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T2 Drones, and Thoraxs

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keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.03 11:13:00 - [31] NO. NO. No. No. NO. No. No. No. If you want the thorax to keep its bay and be able to run 8 heavy drones II, give my maller an extra turret and the grid to fit it, so i can at least come close to its damage output. I still wont have missiles - just like the pooor, gimped thorax, boo-***-hoo - and i also wont have a drone bay - unlike the poor, gimped thorax, more boo-***-hoo - but if i completely gimp my tank i might be able to come close to doing the damage a thorax with a full bloody tank will do. Give my moa the grid to run 250mm II and heavy Launchers and a damage bonus. Give my rupture a way to even do the damage 8 heavy drone IIs can. Let alone the thorax on top. OR STFU -------------
Doppleganger	Posted - 2005.07.03 11:38:00 - [32] Originally by: Ortu Konsinni And the drone bay is 2000m3, not 2500. I know this isnt part of the discussion and doesnt change how the ship works but on the test server the thorax has 200 m3 drone bay but then hvy drones are now only 25 m3, meds 10 m3 and lights 5 m3. Not sure if it will be this way on tranq but it seems on the test server they shrunk all the drones and dronebays. Ok back to the discussion.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.03 11:41:00 - [33] Originally by: keepiru NO. NO. No. No. NO. No. No. No. If you want the thorax to keep its bay and be able to run 8 heavy drones II, give my maller an extra turret and the grid to fit it, so i can at least come close to its damage output. I still wont have missiles - just like the pooor, gimped thorax, boo-***-hoo - and i also wont have a drone bay - unlike the poor, gimped thorax, more boo-***-hoo - but if i completely gimp my tank i might be able to come close to doing the damage a thorax with a full bloody tank will do. Give my moa the grid to run 250mm II and heavy Launchers and a damage bonus. Give my rupture a way to even do the damage 8 heavy drone IIs can. Let alone the thorax on top. OR STFU Whao there Mr Angry man. You can nerf the thorax when you give the rax the ability to tank like a maller, or have the range of a moa or do burst damage like a rupture. Until then, you STFU. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
Skuld OdinsDottir	Posted - 2005.07.03 11:47:00 - [34] Originally by: keepiru NO. NO. No. No. NO. No. No. No. If you want the thorax to keep its bay and be able to run 8 heavy drones II, give my maller an extra turret and the grid to fit it, so i can at least come close to its damage output. I still wont have missiles - just like the pooor, gimped thorax, boo-***-hoo - and i also wont have a drone bay - unlike the poor, gimped thorax, more boo-***-hoo - but if i completely gimp my tank i might be able to come close to doing the damage a thorax with a full bloody tank will do. Give my moa the grid to run 250mm II and heavy Launchers and a damage bonus. Give my rupture a way to even do the damage 8 heavy drone IIs can. Let alone the thorax on top. OR STFU really ? then pls remove the resistance bonuses from the maller. Liquid dreams filled her mind as she found herself sinking into an eternal ocean of blood. An ocean she had created over the severed flesh of her assigned targets.
Arud	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:05:00 - [35] Compare the thorax to these ships Maller Rupture Moa From day one of eve online the thorax has been absolutely the best crusier out there. All the others have gone through nerf and boost phases, the Maller got a boost, the Rupture got a nerf, the moa is the same so so. I think only at one time I have seen one of them been more used than the thorax and thats the rupture when it could use crusie missiles and dual mwd. The rest, its always been the thorax.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Arud Compare the thorax to these ships Maller Rupture Moa From day one of eve online the thorax has been absolutely the best crusier out there. All the others have gone through nerf and boost phases, the Maller got a boost, the Rupture got a nerf, the moa is the same so so. I think only at one time I have seen one of them been more used than the thorax and thats the rupture when it could use crusie missiles and dual mwd. The rest, its always been the thorax. That is sooo not true. There were very few people using the thorax for combat before it got the mwd bonus. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:10:00 - [37] Id lose my 5% resistance bonus for 8 Heavy Drones any day of the week. /Elve
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:13:00 - [38] Edited by: Darken Two on 03/07/2005 12:14:12 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Id lose my 5% resistance bonus for 8 Heavy Drones any day of the week. Would you also be willing to take all the other crappy stats the thorax has? The low grid, cpu nonexistent cargo space, lesser armor and shields? Ps If the raxes were so overpowered, why aren't we seeing fleets of thoraxes pwning eveybody around the galaxy. Its easy enough to train for. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Id lose my 5% resistance bonus for 8 Heavy Drones any day of the week. I endorse this post -------------
