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DjDangle
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:34:00 -
[1]
I know this is a tricky subject. I've read quite a lot about them. Me personally I have a full set, about 4000 insta's in my people and places and so does the rest of my corp.
On 1 hand. I agree that they should be nerfed to stop people being so invulnerable, reduce server lag (I'm not sure if all these insta's in people p&p actually do cause problems to the servers, but i'm pretty sure they dont help), add more enojyment to certain aspects of the game...
On the other hand. It would be so damn slow without them! 15km from a gate is forever in a slow ship without an mwd or ab and those slots are so vital lol (Not inc lovely inty's ofcourse)...
Can't you guys just simply make it so people warp in at 7.5 or 10km from a gate/station instead? Anything has to be better than 15km? Just an idea?
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Wa Happen
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:08:00 -
[2]
5km warp in distance or less.
Warping in at 15km makes the game waaaaaay to slow. Without instas you spend 60% or more of ur gaming time just moving from point A to point B. TBH it already IS like that WITH instas. Without them, would be 10 times worse. |
Sicori Malaki
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Posted - 2005.07.07 05:27:00 -
[3]
how about this to nerf insta's (to hell and back)
it would be both a glorious insta' nerf and a glorious addition to eve, you could strike 2 flies with one stone.
how you might ask??
make solar systems SPIN, thats right, make planets and celestial objects move around the sun.
you could do this 2 different ways, reposition all celestial objects at each DT to simulate a small rotation in the systems, could add this into the pruning algorythm, again striking 2 flies with one stone.
or you could do something that requires a little more programming, make them spin in realtime. your sitting outside a station for couple hours and what do you know, its slowly moving away from you, at like 2km/hour or something.
now, this would make insta's practically useless, as they wouldn't be accurate to drop you ontop of the gate. now this would be a slap in the face for every insta' user so you could meet them mid-way and have a skill that could be trained for more accurate warp-in points, so with lvl5 they would end 10km from the object they warped to. ______________ Only in the Tales that humans tell, do the hunters kill the wolf in the end. |
Jaka
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Posted - 2005.07.07 08:28:00 -
[4]
yeah, that's just brilliant
Perhaps you've forgotten the point that BMs are not only intended for instawarp to the gate.
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Kylania
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
make solar systems SPIN, thats right, make planets and celestial objects move around the sun.
This idea is PERFECT. It gets rid of instas to gates and all that silly pvp stuff people are all up in arms about, yet still would work for temp instas like setting up a back and forth from a mining spot to dock. I say do it! The insta using PvP crowd has cause me and other newbies to have to take 15-20 extra jumps getting anywhere, time for them to suffer too. :)
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Princess Skye
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:26:00 -
[6]
Get rid of instas and it is open season on all none 0.0 pirates - where will you run to without deadspace bms? how will you pick up loot when you need to fill your cargo holds with ammo because you won't have any deadspace cans full of ammo? you hit one person in space above 0.0 who belongs to a big enough corp and you are history.
Think about it - instas don't just help traders - they are a necessity to any good pirate too.
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Princess Skye
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Princess Skye on 07/07/2005 11:30:25
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
make solar systems SPIN, thats right, make planets and celestial objects move around the sun.
This idea is PERFECT. It gets rid of instas to gates and all that silly pvp stuff people are all up in arms about, yet still would work for temp instas like setting up a back and forth from a mining spot to dock. I say do it! The insta using PvP crowd has cause me and other newbies to have to take 15-20 extra jumps getting anywhere, time for them to suffer too. :)
Errm - instas protect you against pvp not make it easier for them to kill you. Yes, it allows them to escape and hide out in deadspace where they can have ammo dumps to reload, but without instas going through losec space can be very dangerous - if you want to get rid of instas then make it impossible to gank at gates above 0.0 sec. or increase the speed of indys and allow them to have better weapons
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Ka Sei
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Posted - 2005.07.07 13:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
make solar systems SPIN, thats right, make planets and celestial objects move around the sun.
This idea is PERFECT. It gets rid of instas to gates and all that silly pvp stuff people are all up in arms about, yet still would work for temp instas like setting up a back and forth from a mining spot to dock. I say do it! The insta using PvP crowd has cause me and other newbies to have to take 15-20 extra jumps getting anywhere, time for them to suffer too. :)
The idea is great in an RP kind of way because obviously things orbit other things in real life. But looking at it from the coding point of view, i think that trying to create the physics for that would be a horrendous nightmare.
