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Sarah Flinnley
Cannabis Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2013.01.23 19:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The question is pretty simple. When pilots die outside of their pods do they die or wake up in their next clone? I've read contradicting pieces with regards to this, sometimes in the same piece of fiction. So what's the 'official' word? |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1226
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sarah Flinnley wrote:The question is pretty simple. When pilots die outside of their pods do they die or wake up in their next clone? I've read contradicting pieces with regards to this, sometimes in the same piece of fiction. So what's the 'official' word?
Technically you die.
The concept of softcloning (IE having a regular, bog standard clone with a copy of your mind in it, but kept in stasis that you update every once in a while, as opposed to "at the moment of death") was created to deal with the situation of RPers getting themselves into RP out of the pod and getting killed during it. It makes sense, in my opinion, since cloning has been around a long time as a way to avoid death if you have the money or power to make it happen, even pre-capsuleer. It is, however, of dubious cannon.
It has some major downsides, though, if you do use them.
First off, the technology is relatively poor. Errors can happen, and there is no way to know until you activate the soft clone.
It is not an up to date mindmap. It only goes back so far as you last got it updated, which is an expensive and time consuming process. This means you will be missing time, and you wont know what happened in between the last update and the time you woke up. |
Saul Elsyn
Sturmvogel Squadron
47
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Posted - 2013.01.23 20:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, errors happen... there was that whole thing with the clone in Empyrean Age that didn't remember anything. Of course he wasn't exactly woken up by professional medical personnel either... he was woken up to be killed (which is kind of odd but eh).
Soft cloning is like having a 'restore' point if you will... I'd think if you were going to do that, then you'd need to regularly update it and probably write a personal log of some sort to tell yourself how you screwed up and died. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
1932
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 22:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you die outside of the capsule, you are dead.
The existence of soft cloning is currently a bit of a murky point in our PF. It was there, maybe, in places, but might not have been. It got put into a Mercury article I wrote back before I was hired, but eventually got removed... It's a bit debatable if it actually fits in our fiction or not.
Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Prootje
LazyBoyz Band of Recreational Flyers
Intrepid Crossing
6
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Posted - 2013.01.23 22:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is a passage in the Empyrean Age in which a character (presumably 'The Broker') jumps into a Giant Cauldron with molten metal, to be awoken moments later. After which he calls a surprised onlooker.
But I don't know if the Empyrean Age is considered Canon. |
Tykari
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
108
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 22:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
There something about non-pod mind transfer in some of the older backstory pieces and it mentions just how unreliable it really is. They tried using the same sort of snapshot process outside pods by putting the transneural scans in vehicles and portable equipment but false readings would make it go too early or fail to go off properly. The pod breaching is a clear and reliable sign and the way you are connected makes the process a lot easier too.
As for the slow snapshot scanning stuff for soft-clones I'd have to leave that to people with more knowledge of EVE's backstory because I don't know much about that.
In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness. |
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
50
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 23:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Isn't podless cloning the basis of how DUST514 mercs operate?
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Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
177
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 00:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Irregessa wrote:Isn't podless cloning the basis of how DUST514 mercs operate?
Yes, but in a vastly different manner.
The best analogy I have to how the cloning that capsuleers (and, up until now, all other mind-transfer cloning in the cluster) use is that it's somewhat akin to taking a piece of paper and scanning it, transmitting the digital data to a printer, and printing out an identical copy on that printer. Although the process can be made relatively seamless with a well-enough system, the data is always undergoing a fundamental change at each step: Scanning physical to data, data transmitted, printing data to physical again.
A good analogy for DUST cloning technology is having a couple of networked computers, one of which is constantly backing up everything it does to the other. If the "active" machine is damaged or destroyed, the "backup" can pick up immediately by merit of having the last moments of activity already transmitted to it. The data does NOT fundamentally change form. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4280
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 00:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
There been a few back stories of pod pilots getting killed out of their pod, one such story followed a man who had an error in his clone and lost his ability to control ships. The remedy would wipe out all of his experience since he last woke up. It was over all a good short story.
