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Name Lips
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.02.03 09:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Of course I'm talking about the so-called "New Order."
I don't see miner-bumping as a problem -- but a solution waiting to happen.
Any miner over a few months old knows that highsec isn't really safe. What's the saying? "By undocking you consent to pvp." If you AFK mine while doing housework, bad stuff can happen. (I'd ask they not gank the n00bs, not because it's against the rules, but because it's hard enough getting new people to play eve in the first place, let's try not to **** them off until they've bought into the concept.)
Fly cheaper, T1, insured ships. Keep your clone up to date. Use the "tank" version of mining barges (which everybody says are useless... can they survive a high-sec suicide gank? If not, they should, it would be a reasonable counter, and a nice niche for the ships.)
But assuming there's really money to be made in the "mining license" business...
...why aren't there other corps trying to get a piece of the pie?
Why aren't they fighting each other for control of the most lucrative systems? (As I understand it, most "bumpers" are criminals, and valid targets even without a wardec. So there should be high-sec criminal wars, right?)
Why aren't they "bumping" miners who dare purchase the "licenses" of their competition?
Is the "New Order" capable of defending their turf, should a new extortion corp try to muscle its way in? What would they do if somebody tried? Do they have the resources to actually, physically GUARD every miner who buys their so-called "licenses?" If not, they're not really worth the price, are they? After all, these miners are paying a premium to NOT be blown up. If they're getting blown up anyway, they're going to stop paying.
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Mike Adoulin
Trans-Aerospace Industries
165
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 10:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Read The Code more closely.
The James Gang (ROFLMAO) doesn't promise to protect anybody at all; the permit is simply to avoid being bumped/ganked by Agents/Knights. And you have to be at your keyboard and not busy; if they do a bot check and you don't answer cuz you are in the bathroom/on the phone/got the screen minimized because you are watching Netflix, you can be 'legally' bumped or ganked.
Also, any other ganker can pop you and you are required to thank said ganker for a 'Good Fight' in local.. Random gankers are part of James315 hisec; if they got you, it was a bad fit or just bad luck on your part.
The only time James will 'reimburse' the cost of your shiny mining boat is if you (a permit holder) were truly, accidentally popped by a Knight in a gank op, and you weren't AFK or anything like that (ie, Code violator).
And you had better ask him nicely, if you want that 200 million isk to replace your ice-mining Mack...:)
The Code is truly a beautiful piece of nonsense; James315 has so many outs, loopholes, and tricks in it that I think it should be framed in every law school in the world. Nigerians weep when they read it.
Basically, you pay him 10 million isk...and he owes you NOTHING. Obligations? NONE. Duties? ZERO.
The man is a genius. |
0migawa
Life of lively full life thx to shield battery
2
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Posted - 2013.02.03 10:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
You misunderstand The Code, and the New Order's mission.
Paying for a mining indulgence is similar to making a pledge. Every miner who has purchased an indulgence has also pledged to take a stand against the bots and bot-aspirants that plague Hisec. This is the essence of The Code. It is the New Order's mission to cleanse Hisec of said bots and bot-aspirants.
The beauty of the indulgence is that it allows the agents of the New Order to quickly determine who may and who may not be a bot or bot-aspirant. One could argue that a by product of the indulgence is "safety", in that one who buys the indulgence (but more importantly, pledges to stand against the bots and bot-aspirants) is obviously less likely to be bumped out of orbit when an agent is cleansing a belt/field.
I'm not sure where the idea of The New Order providing a safe mining experience to every Code compliant miner comes from. Have you read The Code?
New Halaima Code of Conduct wrote:- New Order territory is a safe space for suicide gankers. Miners are required to put aside their prejudices and treat gankers with respect.
- Upon being suicide ganked, a miner should congratulate the ganker on his success. A "good fight" or "gf" in local is customary.
