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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Feta Solamnia	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:33:00 - [61] Lol, I thought there existed no "griefers" in the strict meaning of the term, I thought the party on the receiving end was exaggerating always. But after reading this, I gotta admit I was wrong... Heh, don't wrry about a damn can of ore man. You probably enjoyed mining it while drinking and smoking varius substances () with your buddies. Imagine now the the depraved superiority complex and atrophied ego that showed up and did something as pointless as that. I mean... damn... Someone needs to get laid
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:33:00 - [62] Originally by: Ivana Killya Erm no! mine a bs in 3-4 hrs Then you're a part-time miner. Originally by: Ivana Killya most pvpers have lots of ships ready No stock is so large that it won't be exhausted eventually Originally by: Ivana Killya people bail from there ships and leave them for you They still had to get that ship from somewhere Originally by: Ivana Killya kill one npc get lucky and buy a ship ransom people and buy a ship sell some loot and buy a ship Where are you going to buy it from? If all the miners are on strike, then there would be no minerals for sale, so nothing for producers to build with, so nothing on the market. We would be back to subsistence mining, which would be very bad for the whole of eve. Much as you might like to believe otherwise, things don't just appear on the market by magic.
Lo3d3R	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:34:00 - [63] Originally by: Joshua Calvert a fanatical amrrian ore liberator hehehehe
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:35:00 - [64] If all miners went on strike I'd make a fortune from doing rogue drone missions and refining shuttles. Miners are not as important as they like to think, we just humour them. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:40:00 - [65] look up a few posts i just told you lots of ways of paying for a ship and as i said do as you wish as when ur not making isk pvpers still will be any way back on topic i have also said why he may have do it so end of,he cant be greifing if he has a reason Ivana new corp josh? leroy your such a d**k!! "least i got chicken" is that the one josh?
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:46:00 - [66] Originally by: Avon If all miners went on strike I'd make a fortune from doing rogue drone missions and refining shuttles. Miners are not as important as they like to think, we just humour them. No playstyle is as important as they like to think. Eve would survive the loss of any one of them. But it would leave eve as a noticably different, and worse, game. Of course the game would survive the loss of miners. But it would jeapoardise the player-based nature of the market. Farming rogue drone missions for minerals is far less efficient than mining, and could never replace all the supply miners produce. As soon as you start relying on refining NPC goods for mineral supply, the NPC's control the market. Everything would be locked in place by the NPC-set price for minerals. While the pure PvP crowd probably wouldn't care, anyone involved in the industrial side of the game would.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:49:00 - [67] Originally by: Ivana Killya look up a few posts i just told you lots of ways of paying for a ship And my point was that if the miner strike managed to have the intended effect of stifling mineral supply, there wouldn't be the ships there to buy. No amount of isk can buy what simply isn't there. Unfortunately, due to NPC interference in the market, the intended effect of the strike couldn't be achieved.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:50:00 - [68] I have been known to do this to people mining in "my system" to annoy them into leaving. It's the people who come and strip all the good ore with barges that really get me goat. If you want to strip my hard farmed roids, go find your own belts!
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:51:00 - [69] Edited by: Avon on 08/07/2005 09:52:04 Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Avon If all miners went on strike I'd make a fortune from doing rogue drone missions and refining shuttles. Miners are not as important as they like to think, we just humour them. No playstyle is as important as they like to think. Eve would survive the loss of any one of them. But it would leave eve as a noticably different, and worse, game. Of course the game would survive the loss of miners. But it would jeapoardise the player-based nature of the market. Farming rogue drone missions for minerals is far less efficient than mining, and could never replace all the supply miners produce. As soon as you start relying on refining NPC goods for mineral supply, the NPC's control the market. Everything would be locked in place by the NPC-set price for minerals. While the pure PvP crowd probably wouldn't care, anyone involved in the industrial side of the game would. Well, that kinda puts pay to your "PvP'rs need us" arguement then, doesn't it? Oh, and rogue drones aren't as inefficient a way to harvest minerals as you may think. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:51:00 - [70] and if pvpers didnt kill every thing all day long why would anyone need to buy any of your stuff? pvpers drive the need for ships and mods. so its a double edge sword. Ivana

Ryctor	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:01:00 - [71] Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus At the very least allowing it to happen in secure space has and will continue to cost you alot of customers in my opinion. I really don't know for sure. I don't have the figures, but thats what I think. Yes because SOOOOOO many people quit over someone stealing their ore/ice/ "gasp" time "gasp"
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:06:00 - [72] Originally by: Avon Well, that kinda puts pay to your "PvP'rs need us" arguement then, doesn't it? Only if PvP'ers are happy with reverting back to an NPC-led market. Of course, there are probably some PvP'ers who'd happily have a pure NPC market, and kick every miner and producer out of the game. But Eve certainly would be a worse game if that happened...unless you're looking for CS-in-space, of course. The problem is that a lot of PvP players simply don't seem to think about the industral side of the game. They take it for granted that these things happen. They'd only realise what the player-centred industrial system did for them when it was gone. That's the problem with an industry that's working well - no-one notices it. No-one accaims the industrial corp providing reliable supplies at reasonable prices, they take it for granted. The only time most players take any notice of the market and industry is when something goes wrong. Originally by: Avon Oh, and rogue drones aren't as inefficient way to harvest minerals as you may think. Maybe not for the high-ends, but you can't build much with zyd and mega alone. I can mine up 1.7mill trit an hour easily with a single char. Could you hope to come anywhere near that by harvesting rogue drones?
