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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
O'Ren I'Shii	Posted - 2005.07.22 10:19:00 - [1] Edited by: O''Ren I''Shii on 22/07/2005 10:23:30 This may to some be seem a very idiotic post and there is prolly already a thread on this, regarding the missile changes. I for one a very experianced raven pilot am somewhat disappointed with ccp and thier comprehension of basic physics. In my opinion missiles where the only weapons balanced in the game. Were they powerful...yes, was it gaurenteed dmg...yes. nice ranges...yes. and they had aweakness that guns didnt have...If you had alot of torps or cruise missiles coming your way you could always dodge em or warp away and come back. Mean while even the most modest hits from some guns would deliever you a very sharp blow that torpedoes couldnt match....INSTANTLY Now i know guns needed some love, but hitting a frig for 68 dmg with a torpedo to me seems ridiculous. and ill of course tell you why. basic physics tells us that if i toss a firework at a fat guy he will get burned just as if i threw it at a little guy, in opposite turn if a city gets nuked the fat guy will get just as cooked as the little guy. SIZE SHOULD NOT MATTER. If people where complaining because of pvp, that thier frigs where being instantly blown away by ravens...I recommend afterburners of mwds...you can out run curise missiles and torpedoes. especially interceptors. If you couldnt train teh skills to do so. Again it is a shame that the raven cant be what it once was and that the gentleman at ccp have obviously smoked far to much pot and drank far to much to achieve such a retarded conclusion that a torp hits a battleship the damage is the same where as when that same torp hits the smallest ibis or velator, it doesnt even require a paint job. On behalf of all raven pilots in eve i congradulate the devs on messing up the ONLY WEAPON TYPE THAT ACTUALLY WORKED PROPLERLY.
Dark Ninja	Posted - 2005.07.22 10:27:00 - [2] yup ccp are a bunch of idiots
Keta Min	Posted - 2005.07.22 10:33:00 - [3] Originally by: O'Ren I'Shii This may to some be seem a very idiotic post very well observed! ibtl?
Meehan	Posted - 2005.07.22 10:38:00 - [4] I'm puzzled. First you complain you can no longer easily kill frigates, then you tell frigate pilots it used to be easy avoiding being killed? My, such logic.
Fred0	Posted - 2005.07.22 10:41:00 - [5] RL analogies are not applicable. And throwing an explosive at a fat or thin guy in todays world bears very little relevance to shooting missiles at interceptors travelling 4k / sec in an imaginary universe.
Ortu Konsinni	Posted - 2005.07.22 10:42:00 - [6] You fail to understand that EVE isn't a realistic game, nor is it supposed to be. The missile changes, while they annoy me and a bunch of other players greatly, were needed for balance. Realism is irrelevant in EVE. Otherwise our ships couldn't fly at all the way they fly right now, due to simple physics (can't stop your ship without applying reverse thrust equal to forward thrust, for example -- don't correct me on terminology if need be, physics aren't my field of expertise).
Kurt Meyer	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:23:00 - [7] "Balance" I keep reading this word in every response to a "Missile" post. How is it balanced when a t1 frigate standing still can take a hit from the biggest ship mounted warhead in the game. Not just one hit but several. Is that Balance? I think it's foolishness. When I started this game if a BS showed up on the battle field you would run unless you were in a BS or your corp mates were close at hand with enough fire power to take one on. Now it just doesn't make sense. Just my 2isk
Shadow Vice	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:29:00 - [8] Umm any of you missle moaners used target painters recentally apparently they are uber for you guys since the last patch I do agree about the frig takeing less damage while still then moveing though shold be the other way round shurely And you tried killing frigs with Large turrets its just as hard most of the time
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:30:00 - [9] get over it
Mr MadCap	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:31:00 - [10] Edited by: Mr MadCap on 22/07/2005 11:32:07 we've been overthis: the raven was owning everything, which made everyone fly ravens. Its boring when everone flys the same thing, besides alot of other things were missing, like tech II launchers and missile skills, of they gave the new skills and launchers out without a nerf - do you know what would happen?!?! huh do you?!?!? Thats right, everyone would not only be in a raven still, they'd all be laffing there titz off. like W0lverine sez, get over it.... (and get doin some missile skillz ffs)
Harlequin D'Earth	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:32:00 - [11] If you are looking for realism why not complain that you must keep your mwd/ab on to sustain the same speed when there is no friction in space... why you can fire a projectile and not get shunted backwards at the same speed as the projectile travels forwards... so on
