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ShadowHawk
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Posted - 2005.07.05 20:31:00 -
[1]
It seems some genius drastically increased grid usage on small launchers.
This has the effect that most frig setups that are already hard to fit and
require at least one MicroAux now can't fit the launchers anymore.
Did anyone at CCP ever do some sanity check on those changes?
A rocket launcher now takes 4 MW, a standard launcher 8, most frigs
can't fit an MWD and weapons to begin with, now they can't even fit
launchers anymore unless the fill their lows with micro auxs.
Just another retarded change imho...
Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.07.05 20:38:00 -
[2]
Train Advanced Weapons upgrades. Problem solved :)
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.07.05 20:39:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: ShadowHawk
It seems some genius drastically increased grid usage on small launchers.
This has the effect that most frig setups that are already hard to fit and
require at least one MicroAux now can't fit the launchers anymore.
Did anyone at CCP ever do some sanity check on those changes?
A rocket launcher now takes 4 MW, a standard launcher 8, most frigs
can't fit an MWD and weapons to begin with, now they can't even fit
launchers anymore unless the fill their lows with micro auxs.
Just another retarded change imho...
about time they did this, look at it like this. Rockets are short range (blasters/pulse) and standard are long range (rail/beam). Now you go try fitting 3 150mm rails and mwd without an mapc.
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Buraken v2
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Posted - 2005.07.05 20:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kaeten
Originally by: ShadowHawk
It seems some genius drastically increased grid usage on small launchers.
This has the effect that most frig setups that are already hard to fit and
require at least one MicroAux now can't fit the launchers anymore.
Did anyone at CCP ever do some sanity check on those changes?
A rocket launcher now takes 4 MW, a standard launcher 8, most frigs
can't fit an MWD and weapons to begin with, now they can't even fit
launchers anymore unless the fill their lows with micro auxs.
Just another retarded change imho...
about time they did this, look at it like this. Rockets are short range (blasters/pulse) and standard are long range (rail/beam). Now you go try fitting 3 150mm rails and mwd without an mapc.
I totaly agree actually when you put it like that!
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: TheKiller8
Uh what's stopping you from fitting expanders on a freighter?
No slots?
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:01:00 -
[5]
I see a lot of dead Crows in the near future.
http://ig.eve-fix.com/kb/corp_detail.php?crp_id=110
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 http://www.galaktek.com/eve/bin/lvl5 |
pardux
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:17:00 -
[6]
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:19:00 -
[7]
Stop whining...
Turreted frigates have had to deal with this too, a long time ago.
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Cheim
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Cheim on 05/07/2005 21:25:15
Originally by: Kaeten
about time they did this, look at it like this. Rockets are short range (blasters/pulse) and standard are long range (rail/beam). Now you go try fitting 3 150mm rails and mwd without an mapc.
That's why people use 125mm rails. Where are my substandard missile launchers? Turrets generally have the same number of available options per size category as launchers have total. |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:22:00 -
[9]
This hurts the minmatar the most. High-power turrets AND missiles? CPU was already a stretch...
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Karl Borhman
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:34:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Karl Borhman on 05/07/2005 21:37:15
Originally by: Rawthorm
Train Advanced Weapons upgrades. Problem solved :)
Sure, no problem, I'll just squeeze it in while I'm working towards Minnie Indy 5, and Freighter skills since they are a little "light" anyway...
Honestly. I can understand the missile damage and speed changes, but not the grid. Someone smack the idiot that implemented this without looking what it would do to each ship type.
Why the crap do I want to spend 2-3 weeks training advanced weapons upgrade just to fit basic T1 type launchers on a phoon? I already can't fit 4 large guns due to cpu problems with the damn thing on her - and that's supposed to be her strength?
It sounds as if it may be time to scuttle my Phoon and get the insurance isk for her.
Cyclone - hear I come.
__________________________________
Mining ... the other white meat.
__________________________________ |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Isonkon Serikain
Turreted frigates have had to deal with this too, a long time ago.
You'd have a point if the Crow wasn't ALLREADY at the bottom on the interceptor food chain...
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Mr Stargate
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:17:00 -
[12]
yea.. its lame..
my ares fittings are way different now :(
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Linavin
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:21:00 -
[13]
Your acting like this is a change without any warrants put in at the last minute even though this thread (which has been on the forums for 2 months) dietails exactly why the increased grid is warrented.