As for soft 'copying' I can see it being possible more doable with the past fiction borrowing on the story mentioned above, killing them outside of the pod only makes them forget who shot them or how they got to that point in getting shot.
There was a live event back in the days too where concord was able to punish a capsuleer and condemn him to death. The blew his ship up and killed the clone that was supposed to reactivate for him while terminating his clone contracts. basically bio-massed the poor fellow like you folks do to your alts quite often.
Either way its for fiction and lore masters at ccp to straighten the story. Until then I will argue my views when its brought up in-conversation.
Afterall these stories are more common than a capsuleer dying outside of his pod being the last straw.
That would be far too easy of an escape from capture and torture as an immortal.  and it wouldn't be eve with some fubar.
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Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University
Ivy League
246
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 01:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Prootje wrote:There is a passage in the Empyrean Age in which a character (presumably 'The Broker', although it could be a middlemen of some sorts, since it's never explicitly stated that it's him, although he does present himself as The Broker) jumps into a Giant Cauldron with molten metal, to be awoken moments later. After which he calls a surprised onlooker.
But I don't know if the Empyrean Age is considered Canon.
You cannot count The Broker by the same standards used for us. He was known to use a radically different cloning tech which, among other things, allowed him some kind of hive mind control among his multiple clones. You can't just say that he was softclonning himself. |
Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
126
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 01:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Empyrean Age and several EON Chronicles all feature capsuleers being killed out of their pod and reborn while confined to certain areas (generally stations with clones in that same station).
I think we need an official lore response on this. Something that confirms/denies the possibility as explained through a chronicle or scientific article or something.
Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home.
-Cold Wind |
Kaseki Suuvatolo
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.01.24 02:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are countless official references to cloning outside of the context of capsuleers. There should be no debate that cloning outside of the capsule exists. The story of the capsule itself, for example, is one of marrying cloning technology (that evidently must have already existed pre-capsule) with the pod piloting technology that made space flight easier.
Therefore...
....if regular people have access to regular cloning, then the concept of "death outside of the capsule not being permanent" existed long ago in the world, well before capsuleers entered the scene.
Therefore...
The notion that capsuleers, with their wealth and power, would not have access to this same technology that others have used for decades/centuries, well, it just doesn't make any sense.
There you go. Two minutes of logical thought. Issue solved.  |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
337
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 06:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:If you die outside of the capsule, you are dead.
The existence of soft cloning is currently a bit of a murky point in our PF. It was there, maybe, in places, but might not have been. It got put into a Mercury article I wrote back before I was hired, but eventually got removed... It's a bit debatable if it actually fits in our fiction or not. Seriously, what's the point of having a fiction portal if you can't trust or use the information therein. 
You can't just have information like that on there for nearly a year, and not expect players to import that into their own backstory/RP. Players were using softclones before that because nothing in the old articles clearly stated that it was not possible or allowed, it only mentions that there was/is opposition to cloning in general.
Ch+¬ has done quite a lot of things knowing he (and some others) had a soft clone. Now he doesn't even know if they have one.
If this is gone, then at least don't retcon this like you have, but make something up like that softcloning was banned in YC 114/115.
Players hate retconning their stories, you know?
I'm gonna stop writing now before I enter into a 'CCP doesn't care about RP' rant, but I was kinda hoping these things would not happen anymore.
Contraband Smuggling: Player Assisted Customs |
Sarah Flinnley
Cannabis Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 20:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Huh, didn't know this would create quite this seemingly animated response.  I only asked because I was in the mood to write a short, and didn't want anything to be completely off the ball.
[edit] Thank you everyone for responding. |
LOL56
Galactic Express
36
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Posted - 2013.01.25 12:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Without something like soft cloning, why was the infrastructure and research to make capsular a reality even possible? Who would ever need a clone except as an organ bank then? Why are the technologies to give use persistent scaring able to exists? Most importantly what do very rich non-capsolears DO with those clone contracts they have. It can't be jump clones, because those are less than ten years old. Is it really worth the millions of ISK just to be able to eat bacon three meals a day and smoke like a chimney? |
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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
1945
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 13:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with you that the inconsistency is annoying and shouldn't happen.
Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1238
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 13:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
LOL56 wrote:Without something like soft cloning, why was the infrastructure and research to make capsular a reality even possible? Who would ever need a clone except as an organ bank then? Why are the technologies to give use persistent scaring able to exists? Most importantly what do very rich non-capsolears DO with those clone contracts they have. It can't be jump clones, because those are less than ten years old. Is it really worth the millions of ISK just to be able to eat bacon three meals a day and smoke like a chimney?
This pretty much. Its known that the wealthy and powerful have been able to have access to clones even without pod-technology. It's not inconceivable that capsuleers, who are some of the most wealthy and powerful, could have access to the same technology, unless there was some sort of law or regulation preventing it. Even then, I see most capsuleers skirting around that law because who is going to allow themselves to have such a glaring and obvious weakness when the technology to fix it clearly exists, all things being equal? |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
3182
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 13:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yeah, and lets be honest, 99% of RPers are going to completely ignore the lack of PF support for softcloning. We've been doing it for years and its just too big a part of roleplay, and without it, it leaves roleplay incredibly limited (and with most of our characters dead)
Torn from grace, gotta find your faith
or the devils gonna claim your soul
|
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CCP Falcon
2187
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Posted - 2013.01.25 15:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Yeah, and lets be honest, 99% of RPers are going to completely ignore the lack of PF support for softcloning. We've been doing it for years and its just too big a part of roleplay, and without it, it leaves roleplay incredibly limited (and with most of our characters dead)
This is the main reason that I think it should stay.
It's been referenced in a few places as being in place and within reach of the obscenely rich and/or important. I certainly think it's something that should stay, as it's out of reach of the vast majority of the population of New Eden anyway.
It's also become a big thing in player backstory and fiction too.
Still, it'll be Abraxas and Gnauton who make that call!
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
467
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 15:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
2 words.... Dust clones.
dont see them running around in pods
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Nulla Curas |
Per Bastet
B.O.O.M
Obsidian Mining Coalition
21
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Posted - 2013.01.25 17:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:2 words.... Dust clones.
dont see them running around in pods
Dust Clones are a Whole different Ball of Wax. It's the Result of at first harvested Sleeper Implants, and now Reverse engineered implants that function the same way. They are not compatable with Pod Implants Currently, but I'm sure some enterprizing capsuleers could fund some research into making a modified version that can be used for when they are out of pod, in a jump clone style useage. |
Jiska Ensa
Unour Heavy Industries
129
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 03:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:2 words.... Dust clones.
dont see them running around in pods
Yes, and I seem to recall the tech in their heads was being researched. Why don't we just all agree to plug a pager into our neck sockets whenever we leave our pods? Not as effective as the capsule's aggressive photocopier but it can at least say "Hey, new clone, old guy just died. Time to wake up. Oh, and by the way, here's the abridged version of what happened over the last 16 hours since he left his capsule". |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
239
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 10:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Surely CCP need to have some kind of soft clone idea to go with future Incarna idea?
I mean I sure as hell wont be leaving my ship and walking around old ruins having people shoot at me if it's a perma death scenario 
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves." |
Kwan Enderas
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 03:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
I feel like the Broker has plenty of soft clones, active at the same time.
It also seems like death is death, capsuleer or not. If you were to transfer this brain state info to a clone without the death of the original, you'd have two people, the same people, alive at the same time. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
117
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 04:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Turelus wrote:Surely CCP need to have some kind of soft clone idea to go with future Incarna idea? I mean I sure as hell wont be leaving my ship and walking around old ruins having people shoot at me if it's a perma death scenario
You're probably quite near the mark here. Since much of the "prototyped" Incarna content was shelved, the Illuminati are more than likely keeping the specifics of 'soft cloning' as nebulous as they can. That way, they can appropriately tailor the 'lore' to match the realities of the game content (once they're finally nailed down). This leaves the design teams free from having to worry about lore problems and inconsistencies.