For more information visit http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
I think it's due to this fundamental misunderstanding of The Code that you appropriate The New Order with a racket or extortion scheme. In truth it's neither of these. It's much more grand. The New Order is a call to arms for every citizen of Hisec, and the mining indulgences are just a way to allow miners to show solidarity and contribute to the fight. |
Wescro
Tash-Murkon Amalgamated Security
206
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Posted - 2013.02.03 11:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reserved. (In case of lock)
There may have been competition if there was any money in it. There isn't. I can't remember who phrased it this way, but overtime CCP has changed ganking (via buffs to barges, concord and nerfs to insurance etc) from a viable profession to a volunteer spectator sport, and the New Order Knights are like the New York Yankees of ganking.
This thread is awful and it should be locked. |
Turgesson
Five-0
40
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 14:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Because extorting the braindead isn't very lucrative? Embezzlement and theft are much better ways where you don't ask for the money you just take it. |
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
New Creation Collective
156
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 14:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
I tried getting some local miners to pay me 10 million isk each (or 300 mil for their alliance) for me to blue them and not gank their exhumers. After a week or so and about a dozen exhumers down, plus a few of their mission boats that they attempted to use to exercise their kill rights, still not one of them was willing to pay. Considering everything that I looted and salvaged from their wrecks I ended up about 50 million in the hole. Still, it was a quality gameplay experience and I have no regrets.
Join the Revolutionary Front and liberate New Eden from it's stuff.
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Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
1378
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Posted - 2013.02.03 14:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
0migawa wrote:You misunderstand The Code, and the New Order's mission. Paying for a mining indulgence is similar to making a pledge. Every miner who has purchased an indulgence has also pledged to take a stand against the bots and bot-aspirants that plague Hisec. This is the essence of The Code. It is the New Order's mission to cleanse Hisec of said bots and bot-aspirants. The beauty of the indulgence is that it allows the agents of the New Order to quickly determine who may and who may not be a bot or bot-aspirant. One could argue that a by product of the indulgence is "safety", in that one who buys the indulgence (but more importantly, pledges to stand against the bots and bot-aspirants) is obviously less likely to be bumped out of orbit when an agent is cleansing a belt/field. I'm not sure where the idea of The New Order providing a safe mining experience to every Code compliant miner comes from. Have you read The Code? New Halaima Code of Conduct wrote:- New Order territory is a safe space for suicide gankers. Miners are required to put aside their prejudices and treat gankers with respect.
- Upon being suicide ganked, a miner should congratulate the ganker on his success. A "good fight" or "gf" in local is customary. For more information visit http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.htmlI think it's due to this fundamental misunderstanding of The Code that you appropriate The New Order with a racket or extortion scheme. In truth it's neither of these. It's much more grand. The New Order is a call to arms for every citizen of Hisec, and the mining indulgences are just a way to allow miners to show solidarity and contribute to the fight.
Oh get over yourselfs.. it's an extortion racket plain and simple.
And no... it is not as profitable as you think. I make more isk a week from people who pay me to retract wars then those pretenders do bumping miners
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Ekphilus Erebus
Miricom Scientific
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.02.03 15:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
0migawa wrote:You misunderstand The Code, and the New Order's mission. Paying for a mining indulgence is similar to making a pledge. Every miner who has purchased an indulgence has also pledged to take a stand against the bots and bot-aspirants that plague Hisec. This is the essence of The Code. It is the New Order's mission to cleanse Hisec of said bots and bot-aspirants. The beauty of the indulgence is that it allows the agents of the New Order to quickly determine who may and who may not be a bot or bot-aspirant. One could argue that a by product of the indulgence is "safety", in that one who buys the indulgence (but more importantly, pledges to stand against the bots and bot-aspirants) is obviously less likely to be bumped out of orbit when an agent is cleansing a belt/field. I'm not sure where the idea of The New Order providing a safe mining experience to every Code compliant miner comes from. Have you read The Code? New Halaima Code of Conduct wrote:- New Order territory is a safe space for suicide gankers. Miners are required to put aside their prejudices and treat gankers with respect.
- Upon being suicide ganked, a miner should congratulate the ganker on his success. A "good fight" or "gf" in local is customary. For more information visit http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.htmlI think it's due to this fundamental misunderstanding of The Code that you appropriate The New Order with a racket or extortion scheme. In truth it's neither of these. It's much more grand. The New Order is a call to arms for every citizen of Hisec, and the mining indulgences are just a way to allow miners to show solidarity and contribute to the fight.
