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Brainstorming: What it takes to get you to move to 0.0 ?

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Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:10:00 - [91] Originally by: Engelious Angelion Originally by: Jacques Normand I would happily move out to 0.0 space, but as a newish player what would I be able to do there? I think Empire just has more options for everyone to enjoy, whereas 0.0 seems to be for the older players who can afford to keep losing battleships. he he you dont need a bs for 0.0.... A frig is fine or a cruiser :) and theres lots to do! You arent going to take AB rats in a frig or cruiser and doing missions for seprentis and the like will get youlbanned from empire quite quickly. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:11:00 - [92] Originally by: Derisor Not until the alliances learn to holdtheir fire and Im not holding my breath on this on. Imagine if gallente navy blew you to hell every time you jumped into their system. That is what 0.0 will be like with infratructure. What possible reason would the alliances have not to shoot intruders. There are no means for alliances to police their borders othger tan just shooting people on sight. What you are asking for is for alliances to let in leechers who can mine to their hearts content and that the alliances should do it because of some moral code that you made up. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:12:00 - [93] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor Not until the alliances learn to holdtheir fire and Im not holding my breath on this on. Why would they hold their fire if everyone that comes to their space is either a leech or someone out to kill them? Coz, that's where we are now Well then that invalidatey your prior post. People WONT come even with the infrastructure. Many pirates seem to want to have more poeple in 0.0 just ot have more to shoot at. There are players behind that ship. Real people that want to have fun as well and wont consider dieing repeatedly to the likes of Avon to be fun. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:14:00 - [94] Originally by: Derisor Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor Not until the alliances learn to holdtheir fire and Im not holding my breath on this on. Why would they hold their fire if everyone that comes to their space is either a leech or someone out to kill them? Coz, that's where we are now Well then that invalidatey your prior post. People WONT come even with the infrastructure. Many pirates seem to want to have more poeple in 0.0 just ot have more to shoot at. There are players behind that ship. Real people that want to have fun as well and wont consider dieing repeatedly to the likes of Avon to be fun. Lol what is this some kinda guilt trip. People who want to have fun with no risk have empire. People who want a challenge have 0.0. What part of this equation don't you get? Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!! In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable) "This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:14:00 - [95] Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: Derisor Not until the alliances learn to holdtheir fire and Im not holding my breath on this on. Imagine if gallente navy blew you to hell every time you jumped into their system. That is what 0.0 will be like with infratructure. What possible reason would the alliances have not to shoot intruders. There are no means for alliances to police their borders othger tan just shooting people on sight. What you are asking for is for alliances to let in leechers who can mine to their hearts content and that the alliances should do it because of some moral code that you made up. Nope.. they should do it because its good economics. Even the most powerful economic nation on the planet today, the usa, would fall to its knees without its "leachers". Import and export, produce, refine, build. These are all part of the equation. Somethow the alliances have lost that part and all that remains is "blow crap up". --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:14:00 - [96] Originally by: Derisor Well then that invalidatey your prior post. People WONT come even with the infrastructure. Many pirates seem to want to have more poeple in 0.0 just ot have more to shoot at. With proper infrastructure, the people that would otherwise leech will have something to contribute Originally by: Derisor There are players behind that ship. Real people that want to have fun as well and wont consider dieing repeatedly to the likes of Avon to be fun. That's not allainces or CCP's problem. They do want people in 0.0, but only those willing to make an effort in carving their own niche. [Come to Daddy]
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:15:00 - [97] Originally by: Derisor Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor Not until the alliances learn to holdtheir fire and Im not holding my breath on this on. Why would they hold their fire if everyone that comes to their space is either a leech or someone out to kill them? Coz, that's where we are now Well then that invalidatey your prior post. People WONT come even with the infrastructure. Many pirates seem to want to have more poeple in 0.0 just ot have more to shoot at. There are players behind that ship. Real people that want to have fun as well and wont consider dieing repeatedly to the likes of Avon to be fun. Dying to me is fun, you should try it. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:17:00 - [98] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor Well then that invalidatey your prior post. People WONT come even with the infrastructure. Many pirates seem to want to have more poeple in 0.0 just ot have more to shoot at. With proper infrastructure, the people that would otherwise leech will have something to contribute The industrialists could contribute now. RIGHT THIS INSTANT. People in 0.0 wont let them. Its as simple as that. You can build as many seats in your stadium as you want but if you dont let people come in, play football, hold concerts, sell hot dogs and sell t-shirts all you have is a million ton concrete paperweight. Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor There are players behind that ship. Real people that want to have fun as well and wont consider dieing repeatedly to the likes of Avon to be fun. That's not allainces or CCP's problem. They do want people in 0.0, but only those willing to make an effort in carving their own niche. My argument is that CCP wants the casual gamers in 0.0 and is missing some fundamental things blocking it. Its just far too easy to random gank and "claim" space. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:18:00 - [99] Originally by: Derisor Nope.. they should do it because its good economics. Even the most powerful economic nation on the planet today, the usa, would fall to its knees without its "leachers". Import and export, produce, refine, build. These are all part of the equation. Somethow the alliances have lost that part and all that remains is "blow crap up". No, the alliances discovered that they don't need that and that they get by fine without it. [Come to Daddy]