Till then, we have to live with them instead.  Blame it on the development pipeline (although, frankly, I think lore should inform content, not the other way around). |
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
53
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 07:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm fairly sure CCP had repeatedly stated that there will be no combat in stations. |
JC Anderson
Noir.
Black Legion.
901
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 09:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
As others have mentioned, I've been curious about the DUST clones as well.
In the cinematic trailer they go out of their way to indicate that there is an instant transfer of consciousness. After which, is there line "They would be" -------(Dramatic Pause)------- "Immortal"
From the sound of it, I am assuming DUST clones are far more advanced that the ones that we capsuleers have access to. Or at least it seems that way, since the individuals talking about the DUST clones in the trailer are capsuleers. And yet they discuss it in amazement as if its something new that they had never known existed before that point. |
JC Anderson
Noir.
Black Legion.
901
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 09:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Also back on Capsuleer clones, this line in the official Evelopedia has always confused me.
Evelopedia Entry
--
Therefore, the instant the egg begins to crack, two things happen: the wire-cap on the pilotGÇÖs head injects an instantly lethal nanotoxin into his bloodstream and the scanner sends its piercing light into his skull. Scarce seconds later, he begins the muddy climb towards consciousness in a new body, light years away.
--
In that, they make it sound a lot more like traditional immortality. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University
Ivy League
252
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 11:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Because our clones cannot do it if we are outside the capsule. The capsule is the mechanism that detects when are we about to die (asuming we are inside), does the brainscan and sends the info to the new clone.
If you die outside the capsule, no instant transfer of consciousness for you. That's when you will need a previously created back up clone with as updated as possible memories.
On the other hand, the DUST clones allow an instant transfer of conscioussness (even at the moment of death) at any moment, making them ideal for any close combat action. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
2032
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 13:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
The clone contract you purchase has nothing to do with scanning you prior to death. It is instead simply a body that they alter to look like you and seed with your DNA (if you chose to have that service performed). The quality of the material used to make the body determines if your brain can hold all your skills. Low quality clones are made using lower quality biomass.
New Eden Community Representative GÇ+ New Eden Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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LordSwift
Wrabble Wrousers
The Rejects.
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 13:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Yeah from what i have read and what i would like to think happens is that our Brain State gets backed up as we decant from the pod! And then if we happen to die outside the pod then when we reawaken at that last backup brain state! Their is most likely a signal or something in our implants that allows that clone to awaken when we die!
Mal: "If anyone gets nosy, just...you know... shoot 'em. "
Zoe: "Shoot 'em?"
Mal: "Politely." |
Tykari
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
109
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 13:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Who knows what the future might bring. Right now the DUST and Capsuleer implants are incompatible, but seeing they basicly stole it from the Sleeper I can imagine that over time with the Empires reverse engineering them they might find ways to resolve that issue as they begin to understand how it really works.
Looking at it, the Sleeper implants makes them able to connect to their virtual utopia world. Some information has to pass between them and whatever system is running that VR setting when they are connected. It wouldn't put it in the realm of impossiblity that eventually they might find a way to change it to accomodate data passing between ship and implant.
The biggest problem that could interfere may be that, considering the history the Jove and Sleepers have, the Jove put in certain safeguards or something to prevent those technologies to mix out of fear of what it might unleash, like the Other for example. Of course as we know that didn't exactly work out.
And something I recently thought of in the Soft clone debate. In Theodicy Grious sort of sacrifices himself, and when later Faus sees him alive again and Grious warns him not to tell him how he died. Seems to point to Grious making a softclone of himself, dying, coming back as the soft clone with no memory of his death and not wanting to hear about it either.
In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness. |
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
118
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 17:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:I'm fairly sure CCP had repeatedly stated that there will be no combat in stations.
No fighting in stations does not mean no risk out of the capsule (see shelved avatar content: dev post and video: [email protected] [email protected]). Unles you want your players permanently dieing while exploring a ruined station somewhere; you would still need some kind of new (or old) out-of-the-pod cloning method. |
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Gradient
Electus Matari
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 18:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
For me the existence of jump clones has always confirmed that brain states can be scanned slowly and non-destructively. The idea of cyberware being picked out of a brain ruined by a burning scan and re-used on return to that body just seems odd. Especially as it is made clear that usually you can't remove the stuff without destroying it.
