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Fhqwhgads
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Fhqwhgads on 11/07/2005 18:25:41
Greetings,
I have a beef about how war currently works and I'm finding that I'm very much not alone. We petitioned CCP and were essentially told that this is how things are and they explained the reasoning behind how things are setup. Although their logic does make sense, our specific situation is quite problematic and I wanted to see if others in the EVE community were running into this and had any ideas.
EVE is a fairly well-balanced omniverse that generally allows players to do whatever they enjoy most in the world. This is one of the things that attracted me to it. The role-playing part of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game is quite rich. If you choose to mine, build, do R&D, trade, etc., you can setup your operation in safe space and concentrate on that. If you want to get into more PvP and POS, you can venture into low-sec space. And you spend your time training your character's skills that best lend themselves to your career path.
For the most part, this system works. But there is one feature of war that creates a loophole for pirates, giveing them a rather unfair advantage. And that is the fact that any corp can declare war on any other non-NPC corp without mutual consent. They simply have to pay the fee and make the declaration. Once war starts, they can legally fire on those corp members in what would otherwise be "safe" space.
I understand why CCP set things up this way. It does add an interesting storyline to the game and war is a viable role to play. However, it also creates an avenue for people to extort money out of small, mining corps who can't defend themselves and, in the process, deny them the roles that they have chosen. For example, I'm in a corp that essentially mines and builds items. We don't have much in the way of PvP or EW skills because that isn't the path we are following. So when a larger corp demands several million ISK in "protection" money (which we don't have) all we get is dead. When we don't pay them, they declare war on us and there's literally nothing we can do about it. It becomes impossible to mine because it's like shooting fish in a barrel. And since we all pay real-life money per month, every ship we have to mine to re-build costs us both time and very real money (and I'm not sure which one bothers me more).
I'm not really sure what a good solution would be to this problem. Perhaps war should be concentual, meaning, both parties have to agree to go to war or risk some percentage chance of CONCORD involvement. Perhaps corps should have to declare their main industry and war cannot be declared on industries. Perhaps mining corps should be able to buy protection from CONCORD. I don't know. But it is very much unbalanced at the moment.
What I do know is that we've had two corp members cancel their EVE accounts this week because of this problem. It is completely possible for a few people out of many thousand to make EVE so unplayable that people are quitting. Obviously, this sucks the fun out of things and is generally discouraging. Sooner or later, everyone loses ships and dies in EVE. But we are hemorraging ships, clones and actual players.
Anyone else have any ideas or ways around this situation? Our corp would like to get back to playing but are more or less trapped in a station until this one-sided war is over.
Thanks!
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:28:00 -
[2]
Yep. it's broke, but CCP refuses to fix it.
There are countless threads on this topic.
Try searching here for them
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Views expressed by this character in no way shape or form reflect the views of M. Corp as a whole. |
Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:40:00 -
[3]
its not broke, it works as intended... what it requires is a little imagination and some thinking. Try a merc corp to get rid of them, if that dont work try relocating, disbanding the corp, recruiting pvp'ers ect ect.
The game does 1 thig quite well, it rewards the person that wants to learn its workings and actually puts some work into the game.
and while its not an easy game to learn, I think that is what makes it so enjoyable for the long term players. If you are going to quit cause you got ganked 1 time then this probably isnt the game for you.
everything in this game is available for a price, look into merc corps to deal with empire griefers..
Zandramus
Homeless And Clueless
S.A.S
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:41:00 -
[4]
I don't believe in consensual war just to many problems with it.
But
For one it should cost a good deal more depending on the size of corp a to declare on corp b. If corp a has 50 men and b has 5 it should cost x amount more per player to declare.
A corp should be able to declare itself say once every 3 months or something as being pvp or industrial. What this should do if your declared pvp then you pay less to declare war and are cheeper to declare war on. If your declared industrial then it should cost more to declare war on your corp but cost greatly more to declare on someone else.
just my 2 cents.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:56:00 -
[5]
If you posted with your main "mercs" might see and decide to dec the people warring with you.
It happens.
I am a little confused at your choosing to post with an alt. From what you described it could hardly get much worse...
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Anh Duy
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Posted - 2005.07.11 19:59:00 -
[6]
How about if the war is non consensual between the two parties the party that decs pays more ISK for the war than when it is consensual.
Another thought is to use the noob ships and have fun practicing pvp. You won't be losing much ISK fighting back with noob ships. They will gain nothing from killing noob ship except kill mails that aren't even worth bragging about.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:02:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Anh Duy
Another thought is to use the noob ships and have fun practicing pvp.
If he wanted to practice pvp, he wouldn't be in this position in the first place 
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Firstname Lastname
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:02:00 -
[8]
Here's a tip: Learn how to fight.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zandramus
its not broke, it works as intended... what it requires is a little imagination and some thinking.
Try a merc corp to get rid of them...
ie. waste your time earning isk just to pay some other corp to fight, instead of having fun.
[qupte]if that dont work try relocating/quote]
Wasting time lugging around the galaxy to find somewhere quiet, instead of having fun. And they can find you again, anyway.
Quote:
disbanding the corp
This is pretty much the only option available. Anyone who doesn't want to risk having to deal with bullies, just has to stay in the newbie corp.
It's one of the biggest drawbacks to EVE right now; the game can be played in so many different ways - or could be, except that you can't avoid having someone who wants to PvP force himself on you.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Del Narveux
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:27:00 -
[10]
Yeah, I tend to agree...I love a good corp war but the system does open itself up to this sort of non-consentual bull**** thats basically legitimized griefing.