So if this isn't an extortion racket, why would I get blown up if I am NOT afk and I do NOT pay the 10 million, while being against bots and so-called 'bot-aspirants'? Furthermore, whoever voted and made them responsible for cleaning up the streets, so to speak? |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
7325
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Posted - 2013.02.03 16:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ekphilus Erebus wrote:0migawa wrote:You misunderstand The Code, and the New Order's mission. Paying for a mining indulgence is similar to making a pledge. Every miner who has purchased an indulgence has also pledged to take a stand against the bots and bot-aspirants that plague Hisec. This is the essence of The Code. It is the New Order's mission to cleanse Hisec of said bots and bot-aspirants. The beauty of the indulgence is that it allows the agents of the New Order to quickly determine who may and who may not be a bot or bot-aspirant. One could argue that a by product of the indulgence is "safety", in that one who buys the indulgence (but more importantly, pledges to stand against the bots and bot-aspirants) is obviously less likely to be bumped out of orbit when an agent is cleansing a belt/field. I'm not sure where the idea of The New Order providing a safe mining experience to every Code compliant miner comes from. Have you read The Code? New Halaima Code of Conduct wrote:- New Order territory is a safe space for suicide gankers. Miners are required to put aside their prejudices and treat gankers with respect.
- Upon being suicide ganked, a miner should congratulate the ganker on his success. A "good fight" or "gf" in local is customary. For more information visit http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.htmlI think it's due to this fundamental misunderstanding of The Code that you appropriate The New Order with a racket or extortion scheme. In truth it's neither of these. It's much more grand. The New Order is a call to arms for every citizen of Hisec, and the mining indulgences are just a way to allow miners to show solidarity and contribute to the fight. So if this isn't an extortion racket, why would I get blown up if I am NOT afk and I do NOT pay the 10 million, while being against bots and so-called 'bot-aspirants'? Furthermore, whoever voted and made them responsible for cleaning up the streets, so to speak?
Because that blue emo hair makes us want to harm you
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Name Lips
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.02.03 17:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Now, we all know that beyond any RP reasons, the purpose behind the New Order is to have fun with highsec ganking.
I was hoping that there was actual profit involved as well, in order to create actual competition.
I am a highsec miner, and make the majority of my isk from it. I can say that I do not want to be suicide-ganked, but I also acknowledge that it is perfectly within their rights to do so. There's an element of risk to everything in eve -- I am aware that if I AFK mine while doing the dishes that Bad Things can happen while I'm gone.
I also realize that even if I'm at the keyboard, Bad Things can still happen. But there are "reasonable precautions" a miner can take, such as not risking a T2 mining ship, making sure he's insured, aligning to station, having a reasonable tank, and so forth. Miners who don't do these things are taking risks, and it's up to them to judge these risks versus the possible rewards.
The only thing I'm philosophically opposed to in this whole scenario is the lack of profit motive. As I said, there should be competition, space-mafia turf wars, mercenary mining guards (and mining guard scams), and so on. But if there's no actual money in extorting/bumping, then we won't see any of that, and honestly that's kind of a shame. I think it would add some really interesting texture and variety to the highsec game.
Or even at the simplest level, somebody could start up an alt for the purpose of going out and destroy all of the "mining license" signposts and putting up their own, with the exact same message, but funneling the money into THEIR accounts. That way, the Order does all the dirty work, loses all the ships, and takes all the security hits, and the alt gets all the profit!
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Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5325
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Posted - 2013.02.03 18:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Name Lips wrote:
Or even at the simplest level, somebody could start up an alt for the purpose of going out and destroy all of the "mining license" signposts and putting up their own, with the exact same message, but funneling the money into THEIR accounts. That way, the Order does all the dirty work, loses all the ships, and takes all the security hits, and the alt gets all the profit!
You're a twisted and deviant individual, you fit in here quite well. 
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's a goonspiracy. |
Ekphilus Erebus
Miricom Scientific
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 18:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Because that blue emo hair makes us want to harm you
Sticks and stones may break my bones but chains and whips excite me... This isnt harming people, it's just a bunch of chickens too afraid to go against someone their own size... |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
7330
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 18:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ekphilus Erebus wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Because that blue emo hair makes us want to harm you
Sticks and stones may break my bones but chains and whips excite me... This isnt harming people, it's just a bunch of chickens too afraid to go against someone their own size...
