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ElderProphet
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Posted - 2005.07.14 16:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: ElderProphet on 14/07/2005 16:56:40
I am a R&D & mision runner player or used to be. I have put all my efforts into training caldari. Now since the nerf and patch that is gone. I find that two or three frigates can beat a raven BS. I do a story line mission and with in 30 seconds and before I even have a lock on one ship, my shields are gone and half my armor. No chance at all to do missions now. The NPC are WAY over powered and the missle nerf has made the Raven a useless ship. I have trained all the avanced missile skills to level 2. I think there is no point going any further.
I guess for me now it's log on, do a few R&D missions, then log off as everythng else in the game is out of reach with the exception of mining.
Even the courier missions send through gank points with which you have no defense in a hauler and even if you take friends(gang) you still can't do anything cause if the gankers don't fire on them then they can't protect you. It's a win win for gankers and death to the mission runner. There is no way to get rid of gankers without losing sec status and access to empire.
All I want to do is a few missions and have a little time relaxing fun. What ship should I train for over the next couple of months so I can do missions again? BTW, I only do lvl 3 or less missions. Level 4 is way out of my league.
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Khargos
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Posted - 2005.07.14 16:57:00 -
[2]
get an apoc, or mine.
sadly by the looks of things this is the way things are going to be now. the pvp whinage spilled over the brim and gave us this nerf.
also dont waste your time on R&d missions...
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2005.07.14 17:07:00 -
[3]
Level 2 Missions I have been running for fun in Stabber... they are still easy enough...
Haven't tried a level 3 since patch...but hear they are bit harder for some...
Train up another Cruiser (Stabber/Thorax/Rupture)...
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.14 17:09:00 -
[4]
Please post your ships setup.
"I do a story line mission and with in 30 seconds and before I even have a lock on one ship, my shields are gone and half my armor. "
I sort of sympathise but I find what you are saying hard to believe.
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Nahualli
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Posted - 2005.07.14 17:33:00 -
[5]
Elder,
I also find it hard to believe that you are having problems with level 3 missions in a Raven. I myself am a Industry/Research character and am quite capable of handling L3 combat missions with little to no problem. My average missile skills are at 2's or 3's and I have all of them exception of spec skills.
For the Raven, I would suggest this setup.
High
2 H NOS, 6 Cruise Missile Launchers
Med
XL Emergency Overload Shield Booster, 3 various hardners(I suggest EM, Therm, Kin), 2 Target painters.
Low
RCU-Coprocessors or PDU's as needed if you are low on Grid or CPU, BCU's for the rest
And as many Medium Drones as you can use. I reccomend Drones 5/Interfacing 3 minimum at the least skillwise.
You are going to have to feel the pin of getting a few skills up if you dont have them already to use painters and NOS but if you do...... Problems should go away.
Nahualli
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ElderProphet
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Posted - 2005.07.14 18:58:00 -
[6]
You find it hard to belive?
I still have the mission open, your welcome to come along with me. It's in Veisto, I tried it 5 times, everytime, it's the same thing, shields gone, then into armor. Not shots fired yet but now that is after my first valley, they are waiting for me now and target me right away.
Let me know if you would like to experiance it first hand.
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Lady Hazel
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Posted - 2005.07.14 19:08:00 -
[7]
I'm sure having a buddy would help... But I'm not sure how good the rewards would be if you guys split it. I have never dont lev 3 missions so I wouldnt know, I am getting closer though  Just a thought.
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Dominik
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Posted - 2005.07.14 19:13:00 -
[8]
Lvl 3 post-patch has not changed at ALL for me. Well..that's not true. Some new skills finished training which made them easier than pre-patch...but that's not patch-related at all. I've never been lvl4-capable, but lvl 3s have always nearly put me to sleep with how mindlessly easy they've been. I guess my tempest is a bit overkill for them, but was just under the breaking point for lvl 4's... Coulda used a lvl 3.5 or something. :) No kidding...I actually lost the missions a couple times because I docked and fell asleep and forgot to tell the agent I was done *sigh*.
