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implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:55:00 -
[1]
why oh why cant you hit buildings/structures with torps/cruises like you used to b4 cold war.i understand the bit about smaller ships cos they "outryn" the explosion but now torps/cruise now vear off at last minute when shooting structures ?
this should not happen.
is it a fault ?
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:56:00 -
[2]
not every strucure is destroyable. If they don't show up in Overview, don't bother shootig them.
MSSI Forums
Provider of Prorator Blockade Runner Transport Ships in Domain |
implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:58:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Lufio II
not every strucure is destroyable. If they don't show up in Overview, don't bother shootig them.
ye i know that please read the question and answer if u know y..
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.12 16:00:00 -
[4]
Its also related to sig radius--but to be honest, a building larger than an apoc shouldn't have a sig radius of a frigate. This should be fixed.
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Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.12 16:02:00 -
[5]
so its a bug then...ah thanx man.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.12 16:21:00 -
[6]
yah do a mission supposed to kill something like a radio telescope.
Start hitting it for crap damage like your hitting a frig.
Hmm telescope isn't moving, Should be putting out a sig radius that is hugh cause----well-----it's hugh.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2005.07.12 16:25:00 -
[7]
on a sidenote.. is it just me, or do guns now too not hit the target , but a location somewhat away from the target (coincidentally where the missiles explode too)
just had this happening with some npcs shooting at me
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Manfred Doomhammer
Fleet Admiral
CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Akyr
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Posted - 2005.07.12 16:26:00 -
[8]
right, it's not moving ... but rotating, and faster it do it ...... *hmmmmm
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.12 16:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer
on a sidenote.. is it just me, or do guns now too not hit the target , but a location somewhat away from the target (coincidentally where the missiles explode too)
just had this happening with some npcs shooting at me
That is def a game glitch.
Personally I love it when you fire a missle and it apears from somewhere like a 1000meters from your ship to go after the enemy. Then you go to collect the loot can it says you are right on top of it but you cant open it cause your to far away.
Usually fixed by docking and undocking. Then again in .0 alot of time there is no dock.
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2OV3
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:24:00 -
[10]
yeah agree...when i shoot structures with missiles the damage has gone that i used to get..even with new skills at lvl 3 ?
yet buildings dont move ?
then y r they behaving like frigs ? i dont get it either mate.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:36:00 -
[11]
It's to do with the sig radius of the building. The sig radius represents how accurately the missile can track the building. You see, misiles have to explode before they impact a target because if they impacted, it would risk wrecking the detonator and the missile would be useless. So if the sig radius of the building is low, it would not be able to accurately track its position and to ensure it doesn't impact with the object it would ahve to detonate earlier, hence the decreased damage. The velocity has nothing to do with the decreased damage.
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implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.13 06:14:00 -
[12]
its a ***king giant building surely it has a bigger sig rad than a frig ?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.13 06:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: implanted
its a ***king giant building surely it has a bigger sig rad than a frig ?
It might but remember how POS have stealth arrays (not in-game yet AFAIK)? They're like signature scattering things that stop your ship/missile detecting the structure well. And you know how real life stealth bombers have paint that absorbs radar? That's kind of the same thing, it reduces the detectability of the plane. In eve, they introduced something similar with interceptors. They use special alloys to reduce signature radius, who's to say that entire serpentis lookout tower isn't made of the same stuff or isn't running some kind of stealth array/module?
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Vaaliant
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Posted - 2005.07.13 06:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nyphur
It's to do with the sig radius of the building. The sig radius represents how accurately the missile can track the building. You see, misiles have to explode before they impact a target because if they impacted, it would risk wrecking the detonator and the missile would be useless. So if the sig radius of the building is low, it would not be able to accurately track its position and to ensure it doesn't impact with the object it would ahve to detonate earlier, hence the decreased damage. The velocity has nothing to do with the decreased damage.
Thats has gotta be one of the best made up explanations/excuses to date that I've heard of as to why missiles to do crap damage...the fact that it doesnt make much sense either doesn't detract from its value 
I swear the guys at CCP should have looked into blast field values.
