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Plekto
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Posted - 2005.07.14 01:35:00 -
[1]
I'm mining yet again and vultures/rats/NPC opportunists come in to attack me(never mind how unrealistic this is - it should be player vs player only, esp is low sec systems. Rats in 0.0 is silly - there are enough pirates as it is)
My problem is that I have to not only unlock the asteroid and then manually re-lock the enemy targets, but then I have to micromanage the drones. THEN after they are dead can I go back to mining. I should be able to keep mining as much as I can and the drones should, well, act like they were programmed with more AI than an Atari 2600.
There needs to be a "defend me" setting. Circling your ship is pointless as they blithely sit there and do nothing unless you micromanage them. A "aggressive defense" setting would be nice, too - anything red comes in range and they automatically attack and keep attacking anything else that they see red in the area. Once this is set, you could then just drop drones out and have them join the group. Ie - the new drones accept the command from any drones still alive and join the attack.
This way you could actually use drones in combat while actually managing your ship and own weapons.
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.07.14 01:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jennai on 14/07/2005 01:43:27
if there were no NPCs in 0.0, people would just go to some backwater system with a mining barge and solo-mine ark/bist/crokite for vast amounts of money with no risk whatsoever.
why are my 750m/s velocity ogres unable to keep up with an afterburning megathron going half their speed?
why do my drones constantly get stuck on each other when ordered to return and orbit?
why does return and orbit often cause drones to orbit outside 2500m so they can't be retrieved?
why do NPCs have such a hard-on for blowing up drones now? I don't even bother launching them in those missions with the waves of 15 thoraxes because the NPCs will all switch targets and kill them.
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Zehnder
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Posted - 2005.07.14 01:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Zehnder on 14/07/2005 01:54:07
Yeah, well, wouldn't you?
OMG, the enemy AI isn't as stupid anymore! The tunnel vision is gone, they took the blinders off! What are we ever going to do?!
But unsarcasticly, I do wish there was more drone commands than there are. This far into the future, they should be able to make me coffee.
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.07.14 02:00:00 -
[4]
it makes them useless as a main weapon system, thus making the dominix no longer viable for NPCing. I'm not going to launch 400k worth of ogres on an L4 mission when I know that they'll kill maybe one cruiser and then be destroyed by the other fourteen.
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Plekto
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Posted - 2005.07.14 03:00:00 -
[5]
I also forgot to mention that. The AI for the enemies got smarter, but the drones didn't at all.
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.07.14 03:32:00 -
[6]
drone - n.
A pilotless aircraft operated by remote control.
guess it sucks to be an AFK miner now huh? ^^ nothing saying automatic or AI.
i like how it has broken up the
moÀnotÀoÀny - n. pl. moÀnotÀoÀnies
-Uniformity or lack of variation in pitch, intonation, or inflection.
-Tedious sameness or repetitiousness: the monotony of daily routine.
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.07.14 03:34:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Jennai
it makes them useless as a main weapon system, thus making the dominix no longer viable for NPCing. I'm not going to launch 400k worth of ogres on an L4 mission when I know that they'll kill maybe one cruiser and then be destroyed by the other fourteen.
I usually make sure the NPC target me first, then throw out the drones.
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Tar' Kahn
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Posted - 2005.07.14 03:48:00 -
[8]
me too..
heheh James Bond novels 4tw...gonna build yourself an orbiting death ray, hugo?
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Jennai
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Posted - 2005.07.14 03:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: HUGO DRAX
Originally by: Jennai
it makes them useless as a main weapon system, thus making the dominix no longer viable for NPCing. I'm not going to launch 400k worth of ogres on an L4 mission when I know that they'll kill maybe one cruiser and then be destroyed by the other fourteen.
I usually make sure the NPC target me first, then throw out the drones.
I tried that. warp in, wait for them to all lock me, ab away while shooting them with rails, launch drones, they get bored of chasing me and switch target to my drones. then after the drones are dead they just sit there and do nothing unless I activate a module on them, which means I can go 60km out and pull them one at a time until the whole wave is dead.
