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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sentani on 13/07/2005 08:21:43
i allways liked the minmatar frigates... atleast in transport uses...
i thaugth... ok the riffter is really good... think ill train the cruisers...
i did... was horrified over the fact that you cant even fitt a few 650mm howies without filling the lows with RCUs (engineering5)...
i forgot about the minmatar ships... dissmissing them for glorified trash...
and then i see the jagerbomber in action and.. well it was fun...
maybe i should rethink my stance ?
anyway... im gona train minmatar BS on test... just to confirm
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:22:00 -
[2]
Is there any cruisers that can fit big guns without using lots of RCUs?
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sentani on 13/07/2005 08:24:13
moa, thorax... the list goes on...
anyway i had a med armor repair on... i know that sucked alot of power but i dont like to fly untanked
by theway the minie cruiser was a rupture
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:29:00 -
[4]
Even with Engineering 5 I can't use Medium Neutrons on a Thorax without sacrifing... everything, for those guns.
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:33:00 -
[5]
i can fly a rax with 5 200mm rails and i can use 5 ion blaster with only one RCU/PDU
720mm are in the same class as the neurtrons and 250mm
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:35:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Sentani
Edited by: Sentani on 13/07/2005 08:24:13
moa, thorax... the list goes on...
anyway i had a med armor repair on... i know that sucked alot of power but i dont like to fly untanked
by theway the minie cruiser was a rupture
The Moa can fit a full rack of 250s & Heavy launchers? Not when I last flew one, by a long stretch. If the PG/CPU has changed so you can, I'd be surprised.
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:38:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sentani on 13/07/2005 08:40:02
i used this Moa setup for PvE...
4x 250mm carbide 2x standard heavies
1x T2 AB 1x netron sat Sbooster 2x hardners
2x T2 magstabs 1x PDU 1x RCU
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:41:00 -
[8]
must have had 'nooby' skills when I last tried to fit one!
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.13 09:15:00 -
[9]
IMO, unless theres a lot to gain by fitting the larger guns, you can almost always fit a smaller set of guns and a damage mod in place of the RCU and get more damage.
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Agnar Koladrov
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Posted - 2005.07.13 09:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Is there any cruisers that can fit big guns without using lots of RCUs?
Just for detail, the 650mm howies are NOT the big medium guns, they are the smallest of the med ones. The 720mm howies are the big ones, that you can fit a full rack of them would be understandable.
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Sentani
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Posted - 2005.07.13 09:57:00 -
[11]
i kinda think 650s are medium-medium guns...
minmatars dont have dual 280s with is kinda weird if you ask me 8/
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:15:00 -
[12]
Minmatar long range guns fall under two categories:
Artillary and Howitzer Artillary.
Artillary is the lighter easier to fit and generally more useful against smaller targets
Howitzer Artillary is the heavier harder to fit sniping and alpha strike gun
I generally go for Artillary over Howitzer Artillary, better DoT in general.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Uncle Chuckles
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gunstar Zero
Originally by: Sentani
Edited by: Sentani on 13/07/2005 08:24:13
moa, thorax... the list goes on...
anyway i had a med armor repair on... i know that sucked alot of power but i dont like to fly untanked
by theway the minie cruiser was a rupture
The Moa can fit a full rack of 250s & Heavy launchers? Not when I last flew one, by a long stretch. If the PG/CPU has changed so you can, I'd be surprised.
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
Is there any cruisers that can fit big guns without using lots of RCUs?
650s are not big guns, they are the smallest Medium arty. They are comparable to 200s or focused medium beams. A rupture cant fit FOUR of them, I don't think. Don't even get me started on trying to fit 4 720s on a rupture.