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:18:00 - [100] Edited by: Kerby Lane on 18/07/2005 12:19:11 It is impossible to live in 0.0 so I will never go there as ebil pvp ers kill me anyway. If I will then I use clonejump and will sit on station smacktalking in local. I think it is impossible to anyone with less than 30mils SP to live in 0.0 out of station so dont even try. I havent seen any POS in 0.0 and think hey are impossible to deploy at all and they are not exist now. 0.0 corps dont accept any new people at all and thy are elitary organisation with no chance of joining. Devs, nerf 0.0, pvp and Derisor please
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:22:00 - [101] /me *****slaps Derisor
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:28:00 - [102] Originally by: Del Narveux Casual playing has everything to do with it. Why ? Pray tell me what stops a casual player from being casual in a casually strong 0.0 based well organised corporation ? Sure, individually there's little to be doen for you in 0.0. But then again, that goes for non-casual players as well. So what makes 0.0 and in particular the last patch so hostile to casual players ? _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:32:00 - [103] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor Nope.. they should do it because its good economics. Even the most powerful economic nation on the planet today, the usa, would fall to its knees without its "leachers". Import and export, produce, refine, build. These are all part of the equation. Somethow the alliances have lost that part and all that remains is "blow crap up". No, the alliances discovered that they don't need that and that they get by fine without it. Then we are back into the paradox of CCP saying they want more people in 0.0 but alliances saying "stay out and we dont give a damn" and so on. You cant have it both ways. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:33:00 - [104] I have only ever had a maximum of about 150m ISK in assets in total, and I've been into 0.0 on a number of occasions now. One of my old corpmates (in a small neutral empire corp) even managed a tour of Pure Blind, Deklein, Branch, Venal, and Tribute withuot being harassed. The only reason people do not go into 0.0 is because they don't want to loose the things they have spent months investing in. If you go into 0.0: ) don't take things you cannot afford to loose. ) use the map, use alts, use intel. *) don't smacktalk when you loose your ship. That is all. ex: P-TMC
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:35:00 - [105] Originally by: Derisor Then we are back into the paradox of CCP saying they want more people in 0.0 but alliances saying "stay out and we dont give a damn" and so on. You cant have it both ways. That's where Evol comes in and kicks the alliances out [Come to Daddy]
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:40:00 - [106] "Pray tell me what stops a casual player from being casual in a casually strong 0.0 based well organised corporation ?" "Casually strong 0.0 based well organised corporation" being the oxymoron in first place, i'd guess... -.o
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:41:00 - [107] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor Then we are back into the paradox of CCP saying they want more people in 0.0 but alliances saying "stay out and we dont give a damn" and so on. You cant have it both ways. That's where Evol comes in and kicks the alliances out And then shoots everyone and turns the place into something resembling Beruit during the civil war. How exactly doe that help our paradox? --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:46:00 - [108] How to get in 0.0. Join corp or ninja mine/npc/pirate. Corp is either strong enough to take part of 0.0 (mega corp), negotiates with alliances or joins alliance. Alliance either negotiates for access (ISS also Huzzah has done this for deeper 0.0) or takes part of 0.0. What you find is that alliances are not part of CONCOORD and so do not behave like the Empires in that they allow free passage without negotiation first. Think of 0.0 as say countries in Africa(0.0) vs the countries in the EU(Empire). Oh and alliances and corps need an idustrial base it's not all PVP, just be willing to risk a firgate or two or if the alliance is big enough to contribute wealth in terms of ISK to the alliance or material in the form of ammo etc to those that fight on your behalf, it's a bit like you being taxed by the state for having an army. WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa. WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:47:00 - [109] Originally by: Derisor And then shoots everyone and turns the place into something resembling Beruit during the civil war. How exactly doe that help our paradox? From the ashes, a new empire arises! MolleVille \o/ [Come to Daddy]
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:48:00 - [110] Edited by: Derisor on 18/07/2005 12:48:43 Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor And then shoots everyone and turns the place into something resembling Beruit during the civil war. How exactly doe that help our paradox? From the ashes, a new empire arises! MolleVille \o/ What new empire? You will just come blow it up again. You will find the miners and traders using the map and come blow the to hell. Empires in eve are an illusion. So is control of space. Eve is Empire space and Gankdom piracy. Little more. It could be so much more. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:55:00 - [111] Originally by: Derisor Eve is Empire space and Gankdom piracy. Little more. It could be so much more. Which game are you playing again? Seems different to the one I am. If you think it could be so much more then make it happen, find those whole feel the same as you do and get together, forge 0.0 to your whim. Of course if you can't be bothered then just stay on the forums and whine, guess which one will have the most effect. WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa. WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.07.18 12:59:00 - [112] Originally by: Derisor What new empire? You will just come blow it up again. You will find the miners and traders using the map and come blow the to hell. Empires in eve are an illusion. So is control of space. Eve is Empire space and Gankdom piracy. Little more. It could be so much more. Sims ftw ?
