying to warp back to a station is near impossible. Repeated this over and over and have no idea why it happens. Getting to a station and relogging seems to reset it. I tried in the feild a few times but no luck. Edited by: Pyroe on 12/07/2003 22:35:12
NeoMorph	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:52:00 - [17] That's not ESO causing that... it's a seperate cap bug that I've reported about 4 times total.. Talked with some of the BH team today about it and what happens is there is a sync problem between what you should have and what is actually displayed. It only happens occasionally if you bottom out the cap by the way. ESO works exactly like it is supposed to. It reduces the amount of time it takes to recharge your cap from 0% to 100%.... I've timed it at lvl2, lvl3 and lvl4... there is a slight seperation at lvl4 of approx 6 seconds is all. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
NeoMorph Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:52:00 - [18] That's not ESO causing that... it's a seperate cap bug that I've reported about 4 times total.. Talked with some of the BH team today about it and what happens is there is a sync problem between what you should have and what is actually displayed. It only happens occasionally if you bottom out the cap by the way. ESO works exactly like it is supposed to. It reduces the amount of time it takes to recharge your cap from 0% to 100%.... I've timed it at lvl2, lvl3 and lvl4... there is a slight seperation at lvl4 of approx 6 seconds is all. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:53:00 - [19] Today I encountered the bug twice without even going empty on cap. Both times I used afterburner on autorepeat, and had several hybrids shooting. My point was, the % bonus that ESO gives, affects recharge time, ie 100 sec becomes 80 sec when you have skill lvl 4. If the recharge rate at first was 10 cap/sec, it would now become 12.5 cap sec, which is a 25% increase and not 20%. Also if you added a Capacitor battery giving +200 capacity, the recharge time would stay at 80 secs but the recharge rate would increase from 12.5 cap/sec to 15 cap/sec.
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:53:00 - [20] Today I encountered the bug twice without even going empty on cap. Both times I used afterburner on autorepeat, and had several hybrids shooting. My point was, the % bonus that ESO gives, affects recharge time, ie 100 sec becomes 80 sec when you have skill lvl 4. If the recharge rate at first was 10 cap/sec, it would now become 12.5 cap sec, which is a 25% increase and not 20%. Also if you added a Capacitor battery giving +200 capacity, the recharge time would stay at 80 secs but the recharge rate would increase from 12.5 cap/sec to 15 cap/sec. "If you were experiencing a lag, it was not server related."
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:57:00 - [21] The Cap bug is also not a "cosmetic bug", what that is shown is the correct values (they are probably calculated by the client), but the server miscalculates and thinks you have lower cap and lower rechargerate. Also, the energy systems operation, is supposed to give 5% bonus to recharge RATE. However it doesn't give an exact 5% bonus to recharge rate, but instead it gives it to recharge time.
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2003.07.12 22:57:00 - [22] The Cap bug is also not a "cosmetic bug", what that is shown is the correct values (they are probably calculated by the client), but the server miscalculates and thinks you have lower cap and lower rechargerate. Also, the energy systems operation, is supposed to give 5% bonus to recharge RATE. However it doesn't give an exact 5% bonus to recharge rate, but instead it gives it to recharge time. "If you were experiencing a lag, it was not server related."
Pyroe	Posted - 2003.07.13 00:29:00 - [23] Since I already tried once Storeslem might I try again to explain that time and recharge rate are one of the same. There is NO specific Cap/second recharge rate. If it was linear you could apply such a rate as in the example I gave before. ie. 10 cap /sec would be 100 seconds per 1000 cap. The skill would apply more cap /second or in the same case less time to reach full cap. So if you had 300 seconds to full recharge then the skill would lower the seconds it takes to reach full cap. Same diff. Just fills up quicker so on the same token more cap per second. Doesn't metter how you apply it the end is the same. P.S. Had it happen a few more times with no zero cap encounter but possibly something the pirates might use on us. I had a white flashing ring on my cap display. First time on the third ring out from center and the second time the second ring from center. Relogged in space and the value seemed to half itself but didnt completely go away. Relogged in station and fixed.
Pyroe	Posted - 2003.07.13 00:29:00 - [24] Since I already tried once Storeslem might I try again to explain that time and recharge rate are one of the same. There is NO specific Cap/second recharge rate. If it was linear you could apply such a rate as in the example I gave before. ie. 10 cap /sec would be 100 seconds per 1000 cap. The skill would apply more cap /second or in the same case less time to reach full cap. So if you had 300 seconds to full recharge then the skill would lower the seconds it takes to reach full cap. Same diff. Just fills up quicker so on the same token more cap per second. Doesn't metter how you apply it the end is the same. P.S. Had it happen a few more times with no zero cap encounter but possibly something the pirates might use on us. I had a white flashing ring on my cap display. First time on the third ring out from center and the second time the second ring from center. Relogged in space and the value seemed to half itself but didnt completely go away. Relogged in station and fixed.