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Siroc
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:28:00 -
[14]
Rupture can host 4 720mm easy with couple PG mods in the lows with some reasonable skill in Engeneering. 720mm range is long enough to be able to stay out of enemy's range so no need for heavy tank. If you realy want to tank, then go close range with autocannons. As for being weak cruisers, i don't think so. Did plenty of level 3s in it. Its flexability and speed is great.
aka (Ohotnik) |
JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: JoeSomebody on 13/07/2005 18:36:05
on the other hand, fitting requirements of autocannons are kinda funny
____
When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:35:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 13/07/2005 18:36:53
Originally by: Uncle Chuckles
650s are not big guns, they are the smallest Medium arty. They are comparable to 200s or focused medium beams. A rupture cant fit FOUR of them, I don't think. Don't even get me started on trying to fit 4 720s on a rupture.
I'm pretty sure I had this setup working prepatch (ie. before increased fitting req's on launchers);
4 650's, ass launcher, light launcher
10mn ab, 2x cap recharger
Small repper, 2 membranes, gyro, tracking enhancer.
Load up with EMP, and you get hits of 80-~200 or so from 10k - 25k (iirc, haven't flown a ruppy for a while).
Used it for Shadow Serpentis 3/10 complexes, and it worked very well. This was with Engineering 5, which is something everyone should get asap.
p - l - u - r |
Uncle Chuckles
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Siroc
Rupture can host 4 720mm easy with couple PG mods in the lows with some reasonable skill in Engeneering. 720mm range is long enough to be able to stay out of enemy's range so no need for heavy tank. If you realy want to tank, then go close range with autocannons. As for being weak cruisers, i don't think so. Did plenty of level 3s in it. Its flexability and speed is great.
...........thx for missing the point of this thread.
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Ishtari
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:41:00 -
[18]
battlecruiser with full load of 650 scouts and malkuth heavies and good tank with full damage mod lows it can be done with high skills
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 13/07/2005 18:53:08
Every cruiser is gimped in fitting long range guns except the moa.
K, lets look at the best minny cruiser, trying to fit the best minny long range gun.
Rupture with engy 5 = 906.25 grid
720 1 = 250 grid
4 720s = 1000 grid
Ok, so we need some RCUs.
Rupture w/ 1 RCU = 996.875
...K still not enough, JUST TO FIT GUNS.
Rupture w/ 2 RCUs = 1096.5625
So to fit 4 720s, the rupture needs 2 RCUs, which only leaves it with 96 grid in which to fit its other 2 highs, 3 mids, and 3 lows. Lets look at other highslots. You can't fit a SINGLE heavy launcher. You can't fit TWO assault launchers. So that means realistically you need ANOTHER RCU or PDU, JUST TO FIT THE HIGHSLOTS, leaving now 2 low slots.
Oh look, you have no mwd or AB.
\o/ for gimped minny guns.
FYI: Maller w/ engy 5 = 1062.5 grid
Moa w/ engy 5 = 937.5(WHY DOES THE MOA HAVE MORE GRID THAN A RUPTURE OR THORAX!??!)
Thorax w/ engy 5 = 875 (ridiculously low)
250s = 225 grid
heavy beams = 250 grid
Anyone notice anything wrong with the fact that a moa can fit a full rack of 250s without a grid mod at all?
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:53:00 -
[20]
Seriously, 650s, 250s and 1200s SUCK. They are the equivalent of dual 250 railguns/dual 150 and 75, but much harder to fit and they track worse.
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Siroc
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:53:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Siroc on 13/07/2005 18:53:24
you don't need as many damage mods as it hits hard as it is
you don;t need armorrepair because 720mm hit farther then most cruiser sized guns.
you can fit AB, shield booster (small is enough to top the shield off against the damage you are getting from 40-50k in level 3 missions) easily and few other toys in remaining 96pg. As for missle launchers, stick couple standarts for dealing with tacklers easier.
Originally by: DrunkenOne
K, lets look at the best minny cruiser, trying to fit the best minny long range gun.
Rupture with engy 5 = 906.25 grid
720 1 = 250 grid
4 720s = 1000 grid
Ok, so we need some RCUs.
Rupture w/ 1 RCU = 996.875
...K still not enough, JUST TO FIT GUNS.