Arud	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 03/07/2005 12:14:12 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Id lose my 5% resistance bonus for 8 Heavy Drones any day of the week. Would you also be willing to take all the other crappy stats the thorax has? The low grid, cpu nonexistent cargo space, lesser armor and shields? Ps If the raxes were so overpowered, why aren't we seeing fleets of thoraxes pwning eveybody around the galaxy. Its easy enough to train for. because we have battleships and t2 ships, that was easy
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.07.03 12:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Darken Two Ps If the raxes were so overpowered, why aren't we seeing fleets of thoraxes pwning eveybody around the galaxy. Its easy enough to train for. Im seeing Thoraxes own battleships on their own, they dont need a fleet. Opposed to Mallers, whose only option to kill a thing involves nosf, and even that is done better by the Thorax. /Elve
Wizard	Posted - 2005.07.03 13:01:00 - [42] Edited by: Wizard on 03/07/2005 13:04:01 Originally by: Blind Fear Originally by: Haul For all you saying the thorax is so overpowerd i can add that one plate thorax with all those drones would still lose to a plate maller most of the time... Heh. Most people use 150 IIs instead of small neutrons these days, helps immensely against frigates and doesnt cost much damage or any tanking. I'd love to see a plate maller kill a 150 thorax. The damage difference is enormous. I honestly cant think of a single time a lone thorax has killed a maller flown by me, a celest rupture killed my maller the other day but i was fitted for frig killing, could of run but i cant resist a target :( It sort of does my head in with posts like this, blah blah would kill blah blah. Well i dont care what ccp change in game, damage on ships etc. Ill just refit different to take it on.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.03 13:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Arud Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 03/07/2005 12:14:12 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Id lose my 5% resistance bonus for 8 Heavy Drones any day of the week. Would you also be willing to take all the other crappy stats the thorax has? The low grid, cpu nonexistent cargo space, lesser armor and shields? Ps If the raxes were so overpowered, why aren't we seeing fleets of thoraxes pwning eveybody around the galaxy. Its easy enough to train for. because we have battleships and t2 ships, that was easy OK not to be annoying or anything, but by your own admission, very few people use raxes. But you still want to nerf something that noone uses? Doesnt make sense to me bud. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
Nervar	Posted - 2005.07.03 13:53:00 - [44] Bottom line is, Rax has been the best cruiser since i started the game and its gonna bee even more OP after patch than it is now. Just look at the mans numbers... The drone bay is stupidily large. End of story, annyone that cant see this are just as dumb as the people that ment the megapulse didnt need a nerf -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2005.07.03 13:55:00 - [45] Originally by: Hllaxiu My Enyo has tanked OgreIs - I'm not exactly sure what people are complaining about. lol, tracking and transversal. __ There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Justice Bringer	Posted - 2005.07.03 14:00:00 - [46] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Every ship needs to suffer the "Tank/Gank" effect, where it must use it's fittings to choose between focusing on firepower, focusing on defense, or attempting a compromise of the two. Giving a ship the means to use 8 Heavy Drone IIs and a 1600mm armor plate providing 2400 HP of damage, is pushing it's way around that effect. All the fittings go into defense while the drones are the offense. It gets the best of both worlds, while no other ship can make that claim. It's all well and good you saying that every ship needs to suffer the tank/gank effect but the Thorax is the only ship in the game not able to use both it's bonuses All the time. The MWD bonus DOES NOT work in deadspace so the Thorax already suffers a loss of sorts. This is a futile argument and I think it should just be allowed to rest. There are ways around defeating any ship in this game and you just need to find out which modules to fit. Use EW to jam another ship, use tactics and keep distance, use sensor dampners, use assault launcher to take out the drones, try all of the above before you start complaining about what ships people may or may not be flying in droves come the new patch. It's a game so just enjoy it for what it is and if you are unable to defeat a Thorax because you don't have enough skills as a pilot use the old adage - "If you can't beat them, Join them". Get your own Thorax and have fun with your own tech II heavy drones, 1600 tungsten plate and small guns. Nuff said.