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Mr MadCap we've been overthis: the raven was owning everything, which made everyone fly ravens. Its boring when everone flys the same thing, besides alot of other things were missing, like tech II launchers and missile skills, of they gave the new skills and launchers out without a nerf - do you know what would happen?!?! huh do you?!?!? Thats right, everyone would not only be in a raven still, they'd all be laffing there titz off. I like ****
Mr MadCap	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Mr MadCap on 22/07/2005 11:34:04 Originally by: W0lverine Originally by: Mr MadCap we've been overthis: the raven was owning everything, which made everyone fly ravens. Its boring when everone flys the same thing, besides alot of other things were missing, like tech II launchers and missile skills, of they gave the new skills and launchers out without a nerf - do you know what would happen?!?! huh do you?!?!? Thats right, everyone would not only be in a raven still, they'd all be laffing there titz off. I like **** Amen to that brudda
Hellraiza666	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:36:00 - [14] Originally by: O'Ren I'Shii Edited by: O''Ren I''Shii on 22/07/2005 10:23:30 This may to some be seem a very idiotic post and there is prolly already a thread on this, regarding the missile changes. I for one a very experianced raven pilot am somewhat disappointed with ccp and thier comprehension of basic physics. In my opinion missiles where the only weapons balanced in the game. Were they powerful...yes, was it gaurenteed dmg...yes. nice ranges...yes. and they had aweakness that guns didnt have...If you had alot of torps or cruise missiles coming your way you could always dodge em or warp away and come back. Mean while even the most modest hits from some guns would deliever you a very sharp blow that torpedoes couldnt match....INSTANTLY Now i know guns needed some love, but hitting a frig for 68 dmg with a torpedo to me seems ridiculous. and ill of course tell you why. basic physics tells us that if i toss a firework at a fat guy he will get burned just as if i threw it at a little guy, in opposite turn if a city gets nuked the fat guy will get just as cooked as the little guy. SIZE SHOULD NOT MATTER. If people where complaining because of pvp, that thier frigs where being instantly blown away by ravens...I recommend afterburners of mwds...you can out run curise missiles and torpedoes. especially interceptors. If you couldnt train teh skills to do so. Again it is a shame that the raven cant be what it once was and that the gentleman at ccp have obviously smoked far to much pot and drank far to much to achieve such a retarded conclusion that a torp hits a battleship the damage is the same where as when that same torp hits the smallest ibis or velator, it doesnt even require a paint job. On behalf of all raven pilots in eve i congradulate the devs on messing up the ONLY WEAPON TYPE THAT ACTUALLY WORKED PROPLERLY. If your so experienced then u wud realise they were too good to be true. Just cuz u can't own a frig with BS size weapons, try hitting a frig with a 1400mm at 5km, or a mega beam, ye, u cant, nuff said really... and as some1 else said, GET OVER IT -------------------------------------------- In War There Are No Runners Up... Image by Denrace
DWCougho	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Hellraiza666 Originally by: O'Ren I'Shii Edited by: O''Ren I''Shii on 22/07/2005 10:23:30 This may to some be seem a very idiotic post and there is prolly already a thread on this, regarding the missile changes. I for one a very experianced raven pilot am somewhat disappointed with ccp and thier comprehension of basic physics. In my opinion missiles where the only weapons balanced in the game. Were they powerful...yes, was it gaurenteed dmg...yes. nice ranges...yes. and they had aweakness that guns didnt have...If you had alot of torps or cruise missiles coming your way you could always dodge em or warp away and come back. Mean while even the most modest hits from some guns would deliever you a very sharp blow that torpedoes couldnt match....INSTANTLY Now i know guns needed some love, but hitting a frig for 68 dmg with a torpedo to me seems ridiculous. and ill of course tell you why. basic physics tells us that if i toss a firework at a fat guy he will get burned just as if i threw it at a little guy, in opposite turn if a city gets nuked the fat guy will get just as cooked as the little guy. SIZE SHOULD NOT MATTER. If people where complaining because of pvp, that thier frigs where being instantly blown away by ravens...I recommend afterburners of mwds...you can out run curise missiles and torpedoes. especially interceptors. If you couldnt train teh skills to do so. Again it is a shame that the raven cant be what it once was and that the gentleman at ccp have obviously smoked far to much pot and drank far to much to achieve such a retarded conclusion that a torp hits a battleship the damage is the same where as when that same torp hits the smallest ibis or velator, it doesnt even require a paint job. On behalf of all raven pilots in eve i congradulate the devs on messing up the ONLY WEAPON TYPE THAT ACTUALLY WORKED PROPLERLY. If your so experienced then u wud realise they were too good to be true. Just cuz u can't own a frig with BS size weapons, try hitting a frig with a 1400mm at 5km, or a mega beam, ye, u cant, nuff said really... and as some1 else said, GET OVER IT and that was the whole problem with missiles. well put.