I shield-tank, and never have had a problem with lvl 3 mission npcs giving me any problems whatsoever, even post-patch. I'm fairly convinced that they didn't touch anything but level 4s, as my bounties are actually the same as before as well. People talking about lvl 3s being harder as well must be referring to another patch-change that happened to indirectly make things harder by altering stats on their setup...either that or some might be imagining things.
As it stands, I've stopped doing missions because I finally decided to stop being lazy and take my claw into complexes instead. Nothing says exciting like orbiting 30+ ships in a tight bundle with 1.2km/s transversal and my guns almost never missing. ^_^
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:27:00 -
[9]
what lvl3 story missions is it, and i doubt it is that hard - i done a fair few and they are all really easy - if it is a DS, are u aggroing every1 at once- and if it is an encounter, are u warping in at 15km, when u would really better off at 100km
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.15 00:35:00 -
[10]
"I find that two or three frigates can beat a raven BS. I do a story line mission and with in 30 seconds and before I even have a lock on one ship, my shields are gone and half my armor."
Please, post the configuration of your ship if possible, especially the middle/low slots? And what are names of these NPCs that shoot you so hard?
It's just very hard to believe you'd be taking so much damage with any sort of tanked setup... (i.e. with shield hardeners/shield booster/booster amplifier... the regular stuff)
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Kadarin
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Posted - 2005.07.15 00:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kadarin on 15/07/2005 00:45:15
I am still testing and training missile skills, but so far I'm doing ok with two different mission ships, used for different types of missions:
Raven: Used in situations where I am fighting mostly BS and some frigs
6x Limos siege, 2x tech2 125mm rails, shield tank, 2x BCS, 3x PDU, lots of small drones
Megathron: Used where I am fighting rogue drones or lots of cruisers
7x tech 2 250mm rails, 1x large SB, 1 tech 2 target painter, 2x cap recharger 2's, 1x heavy cap injector with 800 charges, 2x large accom, 3x hardeners, 1x cap relay, 1x dmg mod, 9x heavy drones
The Megathron can solo the Rogue Drone Harassment mission, and the Raven can solo the Guristas Spies mission. What I've found is that missions are more difficult, in that I have to learn specific strategies to approach each mission. Once I have done this, then mission running will once again be reduced to a science.
The reduced bounties/rewards coupled with the (temporary) increase in difficulty means that I will have to do some mining to supplement my income, I think.
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Dracolich
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Posted - 2005.07.15 00:47:00 -
[12]
Use a HAC or a AF! Or fit a mix of launchers and use med drones. Just my two isk. Elder prophet, if u cant beat 2-3 frigates, then omg. Have u tried using a shield booster? I cant believe what u are saying. I dont even think that being put to half shields within 30 secs with no fitting at all, is possible. About the ganks, have u tried bms and wcs? The only thing i have to say about the patch is, why did they change the routes, that is just laughable, and totally needless. Cant think of a reason other than to f**k ppl over, so they have to do bms again.
I sleep through lvl 3 with my zealot. Going back to lvl 4 asap.
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Dracolich
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Posted - 2005.07.15 00:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dracolich on 15/07/2005 00:55:28
Edited by: Dracolich on 15/07/2005 00:55:02
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.15 03:01:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: ElderProphet
You find it hard to belive?
I still have the mission open, your welcome to come along with me. It's in Veisto, I tried it 5 times, everytime, it's the same thing, shields gone, then into armor. Not shots fired yet but now that is after my first valley, they are waiting for me now and target me right away.
Let me know if you would like to experiance it first hand.
It's 18 jumps so I cant be arsed. Please post your setup as requested.
Also, grab a screenshot, I'm curious to know what can blast a raven into armour before you can lock it.
You either have a poor setup or the mission is bugged.