Arud	Posted - 2005.07.03 14:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: Arud Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 03/07/2005 12:14:12 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Id lose my 5% resistance bonus for 8 Heavy Drones any day of the week. Would you also be willing to take all the other crappy stats the thorax has? The low grid, cpu nonexistent cargo space, lesser armor and shields? Ps If the raxes were so overpowered, why aren't we seeing fleets of thoraxes pwning eveybody around the galaxy. Its easy enough to train for. because we have battleships and t2 ships, that was easy OK not to be annoying or anything, but by your own admission, very few people use raxes. But you still want to nerf something that noone uses? Doesnt make sense to me bud. there are those who are starting the game, getting their first crusiers, look at the ships, see the thorax, buy the thorax what i want is balance, lower the thorax drone bay to 1000 (or 100 as its with the new patch), adjust maybe a few of its other stats and boost the other crusiers slightly And the thorax is still a dependable cheap ship for everyone, but finding enough people willing to use a "fleet" of them is harder then you might think.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.07.03 14:13:00 - [48] I killed several BS in my raxes, thy are best anti frig, anti cruiser and anti BS cruiser ingame No sig today
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.03 15:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Arud Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: Arud Originally by: Darken Two Edited by: Darken Two on 03/07/2005 12:14:12 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Id lose my 5% resistance bonus for 8 Heavy Drones any day of the week. Would you also be willing to take all the other crappy stats the thorax has? The low grid, cpu nonexistent cargo space, lesser armor and shields? Ps If the raxes were so overpowered, why aren't we seeing fleets of thoraxes pwning eveybody around the galaxy. Its easy enough to train for. because we have battleships and t2 ships, that was easy OK not to be annoying or anything, but by your own admission, very few people use raxes. But you still want to nerf something that noone uses? Doesnt make sense to me bud. there are those who are starting the game, getting their first crusiers, look at the ships, see the thorax, buy the thorax what i want is balance, lower the thorax drone bay to 1000 (or 100 as its with the new patch), adjust maybe a few of its other stats and boost the other crusiers slightly And the thorax is still a dependable cheap ship for everyone, but finding enough people willing to use a "fleet" of them is harder then you might think. Ok for arguments sake, lets halve the drone bay on the rax. What excatly does that accomplish. They will still pwn frigs because they can fly 10 med drones since heavys dont hit frigs anyways. Now what other stat on the rax do you want screwed up to fit your vision of balance? Slot layout on teh rax is unremarkable. Its grid and cpu are both mediocre. Its bonus kinda makes it focussed towards blasters. Without the heavy drones, the dmg a plate rax does is pitiful, it can still hit frigs but that about where its usefulness ends. If it went for med blasters and no plate, its defense is extremely weak and any other tier 3 cruiser or even the caracl can own it easy if it starts above 25km. The fact of the matter remains that very few people use a rax for pvp and I dont forsee anyone spending money to put expensive tech 2 heavy drones in one just to lose them when their fragile ship goes boom. Well if your stat about all the noobs buying raxes is true, how come their are rarer than ravens and armageddons. To be absolutely frickin honest, the gallente have very few good ships and the rax happens to be one of them, so you all can p1ss off with your pre-nerfs. @Nafri Yea you killed those ships. Given teh right circumstances, I could kill ships in my Navitas. Whats your point? Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.03 15:04:00 - [50] Tried putting a 1600 plate on maller/rupture/ or large extender on moa? oohhhhhhhh... wait they do pitiful damage as well. and oh what's this, they dont have an mwd bonus or dronebay bigger than that of a lot of BS. 'nuff said. chop its dronebay in 1/2 and boost all cruiser pg/cpu so theyre as comparably easy to fit as BS, please. -------------
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.03 15:10:00 - [51] Originally by: keepiru Tried putting a 1600 plate on maller/rupture/ or large extender on moa? oohhhhhhhh... wait they do pitiful damage as well. and oh what's this, they dont have an mwd bonus or dronebay bigger than that of a lot of BS. 'nuff said. chop its dronebay in 1/2 and boost all cruiser pg/cpu so theyre as comparably easy to fit as BS, please. You've been playing the game for 4 months. You're uninformed and illogical comments are about as welcome as syph1llis. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