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:15:00 - [73] Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Avon Well, that kinda puts pay to your "PvP'rs need us" arguement then, doesn't it? Only if PvP'ers are happy with reverting back to an NPC-led market. Of course, there are probably some PvP'ers who'd happily have a pure NPC market, and kick every miner and producer out of the game. But Eve certainly would be a worse game if that happened...unless you're looking for CS-in-space, of course. The problem is that a lot of PvP players simply don't seem to think about the industral side of the game. They take it for granted that these things happen. They'd only realise what the player-centred industrial system did for them when it was gone. That's the problem with an industry that's working well - no-one notices it. No-one accaims the industrial corp providing reliable supplies at reasonable prices, they take it for granted. The only time most players take any notice of the market and industry is when something goes wrong. Most PvP corps have no problems supplying their own needs Quote: Originally by: Avon Oh, and rogue drones aren't as inefficient way to harvest minerals as you may think. Maybe not for the high-ends, but you can't build much with zyd and mega alone. I can mine up 1.7mill trit an hour easily with a single char. Could you hope to come anywhere near that by harvesting rogue drones? Sell Mega & Zyd, buy shuttles. Anyway, I seem to have a huge stack of minerals from refining rogue drone and general loot .. all that trit must have come from somewhere. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:15:00 - [74] Originally by: Ivana Killya and if pvpers didnt kill every thing all day long why would anyone need to buy any of your stuff? pvpers drive the need for ships and mods. so its a double edge sword. PvE'ers do lose ships too, though admittedly not at the same rate as PvP'ers. Oh, and I believe I did mention this applying to all professions... Originally by: Matthew No playstyle is as important as they like to think. Eve would survive the loss of any one of them. But it would leave eve as a noticably different, and worse, game Oh yes, there it was. I simply chose to expand on mining as it was the profession being talked about. You're right about it being a double-edged sword, and it's one right at the centre of eve. If it falls either way, it'll do damage to the game, but the game will survive a single cut. Unfortunately, a large part of the eve community seems to want to shove against that sword, and push it over one way or the other. Which leads to a lot of unneccessary bitterness on all sides. But I guess it's too much to hope for that we come to an agreement to prop the sword up and leave it there.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Matthew Unfortunately, a large part of the eve community seems to want to shove against that sword, and push it over one way or the other. Which leads to a lot of unneccessary bitterness on all sides. But I guess it's too much to hope for that we come to an agreement to prop the sword up and leave it there. /emote looks at OP Who's pushing that sword? ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Prospectus	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:18:00 - [76] Really, it's one thing to play a badguy in an RPG ("yarr, matey! yer gold or yer life!") and being a real-life jerk. It's simply bad behavior. I can't believe people think it's okay. Griefing (if it was in fact griefing) is bad behavior, no matter if it's in a game environment (destroying ore for no reason other than to annoy) or in real life (keying someone's car door). Now if the ore destroyer had said, "let this be a lesson to you: never cross the Corleone Cartel," (or something like that) then wouldn't have been bad.
Deakin Frost	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:19:00 - [77] Originally by: Noriath Shame on you CCP. You're game is known as Grief Online anyways, now you put another way into to grief people and get away with it, admit that using it to destroy what people have worked for is wrong, and then don't do anything about it? Moving ore and popping cans did work since ages before the patch, and it worked well. Quote: And anyone who wants to recomend secure containers to me should try to anchor one within mining range of any profitable highsec belt first. That should make my point against them. A lot of people anchor giant cans all the time in highsec belts and happily mine. It's your problem if you can't run a semidecent tank to mine in highsec (0.7 is still highsec). It's also your problem that you run a Miner -1, because you apparently dont have a 10km mining range, judging your complaining in here.
Ivana Killya	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:26:00 - [78] Edited by: Ivana Killya on 08/07/2005 10:30:10 But maybe the person that hired him told him not to say anything, you cant just assume,He dont have to tell you why! Ivana
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:33:00 - [79] Firstly, I think shooting cans outside of war situations is lame. Secondly, I think hiding in NPC corps should be impossible. Thirdly, what does it matter wether he takes your ore or blows it up ? _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Newport Menthol	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:38:00 - [80] How much ore did he destroy? Why didn't you have a hauler nearby? Greedy for the extra yield from having an extra miner? Why would you petition him instead of growing a pair and taking matters into your own hands? Why would you blame CCP for your total lack of taking precautions E.G. Secure cans and a hauler nearby?

