Is this some kind of psychology exam question?

If you mean the problem goes away because you dock/safe up, then yes. That's EXACTLY what the OP is suggesting.

The issue is that an AFK cloaky doesn't even have to be armed - just there.

He is in fact the most effective 30 day alt in game for 0.0 without even having to ever decloak.

Where are you getting that 30 day figure from? Training plan for a fresh alt, please. I can't see how you could make a 30 day covops alt that's actually a threat in that time. Enough skills to sit in local under a regular cloak, maybe, but that's harmless. To actually stalk someone and light a cyno? You need cloaking IV, racial frigate V, covops I, CFT I (CFT V for covert cynos...)

GǪyou mean those things that you immediately see coming and therefore can escape? YeeeeahGǪ no. By that token, there is already risk in AFK cloaking by the mere fact that you're AFK and can't react to any threats that might appear.
It's not 20 questions GÇö it's trying to figure out what the problem with AFK cloaking is and why it needs to be solved.

So far, none of the issues have had anything to do with that, but rather with completely different things. The best GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ to AFK cloaking remains to fix local.

Removing local will not stop AFK cloaking.

IF that happens it will be replaced with somthing of equal use. Anything otherwise would wreck nullsec and CCP knows it.

Having free ganks each and every day is a fantasy. If somehow it happened you would have them for a few months before people leave Nullsec and EVE in droves now can we focus on the topic please?

Ya I highly doubt that will happen. I and many others have stated that nerfing local = leaving the game. So can we focus on the topic please?

If you think an AFK cloaker can effect you then you are rather daft good sir.

They absolutely have to be at keyboard to be a threat.

Which has been pointed out is a fault of the spawn mechanic, not the cloak.

stop trying to link it to a cloak nerf.

what exactly can an afk pilot do, apart from make cowards stop playing of their own volition?

Well considering that the term "AFK cloaker" has AFK in it and AFK stands for "away from keyboard" could you explain how a person who isn't even at his or her computer can do anything to you?

the AFK pilot does jack

GǪwhich still has nothing to do with AFK cloaking since the issue lies with the despawning mechanics of dungeons.

Hey guys, we get it. We understand that when you say "AFK Cloaker," you are not literally referring to someone whom is AFK. You are referring to the ability of someone to sit in local, AFK or otherwise, for prolonged periods of time while cloaked and then suddenly tackle you and bring in friends to kill you. What we keep saying to you is that there is a very simple way for you to avoid this: go to another system to do your PVE activities when you see a neutral or hostile alt in local.

Tech 2 Scanning Probes, that at best will get you to 5000 m from the cloaked ship.

well how well you can asset the danger you are in ? how much friends you gonna need ?

titan bridge 1k+ BS and support ? full cap fleet ? 3 drakes ?


per say / while afk he cant do anything

deception is in play here, you simply dont know. Only reasonable thing to do is just log off and check next day.. in case you cant ratt/mine in other system. In case you can you just move not an big deal.

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

and fyi if you want to the tools to catch them you have them
gates
stations
bubbles
session changes
logoffs
downtime
bait

oh you must be the OPs alt

let me break it down for you

why should the cloak ship be subject to a threat if the ship itself is not a threat?

he's AFK...

SAY IT WITH ME NOW!
AFK

he's no threat, he is not deriving any benefit from being there, hes not playing the game, he's not doing ANYTHING
yet because you are a gutless coward you feel he should be subject to a higher risk than he poses to you simply because he has the nerve to be in the same local as your royal highness

no, hell no
learn to play or go the **** away, I for one am sick of knee jerk nerfs and other stupidity thrown at the game lately because of crybabies like you and your main

you insult yourself when you make posts like this.

obviously you are reacting to one person or corp who has angered you so much that you now demand the means to hunt this particular person or persons down so you can extract your retribution.

sorry you are mad bro, but your personal problems in-game are not reason enough to nerf an entire class of ships

