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DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 20:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL;DR
If someone wrote a concise "What EvE is really about" page that everyone that wanted to start playing EvE actually had to read, we would get a lot less new players, as it seems that in recent years, EvE has shifted from a space combat game into something people log into just to see how much they can annoy total strangers.
---
I came to EvE for a number of reasons. I wanted to see what CCP had done with an entire universe, I wanted to see what this "emergent" gameplay was all about, and I wanted one game where the term "safe" did not apply, ever.
So far, I've seen a rather static universe, with lots of extremely easy to predict scripted stuff that everyone is other farming or cookie-cutter'ing their way through, tons of people that only play only to scam/gank people just to get a reaction, which to me is the same as someone aimbotting in an FPS, ie not the "cheating" part, but the "ha ha what are you going to do about it" part. I mean, sure, infiltrate and shut down a corp because they are your enemy, but infiltrate a mining group just to pop a bunch of industrials then run? just to provoke rage evemails? I just don't get that mentality, as it does nothing to further the game, and it's only possible because this game has no way of properly tracking players or stopping the rolling of ALT's. Places like eBay openly mark idiots as such, in EvE we have no way of really knowing who we are dealing with, and practically anything that could be done to fix it can be abused by large enough player corps. Read a book called Daemon, it had an interesting concept on how to give "scores" to people - pretty sure corps as large as GoonSwarm or TEST would find a way to abuse that too, when you can just order thousand of players to vote your way.
Emergent gameplay? All I have seen is this cheap tactics which rely on poorly coded mechanics. It's not emergent, it's abusive use of a feature that was coded for a different reason. Bumping is a side effect of the bubble all objects have, probably to stop objects getting clipped into each other, I mean, as if your piddly little Rifter could bump a Titan. POS Bowling anyone? Or try googling "Zombie smartbombing Yulai".
EvE has mining ships that take months to skill into to use properly; they are a gameplay choice. EvE has Marauders that take half a year to fly properly, also a MAJOR gameplay choice. Imagine someone skilling up into a Golem, then spending 2 billion just to get it "mission basic standard" to find out a corp mate is an awoxer, and they can just kill it mid-mission with a 5 mill ship, cause it's "legal" to attack Corpmates.
Fair? Of course it's fair, but at this rate, all the EvE players we will have left is people gate camping gates no one is coming through, and trying to find miners to bump that have just gone to play Star Citizen or another space game.
The only way to have a dynamic universe full of life and activity is to have players that simply do day to day stuff, like mine, run missions, sell loot cheaply to new player, build the odd hull or ammo reserves in out of the way stations, move your parcels around, etc etc, but you all seem to want a universe full of blood thirsty, crazed killers that gank anything they see, and where so many players avoid the markets and courier missions because more often then not they are traps. That's not a sandbox MMO universe, that's Pirates Online.
Good luck getting enough numbers of fresh, bright eyed players to make EvE feel like a proper Sandbox universe and not a FPS shooter in spaceships.
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piecakes's brother
Blunderbuss Trade Co
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 20:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
no one cares... about what you think
Didnt read cause it was long and I dont like reading |

Silus Morde
11
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 20:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:TL;DR
Wall of words.
If you do not like EVE, do not play EVE. I am a miner/mission runner. I do not fight other players except in time of war. That is my gameplay choice. I am aware that the choice of gameplay of some others in this game is to try to annoy people like me. So be it. I will say that they annoy me far less than some one who comes to the forums and cries because not everyone plays the game the way he or she likes the game to be played. I do believe CCP intended for the players to pretty much make the game what they want. They do adress petitions about game play. I think the game is great. When I do mine I do it in a ship I can afford to lose, aligned to either a station or a gate, I keep on eye an the local chat, watch for non-mining ships in my belt, and above all do not cry tears when someone is successful in their chosen type of gameplay. If I just wanted to mine in peace and fear nothing I could find a single player game and play that. I play EVE because of the danger of people trying to kill me. without the pirates, gankers, and bumpers the game would be stale. So, I respectfully disagree with your wall of words, fly safe. Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. |

Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
175
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 20:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
The TL;DR was too long, man. |

Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1124
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm bored, and couldn't bring myself to read that... "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |

DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
I wasn't expecting too much in the way of coherent replies. I already know what class of players you are based on how you respond here.
You don't disappoint. |

DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
piecakes's brother wrote:no one cares... about what you think
Didnt read cause it was long and I dont like reading
I can say the same about that statement, which begs the question as to why you would bother even saying so, unless you thought it would annoy me, which bring me back to my post anyway.
Leved to see that some topics you started were locked. Congrats on your ability to communicate.
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Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
576
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
All of these problems you've mentioned have solutions. Considering the players that are doing this have often outlined exactly what and how they're doing so others can follow in their footsteps, working out and implimenting a defense shouldn't be too difficult. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |

DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:All of these problems you've mentioned have solutions. Considering the players that are doing this have often outlined exactly what and how they're doing so others can follow in their footsteps, working out and implimenting a defense shouldn't be too difficult.
I fully agree, the only problem I have come across is that the counters require far more work then the actual tactics, so it's never done.
You can protect a Freighter only by scouting ahead, as there's no amount of ships you could use to defend it that can stop an alpha gank, and now, people just need to stay logged off and do a log in warp to a gate to do a gank, meaning a scout will only pick up one frig at beat at the gate, not even that if it's cloaked.
Too many mechanics just "work" and have no counters. POS Bowling was one, and eventually CCP had to step in.
We cant even look outside the station we are docked at, and get "traffic control" or whatever to tell us who is within 200 km of the station. How realistic is that? |

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7017
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Why do you make me read things?  "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
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DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Silus Morde wrote:DSpite Culhach wrote:TL;DR
Wall of words.
If you do not like EVE, do not play EVE. I am a miner/mission runner. I do not fight other players except in time of war. That is my gameplay choice. I am aware that the choice of gameplay of some others in this game is to try to annoy people like me. So be it. I will say that they annoy me far less than some one who comes to the forums and cries because not everyone plays the game the way he or she likes the game to be played. I do believe CCP intended for the players to pretty much make the game what they want. They do adress petitions about game play. I think the game is great. When I do mine I do it in a ship I can afford to lose, aligned to either a station or a gate, I keep on eye an the local chat, watch for non-mining ships in my belt, and above all do not cry tears when someone is successful in their chosen type of gameplay. If I just wanted to mine in peace and fear nothing I could find a single player game and play that. I play EVE because of the danger of people trying to kill me. without the pirates, gankers, and bumpers the game would be stale. So, I respectfully disagree with your wall of words, fly safe.
EvE is not a game that's boxed up, handed to you and you get told "this is it, like it or lump it". You can go away for a year, come back, and the game is totally different. You're argument of "if you don't like it don't play" makes no sense, as I can like it fine one day, and the next they can screw up something so bad that something becomes impossible to do, like when most missions had "all room aggro", then they introduce tons more content and it becomes fun again.
I don't want space safer, I want mechanics that don't allow cheap tactics to be all effective. EvE currently does not provide enough Intel to players. We cant tell who is just outside our station without undocking, we can't tell our ship is being scanned even thought we just had an energy beam powerful enough to penetrate shields and bounce off every item in our cargohold, we cant kick people out of corps because "they are not docked", the ability to bump a freighter with a frigate at a gate until the "hit squad" can execute a log-in gate gank so they can stay hidden ... the list goes on.
Stale mechanics from a PvP only game, and CCP is trying to lure more players to play it as an MMO. And you think everything is fine?
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DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Why do you make me read things? 
My apologies. I don't always know what people may or may not want to read. |

Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
176
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 21:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:I wasn't expecting too much in the way of coherent replies. I already know what class of players you are based on how you respond here.
You don't disappoint.
Well, we kind of go like that when we read some emo teen wall of text. Go figure... |

Kane Alvo
Coronis Corporation
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 22:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:I wasn't expecting too much in the way of coherent replies. I already know what class of players you are based on how you respond here.
You don't disappoint.
Such is the Eve Online forums.
In my 12 years of gaming, I've never seen such a collection of interweb tough guys and asshattery that graces these boards on a daily basis. It's to be expected of most gaming forums, particularly in the PvP sections, but Eve takes it to a whole new level. At least for other games, the forums are somewhat of a resource and a gathering of community. Here, not so much.
As far as I've seen anyway, there's very little to be gained by posting anything of significance on these boards. |

DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 22:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:DSpite Culhach wrote:I wasn't expecting too much in the way of coherent replies. I already know what class of players you are based on how you respond here.
You don't disappoint. Well, we kind of go like that when we read some emo teen wall of text. Go figure...
And I will state once again, for the record, that the normal point of a forum is to at least say something constructive.
"Oh no, too long didnt read" or "even the TL;DR was too long" ... mmm, not constructive. Save your breath, move along then maybe?
Did you actually have something interesting to add to the conversation or were you driving through? Is reading 3 lines really so much effort? You could have written "I don't agree" and at least It would have been taking a position.
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Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5193
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 22:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
To the last 2 posters, the forums are very much part of the game, it's where a lot of the meta-gaming is carried out. I don't play any other MMO's so I haven't browsed their forums to see if the same holds true.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's a goonspiracy. |

DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 22:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote:DSpite Culhach wrote:I wasn't expecting too much in the way of coherent replies. I already know what class of players you are based on how you respond here.
You don't disappoint. Such is the Eve Online forums. In my 12 years of gaming, I've never seen such a collection of interweb tough guys and asshattery that graces these boards on a daily basis. It's to be expected of most gaming forums, particularly in the PvP sections, but Eve takes it to a whole new level. At least for other games, the forums are somewhat of a resource and a gathering of community. Here, not so much. As far as I've seen anyway, there's very little to be gained by posting anything of significance on these boards.
I wasnt expecting 4 page replies on why I was wrong, I was also hoping not to get the usual one liners. EvE has incredible amounts of potential, but it seems to be stagnating around a very small pool of possibilities.
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Silus Morde
11
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 22:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:Silus Morde wrote:DSpite Culhach wrote:TL;DR
Wall of words.
If you do not like EVE, do not play EVE. I am a miner/mission runner. I do not fight other players except in time of war. That is my gameplay choice. I am aware that the choice of gameplay of some others in this game is to try to annoy people like me. So be it. I will say that they annoy me far less than some one who comes to the forums and cries because not everyone plays the game the way he or she likes the game to be played. I do believe CCP intended for the players to pretty much make the game what they want. They do adress petitions about game play. I think the game is great. When I do mine I do it in a ship I can afford to lose, aligned to either a station or a gate, I keep on eye an the local chat, watch for non-mining ships in my belt, and above all do not cry tears when someone is successful in their chosen type of gameplay. If I just wanted to mine in peace and fear nothing I could find a single player game and play that. I play EVE because of the danger of people trying to kill me. without the pirates, gankers, and bumpers the game would be stale. So, I respectfully disagree with your wall of words, fly safe. EvE is not a game that's boxed up, handed to you and you get told "this is it, like it or lump it". You can go away for a year, come back, and the game is totally different. You're argument of "if you don't like it don't play" makes no sense, as I can like it fine one day, and the next they can screw up something so bad that something becomes impossible to do, like when most missions had "all room aggro", then they introduce tons more content and it becomes fun again. I don't want space safer, I want mechanics that don't allow cheap tactics to be all effective. EvE currently does not provide enough Intel to players. We cant tell who is just outside our station without undocking, we can't tell our ship is being scanned even thought we just had an energy beam powerful enough to penetrate shields and bounce off every item in our cargohold, we cant kick people out of corps because "they are not docked", the ability to bump a freighter with a frigate at a gate until the "hit squad" can execute a log-in gate gank so they can stay hidden ... the list goes on. Stale mechanics from a PvP only game, and CCP is trying to lure more players to play it as an MMO. And you think everything is fine? I just don't cry in the forums about what I don't like. I adapt to the problem and get around it. I don't cheat, I don't care if others do, that's on them. I just don't want to hear people cry about the game being this or that. I stand by: If you don't like it, don't play it - for 1 day, 1 month or forever, I don't care cause I'll be playing it while you go play something else. Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. |

Cannibal Kane
Chosen of New Eden
1304
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 22:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kane Alvo wrote:DSpite Culhach wrote:I wasn't expecting too much in the way of coherent replies. I already know what class of players you are based on how you respond here.
You don't disappoint. Such is the Eve Online forums. In my 12 years of gaming, I've never seen such a collection of interweb tough guys and asshattery that graces these boards on a daily basis. It's to be expected of most gaming forums, particularly in the PvP sections, but Eve takes it to a whole new level. At least for other games, the forums are somewhat of a resource and a gathering of community. Here, not so much. As far as I've seen anyway, there's very little to be gained by posting anything of significance on these boards.
Not true...
The forums is a valuable source of war decs for me which your corp will be part of soon. I will then display my asshattery in game. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |

Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
176
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 23:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:DSpite Culhach wrote:I wasn't expecting too much in the way of coherent replies. I already know what class of players you are based on how you respond here.
You don't disappoint. Well, we kind of go like that when we read some emo teen wall of text. Go figure... And I will state once again, for the record, that the normal point of a forum is to at least say something constructive. "Oh no, too long didnt read" or "even the TL;DR was too long" ... mmm, not constructive. Save your breath, move along then maybe? Did you actually have something interesting to add to the conversation or were you driving through? Is reading 3 lines really so much effort? You could have written "I don't agree" and at least It would have been taking a position.
I see your mistake. This is the seccion where you make fun of who you kill, or rage quit/contract mercs when you are not strong enough to take care of your butthurt.
Later! |
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Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5199
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 23:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote: Not true...
The forums is a valuable source of war decs for me which your corp will be part of soon. I will then display my asshattery in game.
Another shiptoaster bites the dust.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's a goonspiracy. |

piecakes's brother
Blunderbuss Trade Co
9
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 01:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:piecakes's brother wrote:no one cares... about what you think
Didnt read cause it was long and I dont like reading I can say the same about that statement, which begs the question as to why you would bother even saying so, unless you thought it would annoy me, which bring me back to my post anyway. Leved to see that some topics you started were locked. Congrats on your ability to communicate. By the way, you posted this line "I should be able to rant about whatever i ******* feel like... esp if its true", so yea, think before you open your mouth. Sorry only got through first sentence... and then i remebered that I dont care |

Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
226
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 02:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:
I wasnt expecting 4 page replies on why I was wrong, I was also hoping not to get the usual one liners. EvE has incredible amounts of potential, but it seems to be stagnating around a very small pool of possibilities.
You are not wrong.
Eve is full fof asshats and morons.
It also have thousand sof players doing the 'day to day' stuff like mining and missions and sell cheap stuff.
You my friend have had the unfortunate pleasure of the company of some of the more underhanded players. Now if you think on what you would like ot do more of in EVE then go and speak to players who that you will find that EVE does in fact have huge potential for whatever game play you desire.
Just as you accuse people of forcing 'thier' gameplay onto you you are complaining that you can't force people to do what you think they should i.e. leave you alone.
EVE is a free world so to spoke. Guess what? you get asshats and douches in all free worlds. Just look at our own little earth and tell me the majority of people aren't asshats or douches.
YOU have to find YOUR way in eve. Not be handed it on a silver platter. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |

Mike Adoulin
Trans-Aerospace Industries
157
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 03:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:..........but you all seem to want a universe full of blood thirsty, crazed killers that gank anything they see, and where so many players avoid the markets and courier missions because more often then not they are traps. That's not a sandbox MMO universe, that's Pirates Online.
You say this like its a bad thing.
Also, yarrr, mateys.
 |

No Alibi
Shadow Brokers
22
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 04:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
The harder you try to understand.... the worse it will be. I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my-áass is always on fire! |

No Alibi
Shadow Brokers
22
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 04:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
BTW Don't cry.... It gets better. I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my-áass is always on fire! |

culo duro
Federal Enslavement
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 12:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
This have been said many times in eve, to both young and older characters that prefer to just do stuff in high sec.
What you forgot about what you said, is that thoes mechanics don't only go against you, it goes for everyone.
If you're flying a freighter and you're scared of people catching you on a gate, use your scouts with webs on it, you can make your freighter almost insta warp out of there.
Besides saying it takes half a year to fly a marauder properly, would be and understatement, last time i check i got 12M SP in gunnery skills, and i wouldn't put my ass in a marauder yet.
It takes time to train stuff in eve, and that's the beauty of it tbh. Stuff takes time in eve, if you don't like that, maybe you should fly another game. Eve isn't for everyone.
I'd like to state that the reason that people dec corps where it's one sided is just a flaw in your corp. As someone else said, you can choose to not fight during that period. Your barge got blown up in a war? well were you watching local actively or were you afk mining?
Being in a corp in eve is really the fun part, doing stuff with other players. Get out of the NPC corp and get started in eve man, AFK mining and running missions 24/7 for isk is plain out boring.
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Zol Interbottom
Nanotrasen Inc
149
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 13:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm too tired to reply properly, but it seems that you need to learn to adapt |

Marlon Darmazaf
e-L00T Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 15:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Blah blah. In essence, you don't like the people who make life miserable for you and complain about the nature of the game. 
Let's face it, Eve, like any game, gets boring after a bit, and since people don't want to go to another game, they start to look for new ways to entertain themselves. The nature of the game invites a certain subset of society that likes to gank/interfere/annoy--typically actions that would get them banned from less forward-thinking MMOs--and that's who shows up. Not everyone, just a good portion.
Ignore them, or factor in their interference in your profit margins, or allow it to bother you. Your choice.
Enjoy the choice!
(P.S.) Choosing to complain in C&P is probably not a good choice. |

Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 15:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Constructive Criticism:
Drink a cup of concrete.
This is really what it boils down to, and you expecting people to make only replies that you agree with, well...
it's basically the same as you expecting people to only play the game in ways that don't affect you.
another sign you need to Harden The **** Up |
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