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Chucky
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Posted - 2005.07.16 11:32:00 -
[15]
I helped a Raven pilot do the lvl 4 Angel Extravaganza, it took us 6+ hours and I thought we did pretty good But few people have that kind of time and the rewards certainly weren't worth it
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Inconceivable
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Posted - 2005.07.16 14:14:00 -
[16]
I believe what ElderProphet is saying. A Raven is a *horrible* mission runner against *anything* but BS targets - and then it shines. With missles hitting structures for 1/3 damage now (!?!) it also a poor choice for pounding stations.
Small inty's like Vipers or Webbers are the worst to kill, being nearly invulnerable to missles of all types now. That leaves a raven with 2 high slots and only six heavy drones to protect itself with to vs. anythign smaller than a BS.
Even a cruiser takes 24-36 torps or cruise missles to kill now while any BS excells at being a missle magnet themselves, meaning you are taking a ton more damage while you take out non-BS targets 6 to 20 times longer.
Tank like mad - a good (C5-L or tech2) XL booster with 2 shield amps and 3 hardners is your best bet. The days of using Nos's are gone because you need to mount small guns. And consider moving from Caldari.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.16 14:26:00 -
[17]
"Small inty's like Vipers or Webbers are the worst to kill, being nearly invulnerable to missles of all types now. That leaves a raven with 2 high slots and only six heavy drones to protect itself with to vs. anythign smaller than a BS.
Even a cruiser takes 24-36 torps or cruise missles to kill now while any BS excells at being a missle magnet themselves, meaning you are taking a ton more damage while you take out non-BS targets 6 to 20 times longer."
Hmm i find no real problem with taking out small stuff, to be honest. At 40-60km most of it pops in single salvo of heavies (which do nice damage since at that range the rats have their MWDs on trying to get to you) At 20 km or less, light missiles and medium drones tear them to shreds.
How about two setups? 4x heavy launcher, 2x assault, 2x nosferatu to keep cap up for tanking while you kill the small trash first... then switch to siege/cruises and kill the remaining big guys..?
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Inconceivable
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Posted - 2005.07.16 19:55:00 -
[18]
>>>Hmm i find no real problem with taking out small stuff, to be honest. At 40-60km most of it pops in single salvo of heavies (which do nice damage since at that range the rats have their MWDs on trying to get to you) At 20 km or less, light missiles and medium drones tear them to shreds.
You are correct - when you have the luxury of engaging at range and at still targets. Things change dramatically when you warp into a spot or another wave comes in and you are swamped by small ships at high speed. At this point, no number of salvos - from any launcher - will take out an inty.
With missle skills at 3-4, in a Caracal with 5 'Arb heavy or light launchers, *emptying* all launchers at an engaged Viper will not even bring its shields to 50%. No other weapon type in Eve is so crippled.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.16 20:29:00 -
[19]
"With missle skills at 3-4, in a Caracal with 5 'Arb heavy or light launchers, *emptying* all launchers at an engaged Viper will not even bring its shields to 50%. No other weapon type in Eve is so crippled."
Uhmm... the arch angel Viper has 7.5 km optimal, 1.5 km/sec max speed and 450 m/sec orbit speed. Perfectly in range to get webbed, at which point light missiles should be hitting it for ~half of base damage... (meaning, ~10-12 light missiles is enough to kill its 500 hp shield) ... well, unless one is silly and insist on using kinetic missiles which the Viper is well shielded against, i guess.
Am i missing somthing? Admittedly, so far i only had to shoot Mercenary Wingmans, but their stats appear virtually identical with Vipers, and they popped fast even without web...
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Kager o
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Posted - 2005.07.16 20:33:00 -
[20]
As a new miny pilot, even after the patch, with lower missile skills then gunnery, I am consistantly doing MORE damage with 4 heavy launchers then 4 named 720s, at all ranges, on all ship types.
I just have to equip a painter and webber with some drones now to help bring down the frigates and interceptors faster. And I am definately aiming at them first to get the MWD bonus damage before they start thier close orbit on me.
I'm not getting how "crippled" they are against guns, because they still hit more often for more damage then my low skilled 720's, or low damage autocannons.