Good point but we do need to keep the insults out of it. It is obvious that AFK cloaking risk free is the issue to be fixed and finding a good solution that does not seriously affect active cloaking needs to be our focus and goal.

see, I don't have that fear
if you wan't to come afk blueball yourself to death down in syndicate I'll be more than happy to laugh at you in local

That is completely off topic. I will refer you to the forum TOS and rules. Please follow them. This topic is about discussing solutions to the issue of being able to be cloaked in a system while away from the computer or otherwise not paying attention to the client risk free.

so then not letting them in your system isn't an option?

this was the tool I was referring to

afk cloakers do not simply spawn into your system, they need to travel just like everyone else.
a quick look at the stats on evekill will tell you covops ships are not indestructible, people pop em all the time

you have the tools, thats why your demand for a fix to your personal problems is not a fix or a worthy topic of discussion.

covops have to transit around the universe just like everyone else, they have to log in and log out, they dock and undock
they enter and exit your precious system with gates

the cloaks benefit is to grant you immunity from detection, thats the whole point, without that feature its useless, and it comes at a hefty cost even on a covops ship.

if you can't control access to your system, then its not really your system is it?

And yep, you are 100% correct. Logic is NOT going to be effective. You're the case in point.

even when he's there, hes still "not there"

AFK or ATK the threat is a perceived one.

so how do you recon this works with eyes?
their role is to cloak for intel, not afk harassment.

do you think these people should be rendered ineffective because the blob on the gate he's scouting can probe/scan/pulse him down with 10 different members in a matter of seconds?

unless I'm orbiting a moon at 349km

The Apostle- Of course I know cloaked ships don't show on d-scan. Neither can cloaked ships take any offensive action. A cloaked ship is only dangerous once decloaked. Then they show up on d-scan if close or in overview if dangerously close. A true AFk cloaker won't even pass on Intel being afk. I do just fine in systems with cloaked vessels because I watch my d-scan for ships that decloak and can actually engage. Any ship that can engage has to decloak first. Also cyno'd in ships will spike local. I just don't see the problem. There's no need to avoid somebody that can't attack. They can only attack once you can see them too on d-scan or overview or local spike from covert cyno.

lol, boy you sure got a heavy axe to grind there, perhaps you should just relocate to quieter places
I can't imagine all this maniacal planning is doing your blood pressure very good

A cloaky recon can come up just over 2.5k fully cloaked and he will not show until he decloaks and lights a cyno right on your clacker. You won't need to d-scan. he's there!!

Worse, if he has a mate, you're pointed before you can even find the warp button. Less than 10 seconds later, blob is in and you're dead.

Blob scatters and waits it out to exit.

And unless you have a fleet WITH you - you can't stop it.

But that isn't the topic. The fact remains that of this occurs even if the cloaky is in bed fast asleep is the issue.

why not just grow a pair and fight people who want to fight you

come at me bro.

no you are asking for a new way to be a ganker because you apparently can't do it in the traditional ways.

hunting down afk people is not a dignified or honorable profession, and is just what i would expect from that hi-sec carebear you speak of

Please do tell, how they do this whilst AFK.No one with any idea of balance, is asking for local to be removed without a package of changes to take it's place, but as it stands local gives you intel on a plate. AFKing simply tries to subvert it's instant intel.

You say this isn't about local, but please tell me... What are they using to interact with you whilst AFK? What is it they are using, to make this a feasible method of psychological warfare? The fact you don't even need a cloak for this to work, should tell you where the issue is.

You didn't notice those of us who are saying that this isn't an issue?

Any type of cloaking detection would have a dramatically bad effect on wormhole life. The only way to rid the mythical "afk cloaker" problem without negatively affecting W-space, which requires not being detectable while cloaked, is to address the real problem, that of the cloaked individual being seen in local.

This has already been addressed, yet strangely ignored by those that would choose to break the game for their own personal benefit.