Sewell	Posted - 2005.07.03 15:24:00 - [52] Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: keepiru Tried putting a 1600 plate on maller/rupture/ or large extender on moa? oohhhhhhhh... wait they do pitiful damage as well. and oh what's this, they dont have an mwd bonus or dronebay bigger than that of a lot of BS. 'nuff said. chop its dronebay in 1/2 and boost all cruiser pg/cpu so theyre as comparably easy to fit as BS, please. You've been playing the game for 4 months. You're uninformed and illogical comments are about as welcome as syph1llis. The Thorax is overpowered with it's 2000m3 drone bay. How can you not see that? - It needs to be 'balanced'.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.03 15:25:00 - [53] Originally by: Sewell Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: keepiru Tried putting a 1600 plate on maller/rupture/ or large extender on moa? oohhhhhhhh... wait they do pitiful damage as well. and oh what's this, they dont have an mwd bonus or dronebay bigger than that of a lot of BS. 'nuff said. chop its dronebay in 1/2 and boost all cruiser pg/cpu so theyre as comparably easy to fit as BS, please. You've been playing the game for 4 months. You're uninformed and illogical comments are about as welcome as syph1llis. The Thorax is overpowered with it's 2000m3 drone bay. How can you not see that? - It needs to be 'balanced'. he's in denial, and resorting to what basically amounts to name-calling -------------
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.03 16:15:00 - [54] Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Sewell Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: keepiru Tried putting a 1600 plate on maller/rupture/ or large extender on moa? oohhhhhhhh... wait they do pitiful damage as well. and oh what's this, they dont have an mwd bonus or dronebay bigger than that of a lot of BS. 'nuff said. chop its dronebay in 1/2 and boost all cruiser pg/cpu so theyre as comparably easy to fit as BS, please. You've been playing the game for 4 months. You're uninformed and illogical comments are about as welcome as syph1llis. The Thorax is overpowered with it's 2000m3 drone bay. How can you not see that? - It needs to be 'balanced'. he's in denial, and resorting to what basically amounts to name-calling Actually I was just poining out that you havent played long enough to be able to compare ships. As for the raxes drone bay, I would be happy to give half of it away if the raxes survivabilty got upped. I dont want to have to fly a ship that costs 7 mil can only shoot 5 feet in front of its face and breaks as soon as someone sneezes. Plus whats the big deal. I dont mind that a pulse arma does more dmg at better ranges than my megathron with the same sized drone bay. I dont mind that the tempest is faster than my mega eventho the gallente are supposed to be the best close range fighters. I dont mind that the domi hads too little grid to actually fit decent guns. I dont mind that all other gallente crusiers except raxes are useless. So why all this gallente fuss just because the drones got boosted a bit. Its not like other races cant use any drones and it really isnt hard to train up for a rax if you feel its the best cruiser. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
R'adeh	Posted - 2005.07.03 16:23:00 - [55] Mhhhhh...T2 drones... R'adeh lights a Cigar
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.03 16:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Sewell Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: keepiru Tried putting a 1600 plate on maller/rupture/ or large extender on moa? oohhhhhhhh... wait they do pitiful damage as well. and oh what's this, they dont have an mwd bonus or dronebay bigger than that of a lot of BS. 'nuff said. chop its dronebay in 1/2 and boost all cruiser pg/cpu so theyre as comparably easy to fit as BS, please. You've been playing the game for 4 months. You're uninformed and illogical comments are about as welcome as syph1llis. The Thorax is overpowered with it's 2000m3 drone bay. How can you not see that? - It needs to be 'balanced'. he's in denial, and resorting to what basically amounts to name-calling Actually I was just poining out that you havent played long enough to be able to compare ships. /me looks @ skill list with caldari/minmatar/amarr/gallente cruiser all trained up, rupture/stabber/vexor/thorax/maller/omen/caracal/moa in hangar. come again? -------------
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.07.03 16:34:00 - [57] I cant believe people are still trying to argue that the Thorax's drone bay doesn't make it overpowered. You people just arguing for the sake of it now?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.03 16:36:00 - [58] It's cloudy so i cant go to the park, this provides amusement. -------------
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.07.03 16:55:00 - [59] Oops, just better add this: When I say the thorax is overpowered, I mean in relation to the rest of the tech 1 Cruisers. Cruisers in general, are of course, gimped and need a real rethink.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.07.03 17:00:00 - [60] Originally by: Parallax Error Oops, just better add this: When I say the thorax is overpowered, I mean in relation to the rest of the tech 1 Cruisers. Cruisers in general, are of course, gimped and need a real rethink. which is what we've been saying all along, but some people here can only see that balancing them would make the thorax not king of the hill by such a wide margin anymore, and go haywire -------------

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