Some feel that being able to soft-scan and save the results makes the setting less grim. However, it could be the case that on returning to a jump clone you are overwriting the mind state that previously was in residence, thus murdering an earlier version of yourself. Now is that grim enough for you?
Either that or anyone using jump clones has their mind state stored on a cloud server, and the body is a drone that is run via the fluid router network . Come to that I rather like that last idea, very Solid State Society don't you think?
Regards,
Arnulf Ogunkoya,
Diplomat for the Electus Matari alliance. |
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:For me the existence of jump clones has always confirmed that brain states can be scanned slowly and non-destructively. The idea of cyberware being picked out of a brain ruined by a burning scan and re-used on return to that body just seems odd. Especially as it is made clear that usually you can't remove the stuff without destroying it. Some feel that being able to soft-scan and save the results makes the setting less grim. However, it could be the case that on returning to a jump clone you are overwriting the mind state that previously was in residence, thus murdering an earlier version of yourself. Now is that grim enough for you? Either that or anyone using jump clones has their mind state stored on a cloud server, and the body is a drone that is run via the fluid router network . Come to that I rather like that last idea, very Solid State Society don't you think?
There's one thing that applies to 'slow scanning' and probably makes it unusable: it's slow, and brain is in constant activity, even if you are asleep or in a coma. Here's an analogy: shutter speed for photo cameras dictates how fast the photo is taken and how much motion distortion there is. You know, what happens when shutter speed is too slow to capture moving object? Image distortion happens. The link above is an excellent example of a vertical focal-plane shutter being slow and causing movement distortion in the image. Now pretty much the same would happen to your brain scan if it was done 'slowly'. There should be another way, though. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
Tribal Band
749
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 01:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Soft cloning is quite odd. Unlike what happens in pod cloning or the new sleeper tech in DUST clones, the conscience isn't transferred. Soft cloning is basically like a backup hard drive on your computer.
It's quite possible to even consider soft-clones different from the original person. They are merely look-alike bodies with your memories and personality meant to carry on your work after death. If a soft clone is activated without this backup, it's essentially a new person that just looks the same as the old one. Empyrean Age touched up on this a bit.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
144
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 12:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Soft cloning is quite odd. Unlike what happens in pod cloning or the new sleeper tech in DUST clones, the conscience isn't transferred. Soft cloning is basically like a backup hard drive on your computer.
It's quite possible to even consider soft-clones different from the original person. They are merely look-alike bodies with your memories and personality meant to carry on your work after death. If a soft clone is activated without this backup, it's essentially a new person that just looks the same as the old one. Empyrean Age touched up on this a bit.
The "consciousness" isn't transferred in pod cloning either. It's exactly the same method as soft cloning, the only difference is that soft cloning is slow and non-destructive, while pod cloning is fast and destructive.
The whole "transfer of consciousness" is something the PF tends to write vaguely to make it sound nicer than it is, and that RPers/characters like to run away with. When you get right down to the bottom line though and read the specifics of the actual process, the burn scan is just a digital copy made at the moment of death that is transferred to a clone and then uploaded to it. As Esna elegantly put it earlier, it's like scanning an image from a piece of paper, e-mailing that scan, and then printing out a new paper with the image miles away. The original paper is not itself mailed, and is destroyed in the process. The printed paper is a copy, it's not the original.
Pod clones are just as much "look-alike bodies with your memories and personality meant to carry on your work after death" as soft clones, the only thing that makes them different is that they're instantaneous.
Sleeper tech is a different story. I don't know much of the lore for it, since the lore is pretty hard to find, but if Esna's previous post is accurate, it means that DUSTies are proper infomorphs, as their minds are saved in a digital format right from the start and constantly housed on a network connected to each of their clone bodies--like an intranet. The bodies themselves would be superfluous. If this is accurate, then DUSTies are really more computer than human. |
Matariki Rain
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
17
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 07:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
There's a public thread on the Electus Matari forum that seems relevant here: Compilation of all PF referring to clones / brain scanning.