Perhaps they could let people hire NPC bodyguards or something, wouldnt totally fix the problem but it would at least make it more difficult for big boys to screw with little ones.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:28:00 -
[11]
CCP's Empire corp warfare is nothing short of sanctioned rape...
It needs to be looked at, and Empire wars need to go through a sanctioning process...
There needs to be a damn good reason Amarr, Gallente, Caldair & Minmatar empires let corporations in their space shoot at one another. More than just the reasoning "because I can, nah nah nana nah!"
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Views expressed by this character in no way shape or form reflect the views of M. Corp as a whole. |
w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.07.11 20:59:00 -
[12]
If one corp can in effect, pay CCP to turn a blind eye to their actions (aka: War)
Why then in turn, cant the other corp pay CCP to turn their eyes back?
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mamolian
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Posted - 2005.07.11 22:03:00 -
[13]
My corp has recently been in a similar situation.. we've had 4/5 man pvp corps declaring war, demanding isk, and not killing the established players, but instead ganking the newbies in their velators...
personally i lost my Brutix in that war, ganked by 2 battleships.. and to be honest it was both the most thrilling and worst moment in EVE for me so far :P
Eve is a total pvp game.. the game mechanics are totaly set up for pvp, especially ganking.. webbers.. no defence against them, warp jammers, have to give up vital slots and harm your tanking ability for armor tanking, to defend against a single jamming opponent..
taking a min or two to travel the 15 km to warp through a gate, or go into warp on the other side of a gate..
With my extreamly stressful RL existance, Eve is a great stress reliever.. i love setteling down for a few hours mining with my barge.. and the laugh i have just chatting with corp mates, be it doign missions, or just corp mining, more than makes up for any of the bad points in eve.
Ultimately, if a carebear corp wants to survive in eve, relativly safely, your going to have to make friends with pvp players or pvp corps..
if your considering entering space < 0.5, learn to use the galactic map to your advantage.. check to see how many people are in a particular system before you jump.. check how many ships have been destroyed in the last hour.. how many pods etc.. you can bet your ass theres gate campers on the other side just waiting to put you on the clone highway..
I was on the verge of leaving my corp, after the last war or two, but now I'll just learn to adapt i think. We've made a few friends, on both the pvp side and carebear, and im looking forward to getting some skills trained :)
Mamo
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Golden Ratio
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Posted - 2005.07.11 22:53:00 -
[14]
come on Fhqwhgads come on Fhqwhgads, go to the limit the cheat is to the limit come on now Fhqwhgads! I said oooh, ahhh Fhqwhgads oooh ahhh Fhqwhgads. Go to the limit the cheat is to the limit go to the limit Fhqwhgadsssss.
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The Golden Ratio has spoken. |
Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.07.11 23:30:00 -
[15]
Is it so hard to understand that this is one of the most important things that make eve different from so many other games - a conflict can be forced upon you. Even if you join an NPC corp, someone can still suicide gank you in the safest system there is.
I'm not going to claim that if it was not like this, a lot of players would quit. Maybe, and maybe an even bigger group of carebears would join the community.
Grow a pair or go play another game ..
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.07.11 23:34:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Is it so hard to understand that this is one of the most important things that make eve different from so many other games
No, it is not hard to understand, all you have to do is look at the subscription numbers...
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Views expressed by this character in no way shape or form reflect the views of M. Corp as a whole. |
Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.11 23:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: mamolian
Eve is a total pvp game.. the game mechanics are totaly set up for pvp, especially ganking.. webbers.. no defence against them,
ECM ? Nosfs for frigs ?
Noone can scramble or web you withoutlock or cap
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.11 23:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bhaal
Quote:
Is it so hard to understand that this is one of the most important things that make eve different from so many other games
No, it is not hard to understand, all you have to do is look at the subscription numbers...
What about them ?
eve has less subscribers than wow but eve > wow 
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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.07.12 00:01:00 -
[19]
The age old 'stay docked untill they get bored' usually works.
Better yet, figure out a way to defend yourself, be it by hiring a merc corp, (temporarily) enlisting a few pvp'ers. The only surefire way to stop your corp from being wardecced, is to show the attacking party you're not easy pickings.
This is not a problem with EvE, this is what makes EvE great. Show everybody that you're not to be messed with, and they won't mess with you. And believe me, there's plenty of way to achieve that.
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.07.12 00:33:00 -
[20]
Quote:
The age old 'stay docked untill they get bored' usually works.
Yes, great tactic, very fun too...
I'd pay $14.95/month to do that, wouldn't you?
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Views expressed by this character in no way shape or form reflect the views of M. Corp as a whole. |
Repossessed
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Posted - 2005.07.12 00:53:00 -
[21]
My corp had this same problem this week, but thanks to some of our more combat oriented pilots, the one man corp that is deccing us is having a run of ship losses.
It's part of the game, though I agree with the "sanctioned rape" remark for those that just aren't pvp oriented. Welcome to the new game of griefing, same as the old game, with a different package.
My suggestion to the original poster is the same as above. Hire mercs, get to know some PVP ppl, and start costing them the ships.
CCP and the NPC's are not gonna protect you in this game unless you protect yourself.
Wish you well with your war, and at least try to scratch their armor?
Flying at the speed of sound.......
"Coldplay"
If I want your opinion, I'll get it at missle point.....
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