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Admiral Pieg
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Posted - 2005.07.14 04:09:00 -
[10]
i started using drones today, 7 ogres in my case, i and havent experienced any problems so far. i probably will though 
______________________
Pod from above. |
Kerosene
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:40:00 -
[11]
Return. And. Scoop. Automatically.
oh, and stop hugging each other. That's all the drones need.
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Embattle
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Posted - 2005.07.14 05:42:00 -
[12]
At times some of my drones just seem to slow right down when I recall them.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.07.14 06:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Zehnder
Edited by: Zehnder on 14/07/2005 01:54:07
Yeah, well, wouldn't you?
OMG, the enemy AI isn't as stupid anymore! The tunnel vision is gone, they took the blinders off! What are we ever going to do?!
That's the second dumbest thing I've ever heard... I have never heard of a single player who during a PvP Battle swiched targets in order to kill his enemies drones...
Plus it's simply unfair when NPC destroy drones just like that. Heavy drones cost somewhere between 50-100k and you simply can't replace 10 of them after every fight without completly ruining your income.
Also if you're in a droneship that does most of its damage with drones you simply can't win a fight at all if all the drones are dead because of instalocking NPC that kill them in a few seconds.
Hey, let's make it so that turrets and launchers can be shot off your ship too, that would only make sense - afterall they do stick out the side don't they? I mean the NPCs must be completly stupid if they don't shoot your guns before they shoot anything else, don't you think, and if they can hit drones they shouldn't have a problem hitting a giant guntower...
The again, it is totally stupid if your way to kill the enemy is destroyed a few seconds after the fight starts, which is however exactly what's happening to droners right now.
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jetblack
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Posted - 2005.07.14 06:23:00 -
[14]
create multiple groups of single light drones.. assign these groups 1 per target... have another drone group of heavies do the attacking... net result... the light drones go too fast orbitting to take damage while ur large heavy drone group does the killing....
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2005.07.14 07:05:00 -
[15]
Have to agree that..
.. drones stuck on each other should be fixed
.. drones moving 1/10th of their speed should be fixed
.. drones not attacking automatically should be enabled (they do, after you first command them to attack)
.. drones need return & scoop command
.. drones need larger, anti smartbomb orbit radiuses
but I think it's cool that NPC shoot at them. They have done that for ages, IIRC.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
JarmenKell
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Posted - 2005.07.14 07:10:00 -
[16]
all the time when i send my drones to fight and tell them to get back,
only 12 of them come back fast enogh,
the other 2 drones of the same time, always come really slowlly.
i do use 14 drones cause of bs lvl 5 and not interface 5. but if there is a limit to the drone control CP or something like, let me know, i petitioned it 3 times now and no answer.
and thats not the only thing wrong with drons.\
Quote:
CCP you difinetly should fix the drones once and for all, concentrate on the combat drones at least.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.14 07:23:00 -
[17]
I have to agree to some extent drones are borked, they have become pretty worthless and deal little dmg at all.
Even using the right size drones for the target they just don't hit well at all same as all other weapons.
Overall the games balance is the worst I've seen it since beta.
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Skuld OdinsDottir
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Posted - 2005.07.14 08:41:00 -
[18]
i'm using vexor to npc (soon an ishtar)
some bugs like hugging,cant scoop up.
i have learned a few tricks to remedy that:
hugging: send one of the drones a command like attack , the other return command, works fine
scoop: i just stop the vexor
as for the new NPC AI, i havent lost any drones yet on missions (aside from the emergency warp out :) ). if you stay under their aggro range after they start shooting you , the drones should be fine, once they start losing shields, recall and rescoop + launch to lose the aggro.
Liquid dreams filled her mind as she found herself sinking into an eternal ocean of blood. An ocean she had created over the severed flesh of her assigned targets. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.07.14 09:42:00 -
[19]
I'm not really so bothered about having drones that attack automatically. What ticks ME off is having drones that don't do what I tell them.
"Attack this frigate orbiting me at 1,500 metres."
"Actually no, I think I'll wander off and attack the other group of NPCs 25km away, so that group will wipe out all your drones and then you'll have 27 ships attacking you at once."
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Uncle George
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
I'm not really so bothered about having drones that attack automatically. What ticks ME off is having drones that don't do what I tell them.
"Attack this frigate orbiting me at 1,500 metres."