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.07.13 01:10:00 - [25] Yes I do understand, but the skill does say 5% bonus to recharge rate. And a 5% bonus is a multiplier so it would work as good on a non-linear function as on a linear one. Also wether it is added to the recharge rate or recharge time does matter. If average recharge rate was increased by 25%, average recharge rate would go from 10 to 12.5, giving a 20% reduction in recharge time. 1000/10 = 100 1000/12.5 = 80 If recharge time was reduced (as it is) by 25%, we would have 1000/75 = 13.33 recharge rate. Except for this last example, I'm not saying you're thinking wrong, only looking at it from a different pov than me.
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2003.07.13 01:10:00 - [26] Yes I do understand, but the skill does say 5% bonus to recharge rate. And a 5% bonus is a multiplier so it would work as good on a non-linear function as on a linear one. Also wether it is added to the recharge rate or recharge time does matter. If average recharge rate was increased by 25%, average recharge rate would go from 10 to 12.5, giving a 20% reduction in recharge time. 1000/10 = 100 1000/12.5 = 80 If recharge time was reduced (as it is) by 25%, we would have 1000/75 = 13.33 recharge rate. Except for this last example, I'm not saying you're thinking wrong, only looking at it from a different pov than me. "If you were experiencing a lag, it was not server related."
Khyle	Posted - 2003.07.13 10:32:00 - [27] One way to reproduce the bug is to equip a MWD but set it offline, undock, activate. The flashing ring should appear, and the server calculates your cap with the recharge beeing roughly 1/10 of what it should be and is displayed.
Khyle Gallente	Posted - 2003.07.13 10:32:00 - [28] One way to reproduce the bug is to equip a MWD but set it offline, undock, activate. The flashing ring should appear, and the server calculates your cap with the recharge beeing roughly 1/10 of what it should be and is displayed.
Athan	Posted - 2003.07.16 08:21:00 - [29] Boy did this ever go off-topic. Anyway, for what it's worth, ESO is working on TQ with patch 1113 as well. At least it looks that way comparing: 1119 Chaos Vexor, 1150cap, 285s recharge (ESO 4, EM 3) 400 to 700 405.5 to 703.9 35.5s 8.4056338028 cap/s 401.7 to 700.0 35.5s 8.4028169014 cap/s 402.1 to 700.5 35.5s 8.4056338028 cap/s 404.0 to 703.6 35.5s 8.4394366197 cap/s 405.8 to 705.1 35.8s 8.3603351955 cap/s Average 8.4027712644 cap/s 1113 TQ Vexor, 1150 cap, 285s recharge (ESO 4, EM 3) 400 to 700 404.9 to 700.6 35.5s 8.3295774647 cap/s 403.0 to 701.6 35.5s 8.4112676056 cap/s 405.0 to 703.1 35.6s 8.3735955056 cap/s 402.8 to 703.3 35.7s 8.4173669467 cap/s 403.2 to 702.9 35.6s 8.4185393258 cap/s Average 8.3900693696 cap/s -Ath -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery
Athan Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2003.07.16 08:21:00 - [30] Boy did this ever go off-topic. Anyway, for what it's worth, ESO is working on TQ with patch 1113 as well. At least it looks that way comparing: 1119 Chaos Vexor, 1150cap, 285s recharge (ESO 4, EM 3) 400 to 700 405.5 to 703.9 35.5s 8.4056338028 cap/s 401.7 to 700.0 35.5s 8.4028169014 cap/s 402.1 to 700.5 35.5s 8.4056338028 cap/s 404.0 to 703.6 35.5s 8.4394366197 cap/s 405.8 to 705.1 35.8s 8.3603351955 cap/s Average 8.4027712644 cap/s 1113 TQ Vexor, 1150 cap, 285s recharge (ESO 4, EM 3) 400 to 700 404.9 to 700.6 35.5s 8.3295774647 cap/s 403.0 to 701.6 35.5s 8.4112676056 cap/s 405.0 to 703.1 35.6s 8.3735955056 cap/s 402.8 to 703.3 35.7s 8.4173669467 cap/s 403.2 to 702.9 35.6s 8.4185393258 cap/s Average 8.3900693696 cap/s -Ath -- http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery

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