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Fuazzole
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:38:00 -
[14]
it affects a lot,
the kessie can no longer be the same 4 light missle's, but that's cause its now a rocket ship which is fine
But stealth bombers(nemisis) were made to use cruise....i cant use 2 cruise launchers with out a MAPC,.....a ship made with the 'need' for a MAPC?
PowerGrid 43.75
XT-9000 21.875
50% of the total grid, but due to rounding up, wont activate
sure training a skill will help,....but 1st i have 11days of weapon upgrade to do,......and then i hit a 6x Skill that give +2%, what lvl will i need
i may get the 2 cruise on without a MAPC but i wont be fitting any thing else
i miss the 2 BCU's
how about making the cruise 'fit', and letting the skill give room for other modules, i really wonder how the manticore is doing
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Linavin
Your acting like this is a change without any warrants put in at the last minute even though this thread (which has been on the forums for 2 months) dietails exactly why the increased grid is warrented.
No, it explains why CCP think it's warrented. There's a difference.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Selim
This hurts the minmatar the most. High-power turrets AND missiles? CPU was already a stretch...
I like the change, but yeah it will further challenge us to fit certain setups.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Fuazzole
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:00:00 -
[17]
if u cant fit T1, what of T2
its all driving price's up, im see'ing cruise launchers increasing to 50mill on escrow, (good by bombers)
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:10:00 -
[18]
omg so your weapon needs 4pg. Smallest t2 laser need 6pg. And malediction's grid is no better than crow's.
And 4pg on rocket launcher is the final blow to amarr intys anway. Crusader sucked, now also malediction.
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BlueSmok
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:17:00 -
[19]
That thread that explains why it's warrented is also 42 pages long... I don't have enough drugs to read past page 3 let alone follow the mindless rants and petty debates that go off topic ever 3 posts... The mods have also turned fairly hostile towards anyone who tries to get a specific conversational debate going.. Some Topics are to multi layered to be covered by a single thread... Unless your an some kind of Lawyer used to reading pages upon pages of dribble...
*Laws to suppress tend to strengthen what they would prohibit. This is the fine point on which all the legal professions of history have based their job security.
Bene Gesserit Coda |
Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:19:00 -
[20]
Train the fitting skills and get over it. Welcome to the world of EVE, where fitting ships means filling your highslots with your best weapons might force you to cut back in other areas.
The caldari frigates will be fine with these changes. The ships that are screwed are the ships with mixed turrets and missiles, because even if you can fit a decent loadout, youre getting at most half the bonuses of a specialized turret/missile ship. And while the malediction may be decent enough to survive that, the ares and raptor sure as hell arent.
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Fuazzole
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Train the fitting skill.....
this is the problem i see, the +2% skill is a x6 multiplyer and is an Adv skill needing a lvl 5 pre-req
so i dont see going past lvl-3 unless dedicated
so 6-8% PG bonus on top of a PG increese of ##%? this will do what?
simulate a PDU or RCU at the most,
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Fuazzole
This is the problem i see, the +2% skill is a x6 multiplyer and is an Adv skill needing a lvl 5 pre-req
so i dont see going past lvl-3 unless dedicated
I don't see you flying a very good interceptor then.
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Olek Skillgannon
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Train the fitting skills and get over it. Welcome to the world of EVE, where fitting ships means filling your highslots with your best weapons might force you to cut back in other areas.
Hmmm, call me cynical, but more training time = newbs have to hang around to be able to pilot a ship properly = more paid subscription time on Eve = more revenue to CCP.
It can be argued that these "balance" changes add little to the game other than a shed load of skills and the time required to train them, which will increase the liklihood of revenues for CCP.
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Cheim
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Posted - 2005.07.05 23:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: LUKEC
omg so your weapon needs 4pg. Smallest t2 laser need 6pg.
The smallest tech 1 laser needs 5MW. Tech 1 launchers here. Launchers are supposed to have lower grid than turrets.
Quote:
And 4pg on rocket launcher is the final blow to amarr intys anway. Crusader sucked, now also malediction.
This change affected my Malediction not at all.
Originally by: Blind Fear
Welcome to the world of EVE, where fitting ships means filling your highslots with your best weapons might force you to cut back in other areas.