As a child I was beaten regularly 
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Ekphilus Erebus
Miricom Scientific
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 19:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Ekphilus Erebus wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Because that blue emo hair makes us want to harm you
Sticks and stones may break my bones but chains and whips excite me... This isnt harming people, it's just a bunch of chickens too afraid to go against someone their own size... As a child I was beaten regularly
So was I, which is why I avoid harassment and abuse.
I was just talking about the whole development of the past few days, and I must admit, I would have agreed that New Order are trying for something good (since people are forced to work with escorts, to pay attention, aligned etc, as they would in low sec ops) however the fact that they try to extort protection money, no matter what name they use for it, this simple fact ruins their image and lowers them to street thug level. |
Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
595
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 21:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maybe you view them as street level thugs. I view them as a noble crusade for what they believe in.
He's the trick, though. It doesn't matter what you view them as. They're doing what they want to do and if you don't like it you're welcome to do what you can to interfere with them.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Kaemon Tzu
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.03 21:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:The man is a genius.
You spelled blubbering idiot wrong. |
Ekphilus Erebus
Miricom Scientific
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.02.03 21:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:Maybe you view them as street level thugs. I view them as a noble crusade for what they believe in.
He's the trick, though. It doesn't matter what you view them as. They're doing what they want to do and if you don't like it you're welcome to do what you can to interfere with them.
A noble crusade doesn't extort 'protection' money, or 'rights' to something that is not theirs. That's all I'm saying. Were it not for the 'permits' or whatever they like to call it, maybe more people would have thought their cause is noble. It is oppression no matter how anyone sugarcoats it. |
Jonah Gravenstein
The Burning Lotus
5328
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 22:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ekphilus Erebus wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:Maybe you view them as street level thugs. I view them as a noble crusade for what they believe in.
He's the trick, though. It doesn't matter what you view them as. They're doing what they want to do and if you don't like it you're welcome to do what you can to interfere with them. A noble crusade doesn't extort 'protection' money, or 'rights' to something that is not theirs. That's all I'm saying. Were it not for the 'permits' or whatever they like to call it, maybe more people would have thought their cause is noble. It is oppression no matter how anyone sugarcoats it.
Don't like being extorted and oppressed by the New Order? Get off your backside and do something about it.
Be better than the people who've already tried and failed to form a resistance, recruit like minded people, hire mercs, take the fight to them, just do something other than whine on the forums.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's a goonspiracy. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
Persona Non Gratis
433
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Posted - 2013.02.03 22:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Don't like being extorted and oppressed by the New Order? Get off your backside and do something about it.
Be better than the people who've already tried and failed to form a resistance, recruit like minded people, hire mercs, take the fight to them, just do something other than whine on the forums.
So simple, yet so devestatingly effective. Will anyone ever step up and lead a real resistance? If not, let's hope the rebels at least remember to vote 315.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Anya Klibor
Under the Wings of Fury
Atrocitas
179
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Posted - 2013.02.04 00:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
You guys are really boring, taking something like this seriously. |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
7362
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Posted - 2013.02.04 01:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:You guys are really boring, taking something like this seriously.
What could be more serious than this?
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
120
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Posted - 2013.02.04 02:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
0migawa wrote:For more information visit http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.htmlI think it's due to this fundamental misunderstanding of The Code that you appropriate The New Order with a racket or extortion scheme. In truth it's neither of these. It's much more grand. The New Order is a call to arms for every citizen of Hisec, and the mining indulgences are just a way to allow miners to show solidarity and contribute to the fight.
Legal counsel for the mafia have also often strenuously objected to the word racket. The "code" contains nothing which pertains to the behavior of gankers - ie you won't be "breaking" the code if you happened to shoot and pop a miner that was at keyboard, who had paid the racket money and was running the bio of shame. |
culo duro
Federal Enslavement
5
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Posted - 2013.02.04 08:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
i've had several mining character mining, i've never even seen anyone from the new order. move somewhere else? |
Mike Adoulin
Trans-Aerospace Industries
168
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Posted - 2013.02.04 12:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kaemon Tzu wrote:You spelled blubbering idiot wrong.