Great idea though
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Reihanna Rengar
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Posted - 2005.07.08 00:10:00 -
[9]
Like many others have said, watching your ship make 20 some odd jumps is both pointless and boring. I play eve to have fun, not sit and watch my ship fly through space jump after jump for an hour or more everytime I want to fly with the friend or need to pick something up off maket or escrow.
Now yes bm's do make it harder to kill people, but it also makes the game a lot less boring for players that don't have forever to play.
Since the last patch I find I spend over 1/2 my time jumping from gate to gate rather than doing something fun or entertaining. (when you can mimize eve and go watch a movie and come back only to find your haulr still isn;t at the destination yet you seriously begin wondering why you pay so much per month)
And for pirates that hate bm's the easiest solution it to set up a moble warp disruption field near your favotire gank point and solve the issue entirely.
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McMurderer II
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Posted - 2005.07.09 10:04:00 -
[10]
I think they should nurf all gate to gate instas. Then make another navagational skill where the higher level you are the closer to the gates you warp in at. That way all your safespot instas stay intact plus all your stashed ammo cans.... I think it would be easy for them to impliment this. Everyone with out the "Navagational Accuracy" skill would warp in at 15km. At Level 5 you come out of warp at 5km. |
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.07.09 10:22:00 -
[11]
Just remove 'warp to bookmark' and get that safespot crap over and done with.
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DjDangle
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Posted - 2005.07.09 10:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: McMurderer II I think they should nurf all gate to gate instas. Then make another navagational skill where the higher level you are the closer to the gates you warp in at. That way all your safespot instas stay intact plus all your stashed ammo cans.... I think it would be easy for them to impliment this. Everyone with out the "Navagational Accuracy" skill would warp in at 15km. At Level 5 you come out of warp at 5km.
Tis a good idea but then whoever has lvl 5 will be almost invulnerable. Which is one of the problems with Instas...
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.07.09 18:22:00 -
[13]
Just make it so you can't warp within 10 KM of a gate.
And if you get a target lock, and they warp away, you should not lose the lock. Instead, you should be able to click a button and warp to follow them, like gang jumping.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2005.07.10 04:10:00 -
[14]
How about this:
- A skill to be able to warp near (lets say at best 3km) to the stargate. - This skill applies less for stargates you don't use often. - This skill applies more for stargates you use often. - This skill only works for stargets within the last 50 systems you visited. - The skill effect fades out when you don't use a stargate for some time.
Ok, ppl will get this skill to lvl 5 fast but still you don't get instants for every system there is. So every time you went into a new territory you will have standard distance to the stargate.
This way ppl living within a territory will have an advantage, which I think is good. So attackers will have a hard time while defenders will have an advantage.
So no more massive bm copy parties before starting to attack someone.
Also make a 15km no-warp-to area around the stargates so that all the 1000 bm's get useless.
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Zaldiri
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Posted - 2005.07.10 17:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ka Sei
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Sicori Malaki
make solar systems SPIN, thats right, make planets and celestial objects move around the sun.
This idea is PERFECT. It gets rid of instas to gates and all that silly pvp stuff people are all up in arms about, yet still would work for temp instas like setting up a back and forth from a mining spot to dock. I say do it! The insta using PvP crowd has cause me and other newbies to have to take 15-20 extra jumps getting anywhere, time for them to suffer too. :)
The idea is great in an RP kind of way because obviously things orbit other things in real life. But looking at it from the coding point of view, i think that trying to create the physics for that would be a horrendous nightmare.
Great idea though
I belive it may already be coded. If you look at a planet it has statistic for orbit length and ecentricity. It may be that the feature is acctualy in the game but just not enabled.
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.07.10 18:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mitram How about this:
- A skill to be able to warp near (lets say at best 3km) to the stargate. - This skill applies less for stargates you don't use often. - This skill applies more for stargates you use often. - This skill only works for stargets within the last 50 systems you visited. - The skill effect fades out when you don't use a stargate for some time.
Ok, ppl will get this skill to lvl 5 fast but still you don't get instants for every system there is. So every time you went into a new territory you will have standard distance to the stargate.
This way ppl living within a territory will have an advantage, which I think is good. So attackers will have a hard time while defenders will have an advantage.