JoCool	Posted - 2005.07.22 11:54:00 - [16] Oh buhuu
Porro	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:12:00 - [17] I thought the idea was that the missile explodes near the ship creating a shockwave, small objects wont absorb as much of the shockwave, but bigger things will. At least thats what I think it was
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:15:00 - [18] Edited by: Vee Bot on 22/07/2005 12:16:04 Originally by: Porro I thought the idea was that the missile explodes near the ship creating a shockwave, small objects wont absorb as much of the shockwave, but bigger things will. At least thats what I think it was Thats the idea, but if it were 'realistic' like that, a torp going off next to a frig would not only dmg it a fair bit, but it would fling the little ship into next week!! rofl that would make for some funny frig defence, not being able to kill them, but lobbing the frigs out to 70kms until they get close again. ------------------ Remember that your Unique, like everyone else.
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Hellraiza666 Originally by: O'Ren I'Shii Edited by: O''Ren I''Shii on 22/07/2005 10:23:30 If your so experienced then u wud realise they were too good to be true. Just cuz u can't own a frig with BS size weapons, try hitting a frig with a 1400mm at 5km, or a mega beam, ye, u cant, nuff said really... and as some1 else said, GET OVER IT The issue isn't whether a 1400mm can hit a frig at 5km. I have hit a webifier at 70km with a 425mm for 100+ and my gunnery skills currently leave a lot to be desired. To do this I had ONE optical tracking computer fitted. I can hit a webby at any range with 2 tps on it and a web holding it still for around 40 with a cruise missile. This is with guidance 4 tnp 3 war up 3, others don't really matter as they are rof/range modifiers only. Oh and sig foc 2. So it takes 3mods to not even get half what I can get with one mod and low/medium gunnery skills. I'm posting this because I know people with better gunnery than me can get better hits than that. Now you tell me its balanced and I'll believe you when I only need one mod to achieve the same effect with missiles.
Quaren	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:27:00 - [20] yea if you fire a missle at a house or the pentagon you still do the same amount of damage... I'll give you that... what you seem to fail to realize is that that isn't the case in the frig bs thing.... hitting a frig with a cruise would be like hitting a f16 fighter with a tomahawk missle! impossible unless its standing still. but since its already programed into the game that missles always hit it was probably alot less work to have missles do crap damage instead to small and fast moving things.
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Quaren but since its already programed into the game that missles always hit it was probably alot less work to have missles do crap damage instead to small and fast moving things. That is exactly why, unless you want your big missiles to totally miss, cos in all reality thats what would happen. And CCP only made missiles MORE like turrets, they are infact not turrets, nor do they have the same advantages/disadvantages. ------------------ Remember that your Unique, like everyone else.
Grey Area	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:36:00 - [22] Edited by: Grey Area on 22/07/2005 12:36:42 Originally by: Shadow Vice Umm any of you missle moaners used target painters recentally apparently they are uber for you guys since the last patch Simply untrue..they add about 10% to missile hits (I have VERY good target painter skills thank you), but they add ZERO to torp hits...whilst at the same time adding 25% to turret hits of all sizes. Balanced? ========================================= * I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * =========================================
Phoenicia	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:37:00 - [23] Missiles were the only weapon balanced? Then what were they balanced to? Game balance means everything has an equal pro/con status, so that everything is equally effective. You cannot say one weapons is the only one balanced. Right now they are balanced. They used to be win-buttons. And don¦t think I¦m saying this cause I fly an Apoc. I fly a Raven myself and almost started bashing my skull against the wall for doing 18 damage to an NPC frig. As for physics, it DOES make sense. Now inties can be like the um... you know, the end-scenes in bad action movies where the good guy drives ahead of an explosion. Cause that¦s what happens. Also, because frigs are so much smaller, most of the energy caused by the explosion passes by the frig. ---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:40:00 - [24] Edited by: Muad ''dib on 22/07/2005 12:41:13 Originally by: Grey Area Edited by: Grey Area on 22/07/2005 12:36:42 Originally by: Shadow Vice Umm any of you missle moaners used target painters recentally apparently they are uber for you guys since the last patch Simply untrue..they add about 10% to missile hits (I have VERY good target painter skills thank you), but they add ZERO to torp hits...whilst at the same time adding 25% to turret hits of all sizes. Balanced? 25% CHANCE TO HIT for turrets 10% dmg for missiles if the target is move to quick, below optimal, out of falloff or any one of the other reason you may miss with your turret.... you still miss.....10% all the time seams okay to me
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Vee Bot Originally by: Quaren but since its already programed into the game that missles always hit it was probably alot less work to have missles do crap damage instead to small and fast moving things. That is exactly why, unless you want your big missiles to totally miss, cos in all reality thats what would happen. And CCP only made missiles MORE like turrets, they are infact not turrets, nor do they have the same advantages/disadvantages. Actually I don't mind if an Inty outruns my missile, but when I have it standing still and a "uber"???? target painter on it I expect it to get blown to pieces. To do a minimal damage incresase at the expense of 3 modules designed to affect said damage is wrong. I fully back Grey Area on this.