"Actually no, I think I'll wander off and attack the other group of NPCs 25km away, so that group will wipe out all your drones and then you'll have 27 ships attacking you at once."
I always execute the command two or three times - it seems to "get lost" the first time - quite often at least. So, it's more like "attack, attack, attack!". Works for me 
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Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:43:00 -
[21]
allot of times i cant scoop them back, i have to lock something, send them to attack, retrieve them and then scoop them~...
rinse and repeat
plz fix !
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McBane
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Posted - 2005.07.14 10:56:00 -
[22]
Most of these problems were here before the patch, the patch just made npcs attack drones in missions as a priority.
The drone control system is so buggy and crap I just never bother with drones unless its a last resort or will give me the edge in PVP battle. I launch assuming i wont get them back - mainly as i cant be assed to fart around for ages trying scoop them back up!
Just fill up with cheap 50m3 drones and use them as decoy flares, while the rats are killing those they aint killing you.
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Fitz Chivalry
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Posted - 2005.07.14 11:24:00 -
[23]
NPCs really do have a hard on for drones - have you ever tried launching them in a complex? The entire spawn goes nuts and instantly starts blasting the crap out of your drones, even if you had been shootig the npcs and only drawing the attention of a few npc rats.
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Bigiboi
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Posted - 2005.07.14 16:15:00 -
[24]
Well i'm a big Dominix user, for I find it the most balanced ship out there.
NPC huntin with drones from a Domi is very easy.
This is my setup and i can tank 2 npc BS with ease and kill them with out warping out.
Hi slot: 2/3 heavy nos , 3 large smartbombs.
Mid slot: 5 cap rechargers t2 or t1 if u can't afford them.
Low slot: 2 therm hardenrs, 2 kinetic hardners, 1 cap relay, 1 large armor repair t2, 1 medium armor repair t2.
(note: you should check out first what kind of damage the NPC do first before putting up the HARDNERS)
First rule always make the ships target you first.
When all are red loose your drone and let them kill the BS spawn.
Use your smartbombs to kill off any NPC frigates or cruisers, when using ur smartbombs make sure ur drones are not in their range  .
Even after the patch this setup still allows me to kill Elders spawns with ease, though it does take longer, well not that long because I have all my Drone skills maxed 
My people, Lend me your ears. |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.07.14 16:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Noriath
Edited by: Noriath on 14/07/2005 06:33:55
Originally by: Zehnder
Edited by: Zehnder on 14/07/2005 01:54:07
Yeah, well, wouldn't you?
OMG, the enemy AI isn't as stupid anymore! The tunnel vision is gone, they took the blinders off! What are we ever going to do?!
That's the second dumbest thing I've ever heard... I have never heard of a single player who during a PvP Battle swiched targets in order to kill his enemies drones...
Plus it's simply unfair when NPC destroy drones just like that. Heavy drones cost somewhere between 50-100k and you simply can't replace 10 of them after every fight without completly ruining your income.
Also if you're in a droneship that does most of its damage with drones you simply can't win a fight at all if all the drones are dead because of instalocking NPC that kill them in a few seconds.
Hey, let's make it so that turrets and launchers can be shot off your ship too, that would only make sense - afterall they do stick out the side don't they? I mean the NPCs must be completly stupid if they don't shoot your guns before they shoot anything else, don't you think, and if they can hit drones they shouldn't have a problem hitting a giant guntower...
The again, it is totally stupid if your way to kill the enemy is destroyed a few seconds after the fight starts, which is however exactly what's happening to droners right now.
And before anyone says that being shot down is the disadvantage of drones, I'd really like that person to point out what the hell the advantage of drones is then.
It takes several seconds before they start atacking their target. Damage is not all that great, you constantly have to micro-manage them because they are totally stupid, scooping them is a total pain in the butt if you're moving. Now they get destroyed by NPC, and only dedicated droneships can carry 2 full sets, which is useless however, since any enemy that can destroy one will also easily destroy the second, oh also there is that funny thing with a single smartbomb rendering any ship that has it fit 100% immune to drone atack. I mean that's cool, too, now all we need is one that makes you immune to guns and one that makes you immune to missiles and it's fair again.