Well, to be honest, until you showed up I didn't have any examples of blubbering idiots to showcase.
Thanks for volunteering, here's your prize.
*trout slaps the idiot*
Also, post with your main or GTFO.
Also also, no crying in the red, noob. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
531
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 15:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
The problem is, extortion doesn't pay all that well in this case. It's more a labor of love. If the new order made a killer profit,you bet there would be competition. As they do not make a large profit, it is labor intensive, and well... An hour of mining will most likely net you more isk than an hour of bumping, anyone looking to make isk will go elsewhere. |
Intar Medris
Federation of Elsinore
35
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Posted - 2013.02.05 04:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Avoiding these idiots is easy enough.
Option 1: Move 5 or so systems away. If they show up again Move once more this time warn them this harassment you have already attempted to get away from them once. If they show up again inform CCP GM. Don't forget each time to send a mail to james315 informing to have his sheep leave you alone.
Option 2: How much area can couple dozen pilots actually cover. Move far far away.
Option 3. Skill up the need skills to survive null, and move out there. Heck you avoid all the high sec griefers, and gankers and thanks to Dark Frog you don't need to move all your stuff on your own. Need something hope in a shuttle and go to Jita. Then have Dark Frog run your new ship/gear out to your new home.
You're stupid enough to pay these idiots you deserve to be ganked. Plain and simple. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
392
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 07:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
The easy answer to your rambling question is that most high sec miners (even the new ones) are not stupid enough to pay extortion demands... They know that payment will just draw more racketeers like sharks to blood in the water. Even paying off one racketeer does not guarantee your safety against the others that will come. And finally when you get right down to it, for anyone with an IQ over 80, ganking miners gets really boring after a while.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
78
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Posted - 2013.02.05 08:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ekphilus Erebus wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:Maybe you view them as street level thugs. I view them as a noble crusade for what they believe in.
He's the trick, though. It doesn't matter what you view them as. They're doing what they want to do and if you don't like it you're welcome to do what you can to interfere with them. A noble crusade doesn't extort 'protection' money, or 'rights' to something that is not theirs. That's all I'm saying. Were it not for the 'permits' or whatever they like to call it, maybe more people would have thought their cause is noble. It is oppression no matter how anyone sugarcoats it.
"Godfrey of Bouillon was rumoured to have extorted money from the Jews of Cologne and Mainz, and many of the Crusaders wondered why they should travel thousands of miles to fight non-believers when there were already non-believers closer to home"--Tyerman, Christopher (2006). God's War: A New History of the Crusades. Cambridge: Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. ISBN 0-674-02387-0.
"The king's poverty was ever the alleged cause of his remissness; and two years after his dissolution of the association of English knights, he endeavoured to extort money from the clergy on the pretence of a journey to Syria"--Parthians, Sassanids, and Arabs, The crusades and the papacy pp 451-452 edited by Henry Smith Williams
"When our readers look back to the means employed in former crusades to extort money from all classes, as well as from the clergy, we think they will partake of our surprise at this assertion." The history of the crusades, Volume 3
By Joseph Fr. Michaud, William Robson p 26-27
3 minutes with google proves you wrong. |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
651
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 09:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Really? This nonsense again? How many alts do you guys have to self promote?
Your "tactics" are so easily thwarted by fitting a tank, orbiting, and fitting a prop mod. Either there are a LOT of really dumb people who haven't figured this out yet or these morons have an army of alts who like to talk about themselves. I'm thinking the latter.
Trolling is like art.
Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Mike Adoulin
Trans-Aerospace Industries
173
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Posted - 2013.02.05 22:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Really? This nonsense again? How many alts do you guys have to self promote?
Your "tactics" are so easily thwarted by fitting a tank, orbiting, and fitting a prop mod. Either there are a LOT of really dumb people who haven't figured this out yet or these morons have an army of alts who like to talk about themselves. I'm thinking the latter.
No...no, there are lots of really dumb people who don't fit tanks, orbit, or fit prop mods.
Cuts into the yield, ya know.
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