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Jaged
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:35:00 -
[1]
Linkage
This is off of a forum for BF2, but after reading through it I think it applies to eve just as much if not more so. Its a great read. I used to think that the devs only had that much more to gain from listening, but he puts things into perspective with this article.
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The Golden Rule on the Internet:
Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total ****head |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/07/2005 23:43:32
Correction: Devs should listen to fans, but only when they know the fans are right.
If the fans cannot give a valid reason for their opinion and/or the devs can give a counterpoint, then ignore the fans.
And in most cases, for example the missile "nerf", there is no valid reason for the whines.
For example, the devs listened to the whines of the pirates after the 750k nerf--and they boosted the sec status gain for all NPCs by 2x, commanders by 4x, officers by 8x. It was reasonable, IMO.
--
Dark Shikari: POS Consultant!
Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required! |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:49:00 -
[3]
Exactly.
I;ve probably made as much negative posts about ccp as positive ones. But one thing they never fail to do is bring changes based on valid arguments. Wether you agree or not, the basis is always there with them.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Avalon Beholder
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:51:00 -
[4]
This is spot on.
People only whine to benefit themselves.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:53:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Avalon Beholder
This is spot on.
People only whine to benefit themselves.
I'm not a pirate, I don't have low sec status, I whined about the 750k change. It got fixed.
I don't use missiles, I whined about the missile change (before it was finalized) and it was fixed to be balanced.
--
Dark Shikari: POS Consultant!
Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required! |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/07/2005 23:43:32
Correction: Devs should listen to fans, but only when they know the fans are right.
If the fans cannot give a valid reason for their opinion and/or the devs can give a counterpoint, then ignore the fans.
And in most cases, for example the missile "nerf", there is no valid reason for the whines.
For example, the devs listened to the whines of the pirates after the 750k nerf--and they boosted the sec status gain for all NPCs by 2x, commanders by 4x, officers by 8x. It was reasonable, IMO.
Agreed.
However, the article kinda annoys me. He's basically saying, users should be so greatful that we even created this game, they should consider us to be infallible and never criticize us. That's a bit harsh and probably an exaggeration, but that's what it boils down to. I get upset when Devs go out of their way to code something that is pointless/stupid/screws everybody over. At that point, I think they have no right to use that line, because THEY didn't need to spend their time and effort creating (or UN-creating) that particular thing, and nobody wanted them to, so why be grateful?
And by the way, yes we're greatful for creating EVE (or at least I am), but CCP should (and I THINK does) remember that EVE is not a generous gift from them to us, it is bought and paid for, every single month.
___________________________________________
^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
fairimear
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:59:00 -
[7]
Edited by: fairimear on 07/07/2005 00:00:41
they should have it engraved on the desk's "all of our subscribers are bias to themself so do the oposit of what they ask".
o and on a side note just incase developers think that means they are right "Don't fix what aint broke".
Like ui font for example.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Sevarus James
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:01:00 -
[8]
Whether or not forum posters actually pay attention to that article...they SHOULD read it. Best dev-side insight I've seen in awhile. Having read/posted in these forums during times when not in game (such as now at work).....I am amazed that CCP hasn't just flipped the 'off' switch when it comes to reading some of the drivel posted here.
The one beautiful statement I'll quote is the following:
"Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total ****wad"
Now that's a sig worthy line if I've ever seen one. 
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Draaven
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Draaven on 07/07/2005 00:06:27
Some gems from that article which seem especially pertinent given the significant game play changes implemented in the past 48 hours:
"A problem with most feedback, especially in a persistent game that is constantly evolving, is that most players are really just trying to protect their immediate personal interests."
"I discovered that the players I had been listening to most of the time were mostly, well, whiners."
*cough*
No further comment.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sevarus James
I am amazed that CCP hasn't just flipped the 'off' switch when it comes to reading some of the drivel posted here.
What gives you the idea that they read it? They recruit ISD from the player base to wander the forums looking for things to lock, but CCP itself has never indicated that it really cares what we say in the forums. It's nice to get your opinion out and discuss it, but that doesn't mean CCP cares. They've at least hinted that they pay SOME attention to the "Features and Ideas" section, but the Devs certainly aren't reading EVE General Discussion to help them decide what to do with EVE.
___________________________________________
^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
James Raven
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:12:00 -
[11]
In general, agreed with that longish post. The thing that I think is the most important is constructive criticism (I don't think I spelled that right..) and just about any dev will tell you that they love to get this. If you have a valid reason and explain what that reason is, your "whine" turns into a reason that they can take and expand upon and come up with a solution that addresses the "concern" of the player.
See? The whine becomes a concern with a little explination. And concerned customers are always heard, while the whiners are just that... whiners.
Many thanks to CCP for making this awesome game that's got me addicted to it.
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I'm not going to protect you from your own stupidity. I'm a space pirate, not your mother. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:15:00 -
[12]
It's the developer's game. Something that they don't like isn't going to make it into the game. And they do play the game, these balances aren't being pulled directly out of the player suggestions. They don't look at the forum and say "Hmm, everyone wants lasers to use up ammo. Let's do that.". If it's a stupid change, even if a lot of forum users support it, they will take one look at it and say "No, we don't like that" and it won't be implemented.
It's because the players come up with some fantastic ideas, though, that they seem to get their way. They get their way only if the devs agree with them and that happens very rarely. There are so many players that between them they seem to highlight problems better than a small group of people playing the game, but that doesn't mean the game is always changed based on what the players want.
The bottom line is, you're playing CCP's game and what they want in it will go in it. You're just a player. Feel free to make a suggestion or two like everybody else but there is no way that the playerbase control the changes in eve. Have you seen the sheer number of rejected ideas on the ideas and suggestions forum? Threads that rage on for pages and are repeated every month or so but whose ideas are never going to be implemented. If you think people posting petitions or complaining on a forum is going to get the game mechanics changed to suit them, you're vastly mistaken.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Avalon Beholder
This is spot on.
People only whine to benefit themselves.
There's an old not so chinese proverb that goes; You know others like you know yourself.
If I ask for a change it's always for a more challenging game, not to help me get ahead.
Here have a vowel that is also a cookie! *hands poster the dumbfounded E*
Convert Stations
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:37:00 -
[14]
To us its a game, to them its their job their financial security and income.
in short they do what is best to secure their future, no matter what is said on the boards.
Most develoupment is born from a mix of ideas od the devs and players, but a player will allways be bias toward their point of view and playstyle the devs have to think of the entire playerbase they have to consider how this "new" idea fit in with the long term goal and direction of the game, in short they need to know that what seams like a good idea today or a bad one for that matter still are good or bad in 8-9 months or even 2 years time in to the future.
in short what they do today they must be sure is still a good idea and will still support their job security and income years after you grown tired of the game and moved on.
It dont nessesarily mean they dont listen, it just might be they see your good idea of today as a major problem in 8 months time when another idea is going to spring to life as allready planned and decided is in their long term planning schedule.
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The Hellion
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:52:00 -
[15]
I kinda agree with the post, simply because if the devs listened to every piece of rubbish on this forum the game would have gone down the drain years ago.
The devs made a game this great so far based on their concept and idea for a game, I say let them continue their sparkling work and keep following that idea. The only issues players should get involved in are balance issues, like the missile nerf, the posters think theyve been unbalanced, so they can post about it, fortunatly we have intelligent people who post here who were quick to remind the missile users that they havn't been unbalanced, now all is well.
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