You're trying to turn null, and as a side effect wormholes, into warm, cuddly safe playgrounds and forgetting that these systems are meant to be inherently dangerous.

Belay that phaser order, fire photon torpedoes!

Wow impressive use of fancy words just to say "I don't give a ****" Linguistic skills paying those bills!

Why is this thread still here?

No. Because one side is immune to valid arguments because they want to remove cloaking but don't want to come out and say it (because they are unable to explain why such a change should happen).

They cant do anything or hurt anyone while cloaked.

You know what would be abetter fix? having the cyno anchor module be a bit larger that a el-chepo frigate cant fit it anymore. Then increase the skills required to use them so you have a better idea if cloaky alt is afking or its somone's main as they spent a bit more sp to ensure the place can goto heck soon.

What's screwing the balance up is the fact that you can already detect the presence of cloaked vessels in empire space when they're cloaked. Address THAT issue and you will find your balance grasshopper.

Hiding.

Cant stalk the foolish if I log off.

Correct, I cannot hurt you in any way while I am cloaked.

Can't play eve if I log off silly. Just because I am cloaked and cant hurt you in any way or turn on anything while my cloak is active doesn't mean I am not doing something.

That's their job.

It's balanced for the same reason that Hulks extracting Veldspar with their mining lasers is balanced.

The difference is that the cloak's job is being ruined by an overly powerful intel tool that ignores the protection the cloak is meant to provide. Cloaks are not the problem GÇö they never were. The problem is that people see them anyway and are afraid of the monsters their own minds conjure up from this piece of information.

Seeing as how the safety is not absolute, yes.

No. I'm saying that all the GÇ£solutionsGÇ¥ to GÇ£AFK cloakingGÇ¥ are complete gutshots to cloaking GÇö intentional or not, they're swinging wild and not hitting what they're (allegedly) aiming for. They also refuse to acknowledge some very simple fixes that would solve their supposed issue, often with such intensity that it is hard not to suspect that the supposed issue is not what they actually want to see solvedGǪ

When uncloaked, you run the exact same risks as everyone else. Its a none issue.

More fool you. Until 30 minutes ago I was in bed asleep. I was asleep for approximately 8 hours. Thread was still up top when I logged in.

But hey, your comments are appreciated. They are, as usual, held in the highest esteem.

Here is the "AFK cloaker" debate distilled to its most basic principle. Everything beyond it is just noise.

You mean have 10 ships warp in, dump 40 drones to uncloak and have him locked down in 10 seconds. I can see where that might be a little unnerving.

Mr Epeen

I'm not saying it's a bad idea.

I was just giving an example of how it would be used for real as opposed to a forum mind puzzle. These things need to be looked at from all sides to achieve the right balance.

I actually sympathize with CCP in this respect. There are a lot of variables that don't get thought about until it's too late and then there is a whole new set of problems.

So probe at a distance to make Mr AFK sit up and take notice but also make it hard for him to be uncloaked might be the way to go. Then again I imagine it's possible to write up a script to auto warp if something shows up on grid.

Or not. I don't really have a clue. I only write scripts for mods in Bethesda games and have never tried any for EVE so I could be completely wrong :P

Mr Epeen

You're the second person to try linking a non-HD SB kill on a bait.

It's not even the topic. We're talking about the guys who are non-active, not noobs that baitfail.

Albeit I did ask for a recon kill at a gatecamp as you were proposing everybody can do unless they're "lazy".

(I can gladly say I have a Rapier kill on a set bait but it's STILL not the issue at hand.)

AFK cloaking is a legitimate income denial tactic. Get lost.

If afk cloaking keeps The Apostle out of nullsec it should be buffed.

I have many times. Still do.

I asked if he went AFK in it. Pointed skyward with mwd is plausible, but why would ya?

If AFK system denial was the intent, you'd get the same effect in something worth 1/10 the cost.