Number 9	Posted - 2005.07.22 12:58:00 - [26] I'm not a missle user myself but it was my undertanding that if you trained up your missle skills then they actually did more damage, even to small targets.
Belshamarothx	Posted - 2005.07.22 13:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Number 9 I'm not a missle user myself but it was my undertanding that if you trained up your missle skills then they actually did more damage, even to small targets. In theory! In practice? The smallest ships can now substantially tank any missiles for a much longer time. I can destroy an elite mercenary fighter with 2 125mm in the same time or quicker than my 6cruise with 2tps on, and as for wingmen? well I get more dam/hit (barely) with cruise than either heavies or lights but it still takes 5+ volleys.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:05:00 - [28] Think the missles changes are fine in most respects. Where the forumla lacks I belive is when a ship is webbed. I can understand if a torp/cruser missles only does 10% damamge if the frigs is at its full speed. Missles changes work very wel for this I think its great. However if they Ship gets to close and gets webbed from my expireance anyway the torps/cruser missles still only do 10% damage or something like that. This is total wrong in my oppinon. If I'm webbing a ship so its going less than 200m/s My torps or missles should hit for full affect no mater what the size of the ship is. The ship is not going anyware fast so the missles/torp expolosion is going to light up that whole ship he/she will not be out running the explosion. Just my oppinon. This is the only aspect that I think is a problem with the missles.
Pompeius	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:44:00 - [29] Originally by: O'Ren I'Shii Edited by: O''Ren I''Shii on 22/07/2005 10:23:30 This may to some be seem a very idiotic post and there is prolly already a thread on this, regarding the missile changes. I for one a very experianced raven pilot am somewhat disappointed with ccp and thier comprehension of basic physics. In my opinion missiles where the only weapons balanced in the game. Were they powerful...yes, was it gaurenteed dmg...yes. nice ranges...yes. and they had aweakness that guns didnt have...If you had alot of torps or cruise missiles coming your way you could always dodge em or warp away and come back. Mean while even the most modest hits from some guns would deliever you a very sharp blow that torpedoes couldnt match....INSTANTLY Now i know guns needed some love, but hitting a frig for 68 dmg with a torpedo to me seems ridiculous. and ill of course tell you why. basic physics tells us that if i toss a firework at a fat guy he will get burned just as if i threw it at a little guy, in opposite turn if a city gets nuked the fat guy will get just as cooked as the little guy. SIZE SHOULD NOT MATTER. If people where complaining because of pvp, that thier frigs where being instantly blown away by ravens...I recommend afterburners of mwds...you can out run curise missiles and torpedoes. especially interceptors. If you couldnt train teh skills to do so. Again it is a shame that the raven cant be what it once was and that the gentleman at ccp have obviously smoked far to much pot and drank far to much to achieve such a retarded conclusion that a torp hits a battleship the damage is the same where as when that same torp hits the smallest ibis or velator, it doesnt even require a paint job. On behalf of all raven pilots in eve i congradulate the devs on messing up the ONLY WEAPON TYPE THAT ACTUALLY WORKED PROPLERLY. Go cry to mommy, carebear.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:04:00 - [30] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/07/2005 15:07:57 Ahhh yes the daily missile whine thread. Excellent, I see the usual suspects on both sides... hmm rollin isnt here yet. Btw I think I might steal your old sig because its absense from the forums seems to be causing a lot problems. Well not really in this case but god have you read the crime and punishment forum lately... Originally by: Grey Area Simply untrue..they add about 10% to missile hits (I have VERY good target painter skills thank you), but they add ZERO to torp hits...whilst at the same time adding 25% to turret hits of all sizes. Balanced? Ahh, I see grey has already arrived to spout ignorance as gospel. Ahh well some things never change. Originally by: Sochin (and made famous by rollin) CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to

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