Good point. I'll just have to use smaller launchers -- hey, where are the smaller launchers? For missile boats, especially small ones (and especially the Kestrel), best is the same as only. Turret fitting cannot be applied to launchers willy-nilly. |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:13:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sorja on 06/07/2005 00:14:40
This change is completely retarded.
I can't equip 2x125mm + 2xROCKET launchers (my usual setup) on a Raptor.
Do they THINK a raptor should fit 75mm?
Removing a low slot would exactly have been the same.
So, WHY did they have to remove a low slot on Caldari frigates?
And, btw, some of us actualy took the time to reply on the thread about the forthcoming changes but they completely ignored the valid concerns of Caldari pilots.
This and the other nerfs (decreased effectiveness, no tech II mods, increased skills and so on) are an entire race nerf.
It has been announced, people have stated why it wasn't fair, time will tell if it was a wise move or if CCP just shot them in the foot.
Edit: almost forgot... I already have weapons upgrades 5 and bought the advanced upgrades book when I noticed it is a RANK SIX!
Who in his right mind thinks training for a long time is FUN?
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Prothos
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:14:00 -
[26]
this was a double slap in the face for us missle users. I fly mostly caldarai now i have have to find a decent setup for all my ships.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sorja
Edited by: Sorja on 06/07/2005 00:14:40
This change is completely retarded.
I can't equip 2x125mm + 2xROCKET launchers (my usual setup) on a Raptor.
Do they THINK a raptor should fit 75mm?
Removing a low slot would exactly have been the same.
So, WHY did they have to remove a low slot on Caldari frigates?
And, btw, some of us actualy took the time to reply on the thread about the forthcoming changes but they completely ignored the valid concerns of Caldari pilots.
This and the other nerfs (decreased effectiveness, no tech II mods, increased skills and so on) are an entire race nerf.
It has been announced, people have stated why it wasn't fair, time will tell if it was a wise move or if CCP just shot them in the foot.
Edit: almost forgot... I already have weapons upgrades 5 and bought the advanced upgrades book when I noticed it is a RANK SIX!
Who in his right mind thinks training for a long time is FUN?
Aren't you quitting?
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Aren't you quitting?
There's a problem with people behaving like you do.
Hatred is not good, especially in a game.
Since the missile nerf was announced, tons of people have rejoiced about the Caldari nerf, for several obvious reasons: jealousy (level 4 missions), misinformation or plain stupidity.
But the worst reason is that a race nerf means more power to the other races, and that is despicable.
You won't be able to find ANY unpleasant comment of mine when the megapulse BUG got fixed.
Amarr was at an obscene advantage (they still are when it comes to training times, cargo space, tanking or damage mod stacking) but I didn't rejoice AT ALL from what they called an inaceptable nerf (which it was not).
Maybe a long training time will allow Caldari pilots to recover from the nerf, but many Caldari pilots won't have the patience and will leave the game, especially those who like me who had to train EW (scorp, blackbird), gunnery (Merlin, Raptor, Hawk, Harpy, Moa, Eagle), missiles (Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven) and now drones for the Raven in a desperate hope to deal damage to small targets.
Do Minmatarr suffer the same fate?
Not quite.
Some ships require both missiles and gunnery, but it's viable to fly VERY POWERFUL matari ships only training for gunnery.
Now, when it comes to Gallente and Amarr, they are the clear winners, but what exactly did they win?
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:09:00 -
[29]
So you are having a problem with what exactly? Ravens not being the automatic answer to easy mode BS?
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi |
Dramush
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:32:00 -
[30]
Well, that's a problem imo. Tne Nemesis was able to fit two cruise launchers and still fit some 125mm without much problems ONLY if you use a Micro Aux. Power Core, but I don't see why Nemesis have two low slots... just cut one out and raise the PG by 10. It's impossible to fit an usefull setup in a Nemesis without a Micro Aux.P.C. anyway.
Ok.. another skill that will take a month to reach lvl 4 or 5(I think more). And than I will be able to try to fly my Nemesis again... or may be they will nerf the hybrids/projectile/lasers and raise the grid needed... so you only be able to use a frig if you have all suport skills at level 5 and some uber named RCUs. Frigs now are ships for the vets with 10years playing, the newbie player as my self will use a cruiser fitted with small equips, orignally designed for frigates. That's sad... but true.
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