Friend or Foe.....theres still a toll |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.07.16 20:33:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 16/07/2005 20:35:08
Hahaha.
Large guns will not even TOUCH the 30k rats when they close. Heck, my Vaga struggles to kill 2 with medium projectiles before they can close to web range.
30k rats are NASTY. Stop thinking you're some sort of unique snowflake.
j0, the Vipers have a TINY sig radius.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.16 20:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: j0sephine on 16/07/2005 20:44:36
"j0, the Vipers have a TINY sig radius."
Aye, i checked ^^
If Item Database is right, the radius is 22.5 m... light missiles have 50m base explosion radius, 40m with Guided Missile Precision 4 ... so 22.5/40 = ~half of base damage, and either when in orbit or webbed, the Viper should be moving at below 400-500 m/sec, slow enough to not trigger speed damage reduction.
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Okoru
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Posted - 2005.07.17 01:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: ElderProphet
You find it hard to belive?
I still have the mission open, your welcome to come along with me. It's in Veisto, I tried it 5 times, everytime, it's the same thing, shields gone, then into armor. Not shots fired yet but now that is after my first valley, they are waiting for me now and target me right away.
Let me know if you would like to experiance it first hand.
2-3 frigs doing that much? Maybe they do EM dmg? Do you even have hardeners? How in the world do you tank in your ship? I fly a raven and I've never had 2-3 frigates get my shields under 95% before my drones ripped them to shreds. Like people have asked for earlier: Post your goddamn setup!  
They should make a twisted bear emote... that'd be cool
---
What I say has nothing to reflect on what my corp decides, because... I'm stupid! :D
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Avrunath
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Posted - 2005.07.17 02:16:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Avrunath on 17/07/2005 02:17:20
Im doin Lvl3s in a Dom and they are easy.
My Drones are eating them alive(able to use 10 of them with Dom).
For Hislots i use 4 200mm Scouts and 2 200mm Prototypes Railguns, will get them all up to Prototypes.
Medslots: 100MN AB and Caprechargers named.
Loslots: Large rep, Med Accomodation, Tank and rest Cap Power Relays.
Im running every Mission with no problems, Angel Extravaganzas and Black Market Hub.
And im still noobie with my skills as itrained a lot of Industry and Learning skills.
Good Luck getting back to the fun again.
Please don't post images, just the link instead - Cortes
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.17 08:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: "ElderProphet"
I do a story line mission and with in 30 seconds and before I even have a lock on one ship, my shields are gone and half my armor.
this has nothing to do with missiles - this looks more like ur tryna hull tank ur raven 
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Mannakin
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Posted - 2005.07.17 16:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: HippoKingthis has nothing to do with missiles - this looks more like ur tryna hull tank ur raven [:roll:
LOL
try 6 heavy missle launchers and 2x 150mm T2 guns, clear out the frigs and intys, fly medium drones NOT heavys and web the suckers if they get close.
Use your AB to fly away from the bigger damage dealing rats whilst you kill the annoying little ones.
Its a piece of **** if you have half a clue.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.17 17:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Okoru
2-3 frigs doing that much? Maybe they do EM dmg? Do you even have hardeners? How in the world do you tank in your ship? I fly a raven and I've never had 2-3 frigates get my shields under 95% before my drones ripped them to shreds. Like people have asked for earlier: Post your goddamn setup!
They should make a twisted bear emote... that'd be cool
You`ll be able to lock 2-3 frigs even if you dont have EM hardener and thy do EM damage.
If they will manage to go past the shield they`ll face 60% resist on armor.
It is either very very strange setup ( like couple of proto cloaks ) or buggesd mission.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.07.18 08:34:00 -
[28]
I went back out to 0.0 space.
I guess that was the point of all this though.
www.hadean.org
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Dracolich
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Posted - 2005.07.19 07:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Inconceivable
The days of using Nos's are gone because you need to mount small guns.
Have you ever considered using drones?
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