So no more massive bm copy parties before starting to attack someone.
Also make a 15km no-warp-to area around the stargates so that all the 1000 bm's get useless.
Sounds like a programming nightmare if you ask me. Can't be too good with server lag either. ---------------------------
VSX EVE Design |
Aktaku
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Posted - 2005.07.14 13:49:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Aktaku on 14/07/2005 13:49:50
Originally by: Vilserx
Sounds like a programming nightmare if you ask me. Can't be too good with server lag either.
Yeah, even if they got it programmed, the database would still be clogged with information, and it would be used every warp, for everyone with the skill.
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PhamNuwen
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Posted - 2005.07.14 18:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: PhamNuwen on 14/07/2005 18:50:06 best proposal: let the system rotate each DT the same angle. It should be easy to transform all object loactions by the same value.
How to find own secured Loot-Cargos? Use Scanner. Drop it on moons/planets/sun.
Also a nice idea:
Originally by: Mitram How about this: - A skill to be able to warp near (lets say at best 3km) to the stargate. - This skill applies less for stargates you don't use often. - This skill applies more for stargates you use often. - This skill only works for stargets within the last 50 systems you visited. - The skill effect fades out when you don't use a stargate for some time.
Petition: - kill Instant Bookmarks - add warp precision skills/mods --- Other Characters: EVE: SmilingMurder |
Goldengamegod
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Posted - 2005.07.14 19:44:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Goldengamegod on 14/07/2005 19:51:10 CCP 1. ban bookmarks within 15k of a gate 2. prevent players from activating a gate while warping to a BM and for 15sec after.
Traders 1. go to merc forum and hire some protection (like it is supossed to work) 2. use MWD at gate
2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:05:00 -
[20]
I personnaly would leave if instas are removed without a suitable replacement, travel times are already far too long and a massive timesink.
And as for all the people crying that people get by them with instas when they are sat at a gate killing none combat equiped or prepared ships and new players, there is a way, its called warp bubbles. I have seen them used and been in gangs defending territory with them. They work well, your problem is you want your cake and to eat it, you want the easy kills with low risk, ie being able to jump as soon as a larger force comes to threaten you. Thats just wrong, so can we stop whining about game mechanics because it doesnt suit our specific easy style and put a bit of bloody work in. In the end we are gonna screw this game for ourselves.
Formula of destruction - People moan (generally a SMALL and very LOUD) minority + CCP nerfbat technique (smashing without thought or consideration) = much LARGER but generally SILENT majority getting more and more ****ed about a game that they have to pay to play.
I do apologise if my post gives an impression of hostility, im not intending to upset with my post just present something which has been narking me for a while.
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Goldengamegod
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Seth Killbain I personnaly would leave if instas are removed without a suitable replacement, travel times are already far too long and a massive timesink.
And as for all the people crying that people get by them with instas when they are sat at a gate killing none combat equiped or prepared ships and new players, there is a way, its called warp bubbles. I have seen them used and been in gangs defending territory with them. They work well, your problem is you want your cake and to eat it, you want the easy kills with low risk, ie being able to jump as soon as a larger force comes to threaten you. Thats just wrong, so can we stop whining about game mechanics because it doesnt suit our specific easy style and put a bit of bloody work in. In the end we are gonna screw this game for ourselves.
Formula of destruction - People moan (generally a SMALL and very LOUD) minority + CCP nerfbat technique (smashing without thought or consideration) = much LARGER but generally SILENT majority getting more and more ****ed about a game that they have to pay to play.
I do apologise if my post gives an impression of hostility, im not intending to upset with my post just present something which has been narking me for a while.
Just so you all know, I'm not for or against instas. I was just providing a solution to the problem that CCP and others said was impossible to fix. Not that it ever needed fixing (see below).
As for the pirates here, you do not have to get them at the gate. Just warp away from the gate you want to camp and while in warp place a BM in the warp path, then haul a disrupter out to that spot and wait. Anything caught in it will be unable to warp away and since they are far from the gate they cannot jump back. Add EW to that and they will not be able to fight back either.
2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away.
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Mitram
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:54:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mitram on 14/07/2005 21:00:22 I think something must be done here. I personally would love to delete all my BM's. I have only about 1500 and scrolling in P&P is slow and adding/deleting/renaming a BM takes like 10-20 seconds.