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:00:00 - [113] Originally by: Derisor What new empire? You will just come blow it up again. You will find the miners and traders using the map and come blow the to hell. Empires in eve are an illusion. So is control of space. Eve is Empire space and Gankdom piracy. Little more. It could be so much more. FIX would like to have a word with you [Come to Daddy]
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:01:00 - [114] Just because you dont like how cold the pool is doesnt mean you want to jump into a pot of boiling hot water. There are things that can be done to change eve from what it is into what it could be. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:07:00 - [115] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: Derisor What new empire? You will just come blow it up again. You will find the miners and traders using the map and come blow the to hell. Empires in eve are an illusion. So is control of space. Eve is Empire space and Gankdom piracy. Little more. It could be so much more. FIX would like to have a word with you Who ? lol ... actually you would probably be astonished if you knew my regular haunts in the game. =) --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:10:00 - [116] Originally by: Derisor Who ? lol ... actually you would probably be astonished if you knew my regular haunts in the game. =) They're the people who stood up to BoB, fought for their space and got to keep it in the end Nothing astonishes me these days :\| [Come to Daddy]
Ronin Woman	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:20:00 - [117] [Edited all but last paragraph] My argument is that CCP wants the casual gamers in 0.0 and is missing some fundamental things blocking it. Its just far too easy to random gank and "claim" space. I can relate to this statement. RL job requires me to be a "casual" Eve citizen atm. On the two ocassions I went exploring 0.0 in a frigate, gate ganked once without even having a chance to defend or run and sniper killed by a BS in a roid field the second time. Granted that maybe I should have tried to find out who's space I was in & asked permission to look around but I didn't. I was just curious about what all the fuss is about. Can't recommend 0.0 as a tourist attraction and as to what benifit 0.0 space might be, can't say as I didn't live long enough to see anything of interest.
Telara Dalgrax	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:22:00 - [118] Here's the real reason: Very, very few people who play online games want to accept the level of risk that PvP has in EVE, which is hardcore (you lose your ship, your mods, your cargo, your implants, your clone ... that can be many millions ISK altogether). I think the combat and death penalty are great, they make the game more realistic and they give a real edge to PvP, but I think most players really do not want to risk 20-50 million ISK in PvP unless they are truly dedicated PvPers (and I think there are relatively few of those, even in a PvP-oriented game like EVE). So, tweaking with things (like more entry points, less chokepoints, fog of war etc.) would draw in a few more people, I still honestly think that with the steep death penalty in EVE, many players will still simply opt not to take their expensive ships and clones into a place where they can lose them easily. It's an issue of mentality: either you have the "heck, I don't care if I lose it, it's the fun of the battle" mentality, or you have the "Heck no! I'm not risking 50m ISK for 30 seconds of adrenaline-laced PvP" mentality. I think there are more people in the latter group, and hence relatively few people in 0.0.
John Blackthorn	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:43:00 - [119] t1 turrets and missles that work maybe?
Derisor	Posted - 2005.07.18 13:51:00 - [120] Originally by: Telara Dalgrax Here's the real reason: Very, very few people who play online games want to accept the level of risk that PvP has in EVE, which is hardcore (you lose your ship, your mods, your cargo, your implants, your clone ... that can be many millions ISK altogether). I think the combat and death penalty are great, they make the game more realistic and they give a real edge to PvP, but I think most players really do not want to risk 20-50 million ISK in PvP unless they are truly dedicated PvPers (and I think there are relatively few of those, even in a PvP-oriented game like EVE). So, tweaking with things (like more entry points, less chokepoints, fog of war etc.) would draw in a few more people, I still honestly think that with the steep death penalty in EVE, many players will still simply opt not to take their expensive ships and clones into a place where they can lose them easily. It's an issue of mentality: either you have the "heck, I don't care if I lose it, it's the fun of the battle" mentality, or you have the "Heck no! I'm not risking 50m ISK for 30 seconds of adrenaline-laced PvP" mentality. I think there are more people in the latter group, and hence relatively few people in 0.0. Certainly changing the death penalty is not a good idea. That trivializes death. There are 2 ways to get poeple into 0.0. Trivialize death and loss or make the potential rewards significant enough to merit the risk. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.

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