I just don't really see what would justify another extreme weakness to drones, given the fact that the only strength they have left is the fact that they can still atack pretty much every target. Which might lead to some people losing their invincible interceptors and being very upset.
I agree CCP please do soemthing you nerfed the dominix and ishtar out of npc ing.
I dont think its fair.
If npc stay on relocking targets drones should be changed to make them much more effective.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.07.14 16:53:00 -
[26]
As i see it CCP hates gallente.
There must be a ccp department wich aims sollely at nerfing gallente.
Constant mwd nerfs from first one ages ago to the recent ones.I think it was needed but overalll it hit most blaster users.Atm approaching even 20 km with mwd is sually suicide with the sig increase.
Then no mwd in complexes , hey to bad balsters need them for fight.
Then nerfing the uberness of drones.( tracking changes)
Now we get another slap as gellente are primery drone users and now you cant kill efficently npc in 0.0 with drone carriers.
All those changes might ahve been needed but it struck alwuys most at gallente and we never got anything in exchange.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.07.14 17:04:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 14/07/2005 17:08:07
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 14/07/2005 17:05:11
Originally by: Earthan
Constant mwd nerfs from first one ages ago to the recent ones.I think it was needed but overalll it hit most blaster users.Atm approaching even 20 km with mwd is sually suicide with the sig increase.
Don't worry, are BS will rock again with blasters. But just like all the other classes. It won't happened till you can surivive via natural high resists like the enyo and deimos.
As for always hit drones had to go. It was impossiable to do anything in a frig.
Yeah, though it sucks trying to use drones on rats now. Everyone just goes insane and targets them with extream effectivness that no player could hope to obtain. It wouldn't bother me so much if I could cary a lot more spare drones and the costs was cut down more. Then I wouldn't care if they where throw aways. Besides, Do you know how much it sucks to use your drones and then loose them with a drone carrier. It is just crap, maybe CCP needs to put in module damage too instead of leaving drone carrier stranded in the field after loosing their drones.
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Watson
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Posted - 2005.07.14 17:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Steven Dynahir
Have to agree that..
.. drones stuck on each other should be fixed
.. drones moving 1/10th of their speed should be fixed
.. drones not attacking automatically should be enabled (they do, after you first command them to attack)
.. drones need return & scoop command
.. drones need larger, anti smartbomb orbit radiuses
but I think it's cool that NPC shoot at them. They have done that for ages, IIRC.
I agree with all of those... I like that they attack other targets after being ordered to attack the first time, but I wish their priorities were better. It would be great if they'd first go after enemies that you have targeted (and are shooting at you), next enemies that you have targeted, then untargeted enemies that are attacking you, etc.
It's incredibly annoying to be in a deadspace mission and 1/2 the drones go after structures while I'm still being shot at. It's also annoying when they just go off and attack groups that aren't aggro yet and end up angering all the NPCs in a whole deadspace pocket when I could go after 5-10 at a time.
They're also a big pain to control because of the right-click menu to control them. For those of us who don't have the latest and greatest high end video cards... the lag makes this a big pain in deadspace that has big clouds and lots of structures in place. I'd love to see some kind of control bar similar to the high/mid/low slot activation buttons we have now that maybe could be shown when drones are in space so it's easy to issue commands to all of them for the basic stuff like "attack", "return and orbit", "scoop to drone bay", etc.
/me wonders if anything will be improved in drone AI before Carriers come out... |
Tekyong Carlunaire
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Posted - 2005.07.14 17:44:00 -
[29]
I've gotten used to most of the micromanagement required to operate a fleet of drones. I think some of the requests here are a bit too ambitious seeing as how primitive the drone control interface has been (since I started playing, anyway).
However, I'd like to see the obvious bugs fixed: two drones sticking together and flying at brutally slow speeds, and drones not responding to commands, which forces every drone-action to be performed 2-3 times to ensure it happens.
There are so many possibilities for adding extra drone control. I've read some interesting ideas here, but fulfilling them might result in a pretty cluttered interface. As far as enhancements go, something as simple as a new right-click command called Scoop Drones Within Range would help a whole lot. Nothing worse than a single stray drone preventing you from scooping the rest of them that are in range, and getting out of a bad situation.
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