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gizli
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Posted - 2005.07.13 07:51:00 -
[15]
buildings dont move?...
U tellin me i didnt need to scramble that station?
-------------------------
Mwahahahahahahhahah!
_____ (\_/)
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|_| Damn rabbit
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nyphur
who's to say that entire serpentis lookout tower isn't made of the same stuff or isn't running some kind of stealth array/module?
Well, if nobody else will...
The entire Serpentis lookout tower IS NOT made of the same stuff and it IS NOT running a stealth array or module.
___________________________________________
^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.07.13 16:33:00 -
[17]
something we found yesterday with guns.
MAKE SURE TO EQUIP A WEBBER ON YOUR SHIP TO WEB THEM PESKY HIGH SPEED STRUCTURES
yes activate a webber on them structures and see what happens.
a painter has no affect respectively but a webber sure as heck did.
how funny is that.
strutures should have hugh hugh signatures and large guns should be able to hit them at 2km orbit but can not
unless webbed
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2005.07.13 16:40:00 -
[18]
hmm ive always webed the structures i just thoought its was funny, now its seems to have a point....CCP works in mysterious ways you know
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.13 16:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Nyphur on 13/07/2005 16:41:53
Originally by: Vaaliant
Thats has gotta be one of the best made up explanations/excuses to date that I've heard of as to why missiles to do crap damage...the fact that it doesnt make much sense either doesn't detract from its value
I swear the guys at CCP should have looked into blast field values.
It's based on how actual missiles have to work in real life, as far as I know. The less reliable the targetting data, the earlier the missile has to explode to avoid collision with the target. They work out the minimum distance from the target they can reasonably determine its position and detonate when they are detected as being that far away from it to avoid collision completely. This means the harder the object's position is to detect accurately, the greater the margin of error and the further away from the target the missile will have to explode.
Lower sig radius means it's harder to accurately detect the position of.
Originally by: Rasitiln
hmm ive always webed the structures i just thoought its was funny, now its seems to have a point....CCP works in mysterious ways you know
Webbing structures won't help ^^. If it does, that's a bug and it should be reported.
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Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.07.13 16:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rasitiln
hmm ive always webed the structures i just thoought its was funny, now its seems to have a point....CCP works in mysterious ways you know
Meh
Try and figure out why Concord kicks your ass for accidently scrambling a gate, i mean was I preventing it from warping away or something , but apparently thos jackasses down in Concrd think I did something offensive.
Zandramus
Homeless And Clueless
S.A.S
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implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.13 17:34:00 -
[21]
nyphur....this....
It's based on how actual missiles have to work in real life, as far as I know. The less reliable the targetting data, the earlier the missile has to explode to avoid collision with the target. They work out the minimum distance from the target they can reasonably determine its position and detonate when they are detected as being that far away from it to avoid collision completely. This means the harder the object's position is to detect accurately, the greater the margin of error and the further away from the target the missile will have to explode.
is total cwap mate....
if a missile/torp hits a building at 1000 kph or something and doesnt explode what will happen ?
ill inform you.
IT WILL MAKE A KIN BIG HOLE IN IT...
so its flawed and stop brown nosing CCP 
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implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:26:00 -
[22]
no one has still come up with a reason why torps/missiles now dont hit structures which dont move and have a massive sig radius ...please fix this ccp.
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Dr Cball
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: implanted
so its a bug then...ah thanx man.
whaaaa....bugs in Eve, NEVER, LIES!!!
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Rocius
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:00:00 -
[24]
No Crap.....
I get simmiliar results from my 720mm II's ......
How in the hell can I miss 3 shots in a row with em???? I was 20km from a structure, and was NOT MOVING..... why do I miss like that???? It makes NO SENSE AT ALL
shots fired at structures, if from guns or missles, should NEVER MISS..... they should do decent damage nearly ALL THE TIME..... thats just stupid that they dont.
Dont take your gaming too serious ! |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:05:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Nyphur on 14/07/2005 21:05:55
Originally by: implanted
nyphur....this....
if a missile/torp hits a building at 1000 kph or something and doesnt explode what will happen ?
ill inform you.