At the time that thread was started CCP was asked for a statement about the key aspects of cloning, including soft cloning. CCP Dropbear said that CCP itself didn't have a clear shared idea of how cloning worked. (There's a reference to this in the thread itself, but I'm currently at Fanfest and the Icelandic version of net-nanny that my accommodation uses has decided that the page on the EVE forums that that links to is Not Something I Should Be Seeing.)
A year later there were entries published in EVElopedia which we thought at the time were CCP's response to this, stating clearly that soft cloning was possible. Quotes with links (Icelandic net-nanny again...)
I admit that after that I'm surprised to hear CCP Eterne saying in this thread that CCP is still not sure, and to hear that the EVElopedia articles have had the clear statements edited out of them. It would be lovely, and much appreciated, if CCP could reach an agreement and move on, in a way which is not susceptible to staff changes and "but I never really agreed with the definitive statement we published last time". |
Souchek Lehman
Ten Thousand Years
Shinjiketo
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
I have thought a bit about this since I began RPing in EVE.
Personally I do not like the idea of the "softclone" as it is generally typified.
My interpretation of the PF is that outside of the pod and when not very close to a medical facility one can still be killed.
I like that.
We do not need to be "immortal" in every situation, in fact we are not even if we are in the pod.
Biomass an alt, read the letter you get. I have had several alts I got rid off. Many friends who have quit playing. They are now dead permanently in my fiction.
I like this, it gives me something to work with. Tragedy, sadness, loss.
The idea you need a "softclone" to back you up when you go to a bar say and get in a fight is just cheap imo. You are a capsuleer, you are richer than almost any baseline human in existence. One would hope you could come off the cash to buy protective gear, some bodyguards, something.
In the end I am not saying "yourdoinitwrong", and I will adapt to whatever CCP goes with. Just how I feel.
I am not Immortal.
I am a man utilizing the advances of modern science to survive, that is all.
Catch me outside the pod in the right situation and I am as screwed as the next guy.
10k and Shinjiketo are recruiting-See thread below.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=229061&find=unread |
Beaver Retriever
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 20:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:If you die outside of the capsule, you are dead.
The existence of soft cloning is currently a bit of a murky point in our PF. It was there, maybe, in places, but might not have been. It got put into a Mercury article I wrote back before I was hired, but eventually got removed... It's a bit debatable if it actually fits in our fiction or not.
If soft cloning isn't a thing, then that invalidates everything that has to do with Incarna and WiS, because a capsuleer would never want to leave their capsule, ever. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
144
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 20:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Beaver Retriever wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:If you die outside of the capsule, you are dead.
The existence of soft cloning is currently a bit of a murky point in our PF. It was there, maybe, in places, but might not have been. It got put into a Mercury article I wrote back before I was hired, but eventually got removed... It's a bit debatable if it actually fits in our fiction or not. If soft cloning isn't a thing, then that invalidates everything that has to do with Incarna and WiS, because a capsuleer would never want to leave their capsule, ever.
Your capsuleer wouldn't want to, you mean.
There's a few of us who leave our pods and yet deliberately don't use soft clones, whether they are canon or not. |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1451
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 23:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
Has no one ever read Alastair Reynolds books?? In the books, there is such a thing as alpha, beta, and gamma level copies of an individual which is, essentially, an infomorph. However, these infomorphs and the tech to make em at the time was really limited and not perfected and well...they done goofed and the bodies died and the infomorphs got corrupted.
But this was set in an era where ships couldn't even go FTL. Now, if we think about the massive amounts of tech we have at our fingertips, is it REALLY that far fetched to think that a copy of a human mind can be made and kept in stasis incase the main body up and dies? I mean granted, it's not the 100% same person but....more or less yeah? I just don't feel it's beyond the bounds of Eve and that it deserves retcon. If it's retcon'd, it's gonna kill a LOT of stories and backgrounds...
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