Ante	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:10:00 - [81] I'm not sure if anybody else has said this yet because I really cannot be bothered reading another 5 pages of a thread at 4 o'clock in the morning... I get a chuckle from the story of somebody complaining about the loss of ore out of a non-secure can. Funny how secure cans are secure and non-secure cans aren't.
hired goon	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:24:00 - [82] Originally by: Ante Funny how secure cans are secure and non-secure cans aren't. LIES ------------ We come in peace. And tanks.
anter	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:27:00 - [83] 5 pages of "booo hooo"
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:29:00 - [84] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Matthew Unfortunately, a large part of the eve community seems to want to shove against that sword, and push it over one way or the other. Which leads to a lot of unneccessary bitterness on all sides. But I guess it's too much to hope for that we come to an agreement to prop the sword up and leave it there. /emote looks at OP Who's pushing that sword? By saying "pushing one way or the other", I thought I was inferring that there were people pushing on both sides. This thread, it's a shove from the industrialists wanting safer jet-cans. Next thread it'll likely be someone wanting no jet-cans at all. Really, jet-cans are a broken solution to the needs of bulk mining that leads the sword wobbling freely. I would love for them to be replaced with a proper, considered system that could stabilise the sword a bit. Just removing jet-cans would be bad. Removing jet-cans and replacing them with an alternative, would be better. Temporary bulk storage of ore in a belt should be an option. Secure temporary bulk storage of ore in a belt should be an option. Since secure cans were last looked at, Eve has gained a whole new set of mechanisms for anchored stuff. Lets make use of them. The feature-set of POS could easily be adapted into a useful Temporary Ore Silo Originally by: Deakin Frost A lot of people anchor giant cans all the time in highsec belts and happily mine. It's your problem if you can't run a semidecent tank to mine in highsec (0.7 is still highsec). It's also your problem that you run a Miner -1, because you apparently dont have a 10km mining range, judging your complaining in here. I believe his point was that, as lots of people anchor cans in highsec belts, the belts get easily choked with secure cans. With the 5km anchoring rule, it doesn't take many cans to be there already before you can't put any more within 15km strip-miner range of the roids. Regardless of anything else, this alone prevents the widespread adoption of secure cans in mining.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:29:00 - [85] Funny how CCP didn't change the hitpoints of jet cans. Funny how jet cans have always had **** all hitpoints. Funny how people have been griefing people like this for the entire time I have been playing this game (nearly a year). Its always been this way. That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:35:00 - [86] Originally by: Matthew I believe his point was that, as lots of people anchor cans in highsec belts, the belts get easily choked with secure cans. With the 5km anchoring rule, it doesn't take many cans to be there already before you can't put any more within 15km strip-miner range of the roids. Regardless of anything else, this alone prevents the widespread adoption of secure cans in mining. Thats easy to solve. Secure cans in belts should last a week before being automatically collected and the contents deposited in the owners hanger. But CCP haven't even removed the damn cans from 1.0's yet That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
BM Alt	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:38:00 - [87] Originally by: Noriath What bugs me is that reducing can HP has resulted in can killing, The reduction in can HP is only in regards to secure cans, jetcans have always been week and can be popped with little effort at all.
Newport Menthol	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:46:00 - [88] Originally by: theRaptor Thats easy to solve. Secure cans in belts should last a week before being automatically collected and the contents deposited in the owners hanger. But CCP haven't even removed the damn cans from 1.0's yet So, you not only want a giant container to mine into, you want it to clean itself up, have your own ore collection service, and have it be 100% safe? Yeah I'm sure the devs will get right on that Mr. Lazy McIWantEverythingHandedToMeOnASilverPlate
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:59:00 - [89] Originally by: Newport Menthol Originally by: theRaptor Thats easy to solve. Secure cans in belts should last a week before being automatically collected and the contents deposited in the owners hanger. But CCP haven't even removed the damn cans from 1.0's yet So, you not only want a giant container to mine into, you want it to clean itself up, have your own ore collection service, and have it be 100% safe? Yeah I'm sure the devs will get right on that Mr. Lazy McIWantEverythingHandedToMeOnASilverPlate No dumbass. I want all the ******* container spam out of the damn belts (and from outside stations). I have seen belts with hundreds of cans, it can take nearly a minute to load belts like that. I doubt most of the cans owners remember where they are, and a lot of them probably don't even play the game anymore. Hell if I had it my way, you would be limited by skills in the number of cans you could anchor, simply to cut down on spam. That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.07.08 12:07:00 - [90] :flashfact: CCP gave you secure cans for a reason.



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