IT WILL MAKE A KIN BIG HOLE IN IT...
Yeah, it'll make a hole in it. And? If it explodes beside it, it'd destroy the entire building. A missile in eve colliding with a ship could be like a bullet hitting a tank. The armour on space ships is not made of cement, it's made of tougher alloys than we have. The missiles themselves deal more damage than we can deal in reality right now. A rocket from eve could probably take out a tank in reality.
In short, the momentum imparted by a torpedo impacting on a ship in eve would be less than 1 damage. The real damage comes from the missile eploding.
Originally by: implanted
no one has still come up with a reason why torps/missiles now dont hit structures which dont move and have a massive sig radius ...please fix this ccp.
I did but you ignored it.
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implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:09:00 -
[26]
nyphur for your information structures have a much bigger sig rad than a frig so stick to thread and someone please tell me y we cant hit structures anymore ?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: implanted
nyphur for your information structures have a much bigger sig rad than a frig so stick to thread and someone please tell me y we cant hit structures anymore ?
Er.. If structures had a bigger sig radius than a frig, missiles would hit structures for more damage than they do on stationary frigates. Can you point me to where you're getting the information that structures have bigger sig radii than frigates? Because I haven't seen the sig radius of NPC structures put anywhere.
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Citizen Angstrom
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: implanted
nyphur for your information structures have a much bigger sig rad than a frig so stick to thread and someone please tell me y we cant hit structures anymore ?
Er.. If structures had a bigger sig radius than a frig, missiles would hit structures for more damage than they do on stationary frigates. Can you point me to where you're getting the information that structures have bigger sig radii than frigates? Because I haven't seen the sig radius of NPC structures put anywhere.
I've mentioned this in various threads already, including the feedback forum prior to Cold War patch launch. It is completely InSaNe that a multiple-kilometer diameter space station can 'dodge' a missile better than a battleship. or that it can dodge at all, for that matter.
Unfortunately, when CCP finalised the code for the missile nerfs, they forgot about structures. And when they remembered, it was too late. At some stage, I guess they'll sort this out... Until then, it's the most visible and objectionable part of the missile nerfs.
Thank goodness I started learning Amarr ships and weapons last year, when all this talk of 'missile balancing' first started! I don't think I could stand all the mining or trading otherwise... 
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Vaaliant
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Posted - 2005.07.14 22:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 13/07/2005 16:41:53
It's based on how actual missiles have to work in real life, as far as I know. The less reliable the targetting data, the earlier the missile has to explode to avoid collision with the target. They work out the minimum distance from the target they can reasonably determine its position and detonate when they are detected as being that far away from it to avoid collision completely. This means the harder the object's position is to detect accurately, the greater the margin of error and the further away from the target the missile will have to explode.
Lower sig radius means it's harder to accurately detect the position of.
Originally by: Rasitiln
hmm ive always webed the structures i just thoought its was funny, now its seems to have a point....CCP works in mysterious ways you know
Webbing structures won't help ^^. If it does, that's a bug and it should be reported.
Missiles don't work that way in real life. Missiles (air to air, surface to air and TBM interceptors) use generally a proximity kill effect where their blast combined with the shrapnel creates a mission kill on the target, the closer the blast is to the target the more effective the kill (there are also kinetic kill vehicles for ballistic interception). What the current missile system doesn't take into account is that missile targetting data can BE accurate, hence why no one ever sees things like wrecking damage shots with a missile and why we generally see crap damages even with lights. Also another example that hasn't been explained is that of guided torpedos, wire guided missiles like maverick/TOW2/Milan etc and the various bunker buster class of missiles (from SLAM-ER to JASSM to even Harpoon) which can slag heavy objects. A lot of missiles actually are designed to penetrate then explode or have shaped charge warheads designed to take on heavily armored objects. None of that is in EVE.
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
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Posted - 2005.07.14 22:37:00 -
[30]
Has CCP been taken over by Maxis, and is EVE turning into The Sims in Space(tm)
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