Rupture w/ 2 RCUs = 1096.5625
So to fit 4 720s, the rupture needs 2 RCUs, which only leaves it with 96 grid in which to fit its other 2 highs, 3 mids, and 3 lows. Lets look at other highslots. You can't fit a SINGLE heavy launcher. You can't fit TWO assault launchers. So that means realistically you need ANOTHER RCU or PDU, JUST TO FIT THE HIGHSLOTS, leaving now 2 low slots.
Oh look, you have no mwd or AB.
\o/ for gimped minny guns.
aka (Ohotnik) |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.13 18:54:00 -
[22]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 13/07/2005 18:58:06
Btw, Moa is seriously overpowered when it comes to fitting long range guns.
FYI:
Rupture w/ engy 5 = ~906.25 grid
Maller w/ engy 5 = 1062.5 grid
Moa w/ engy 5 = 937.5(WHY DOES THE MOA HAVE MORE GRID THAN A RUPTURE OR THORAX!??!)
Thorax w/ engy 5 = 875 (ridiculously low)
250s = 225 grid
heavy beams = 250 grid
720s = 250 grid
Anyone notice anything wrong with the fact that a moa can fit a full rack of 250s without a grid mod at all? Whereas a rupture or thorax cannot even fit 4 of their best guns without a grid mod, and the maller can but needs to fit a 5th (so does thorax). And don't say "oh cause it needs to fit launchers too," cause a maller and thorax need to fit a 5th gun and a rupture needs to fit 2 launchers as well.
Of course the funny thing is the moa also sucks, so maybe thats balanced... 
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Selim
Seriously, 650s, 250s and 1200s SUCK. They are the equivalent of dual 250 railguns/dual 150 and 75, but much harder to fit and they track worse.
My 650s hit fine, stick to Rails 
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:14:00 -
[24]
DrunkenOne
because Moa have long ranged specialization, so fittin 200/dual 150 mms on it is not and option
____
When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: JoeSomebody
DrunkenOne
because Moa have long ranged specialization, so fittin 200/dual 150 mms on it is not and option
Thorax has "short range specialization," yet cant fit a full rack of neutrons (aka the "250s" of medium blasters).
Try again.
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Siroc
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:20:00 -
[26]
Moa is not stronger then Thorax or Rupture. If it had less PG it would suck totaly. I like Rupture better even it has less PG and its harder to fit. Whats with all this Ruppy bashing here.
aka (Ohotnik) |
JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:24:00 -
[27]
sitting smaller size guns reduces both damage and optimal. Thorax does not care about optimal, since it would use AM anyway, and damage loss can be replaced by mag stabs. Moa doesnt have that option.
____
When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:26:00 -
[28]
"Btw, Moa is seriously overpowered when it comes to fitting long range guns. (..)
Of course the funny thing is the moa also sucks, so maybe thats balanced... "
Was about to said that; hardly a reason to nerf the Moa when out of all tier.3 cruisers she's likely the least popular...
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: JoeSomebody
sitting smaller size guns reduces both damage and optimal. Thorax does not care about optimal, since it would use AM anyway, and damage loss can be replaced by mag stabs. Moa doesnt have that option.
Why not? A Moa with 4 light neutrons and 2 rocket launchers would do about the same dps as a thorax with 5 light neutrons, only difference is the thorax has the big dronebay, but the moa has the 4 mids.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.13 19:40:00 -
[30]
"Why not? A Moa with 4 light neutrons and 2 rocket launchers would do about the same dps as a thorax with 5 light neutrons, only difference is the thorax has the big dronebay, but the moa has the 4 mids."
The other difference will be, Moa will bleed her cap dry during a futile attempt to close the distance enough to even get within the firing range of these neutrons -.^
and 4 mids vs 3 on Thorax yes, but she's shield tanker (in theory, anyway) so that evens out (in similar way how Thorax has one extra low, but will use it on the armour stuff)
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