How about this:
- A scout record (which basically would be a set of BM's but encapsulated so that you don't manage them individually.) - Only the BM's in that scout record of the current system are visible. - A scout record has a usability counter similar to blueprints. - Each time you use the scout record to warp to a location the usability counter is decreased. - If the usability counter becomes 0 the scout record is useless. - A scout skill allows a scout to produce a master scout record of a certain quality. - If a skill of 0 a scout can add a location of an object to the master scout record with a precision of 15-20 km (so even worse than the normal warp-to). Higher skills increase the precision. - To add a location to a master scout record the scout has to stay near the object for some time. (maybe with speed 0) - The master scout record can be copied N times to make regulare scout records. - Regulare scout records can not be copied - Master scout records can not be left in stations or containers. They are always in the active ship. Once the active ship is destroyed all master scout records are destroyed. (to prevent scouting + clone jumping and maybe to get rid of too many master scout records) - Master scout records may have a validity time (e.g. 1 month) to prevent too many master scout records in EVE. - scout records could be used as input to the autopilot
possible extensions: - Empty master scout records could be a reward of agents (this would allow to limit the maximum number of master scout records in EVE. Once we get near the limit it will become more and more unlikely that someone gets an empty master scout record. Only destroying master scout records will increase the chance to get a new empty one from an agent) - Once a master scout record was copied no new location can be added to it. (or you have to close the master scout record before you can make a copy) - You could buy and sell regulare scout records on the market (that would open a new profession with its own income: Scout)
What do you think?
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Goldengamegod
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:21:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Goldengamegod on 14/07/2005 21:21:21
Originally by: Mitram Edited by: Mitram on 14/07/2005 21:00:22 I think something must be done here. I personally would love to delete all my BM's. I have only about 1500 and scrolling in P&P is slow and adding/deleting/renaming a BM takes like 10-20 seconds.
How about this:
- A scout record (which basically would be a set of BM's but encapsulated so that you don't manage them individually.) - Only the BM's in that scout record of the current system are visible. - A scout record has a usability counter similar to blueprints. - Each time you use the scout record to warp to a location the usability counter is decreased. - If the usability counter becomes 0 the scout record is useless. - A scout skill allows a scout to produce a master scout record of a certain quality. - If a skill of 0 a scout can add a location of an object to the master scout record with a precision of 15-20 km (so even worse than the normal warp-to). Higher skills increase the precision. - To add a location to a master scout record the scout has to stay near the object for some time. (maybe with speed 0) - The master scout record can be copied N times to make regulare scout records. - Regulare scout records can not be copied - Master scout records can not be left in stations or containers. They are always in the active ship. Once the active ship is destroyed all master scout records are destroyed. (to prevent scouting + clone jumping and maybe to get rid of too many master scout records) - Master scout records may have a validity time (e.g. 1 month) to prevent too many master scout records in EVE. - scout records could be used as input to the autopilot
possible extensions: - Empty master scout records could be a reward of agents (this would allow to limit the maximum number of master scout records in EVE. Once we get near the limit it will become more and more unlikely that someone gets an empty master scout record. Only destroying master scout records will increase the chance to get a new empty one from an agent) - Once a master scout record was copied no new location can be added to it. (or you have to close the master scout record before you can make a copy) - You could buy and sell regulare scout records on the market (that would open a new profession with its own income: Scout)
What do you think?
Bit comlicated... Really though, gate camping is so stupid. It's so much eaiser to just use a warp disrupter. Another bounus of that is you can do it away from the sentry guns.
2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Goldengamegod As for the pirates here, you do not have to get them at the gate. Just warp away from the gate you want to camp and while in warp place a BM in the warp path, then haul a disrupter out to that spot and wait. Anything caught in it will be unable to warp away and since they are far from the gate they cannot jump back. Add EW to that and they will not be able to fight back either.
Far better put then my effort, and a very valid way to gank if thats your thing.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Seth Killbain
Originally by: Goldengamegod As for the pirates here, you do not have to get them at the gate. Just warp away from the gate you want to camp and while in warp place a BM in the warp path, then haul a disrupter out to that spot and wait. Anything caught in it will be unable to warp away and since they are far from the gate they cannot jump back. Add EW to that and they will not be able to fight back either.
Far better put then my effort, and a very valid way to gank if thats your thing.
And mitram, looks nice in theory but seems very complicated.
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